posted
I think I will soon quit television in favour of video games and books. As I don't have cable. I don't want it. Any show I need I can download such as Sopranos Queer as Folk South Park
3 of the only shows worth watching. I like Bernie Mac a lot, but other than that, television is going downhill And this Swan show has the most offensive premise ever! Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
That was an incredible show. It seems if your show is new and can in any way be described as "intelligent", you should steer FAR clear of FOX.
After killing my beloved Firefly, it wasn't a big surprise that they shot Wonderfalls in the foot and then went for the jugular when it didn't get ratings in the worst two time slots on prime time television.
I don't know why they even bother to order pilots just to kill them off before they even get half a season out. Seems to me the smart thing would be to give these Thursday/Friday night shows a full season and see if they can build an audience, considering how low ratings for these time slots are.
In any case, Wonderfalls was simply fantastic, and I'll miss it.
As for the HBO/Showtime fare... Can't abide by it. It's gotten a very snobbish air over the past couple of years, very liberal "we're great art just 'cause we do everything we can to spit in the face of traditional morality!" type stuff. Their shows strike me as 'taking risks' just for the sake of doing so, not because it's an honest part of the story. And then they act like it makes them some sort of "TV literature elite".
We've got enough snobbish literati in the world of literature without TV jumping on the bandwagon.
quote:As for the HBO/Showtime fare... Can't abide by it. It's gotten a very snobbish air over the past couple of years, very liberal "we're great art just 'cause we do everything we can to spit in the face of traditional morality!" type stuff. Their shows strike me as 'taking risks' just for the sake of doing so, not because it's an honest part of the story. And then they act like it makes them some sort of "TV literature elite".
Heh. Like what, exactly? I'd assume if you're complaining that they ignore "traditional morality," whatever that is, you're complaining that they show homosexuals in a non-evil-sexual-deviant-pervert-pedophile light such as in Queer As Folk. Am I right?
Please. Tell me I'm not.
Posts: 641 | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Posts from Tim Minear, executive producer of Wonderfalls, re: the show's cancellation. Posting mostly because I think Tim is a hoopy frood who really knows where his towel is, but also because it's an interesting insight into the way TVland works.
quote: Tim Minear - Apr 3, 2004 5:56:32 pm PST
Well, not sure what to tell ya'll -- but we're cancelled. Effective at once. The cow creamer will be silent this Thursday and forever forward. Once we recover from the not-shock, Todd, Bryan and I will see if there's some venue in which to air the remaining episodes. As I have said from the start, the thirteen taken as a whole tell a story and go to a place, so a run of this "limited" series would not be unsatisfying elsewhere. It's a question as to whether the studio will want to invest in a DVD release of a failed series. Maybe the episodes will sit in a warehouse someplace with that sled and the arc of the covenant.
Thanks for all the support and enthusiasm.
Tim
quote:Tim Minear - Apr 3, 2004 6:25:00 pm PST
I wonder if enough people will buy a DVD of a show on the basis of four aired episodes to make the sale worthwhile.
I predict this is what the studio will say. And I predict there will be no DVD release. I also predicted that we wouldn't be on again after Thursday. O my prophetic soul!
quote:Tim Minear - Apr 3, 2004 8:03:38 pm PST
Tim, is there anything we can do? I've never participated in a "save our show campaign," but I adore this show and I'll do anything to save it. Who can we write to about this? What should we ask for? This show is excellent and deserves to be shown in full, somehow.
In terms of "saving" the show? Not really anything you can do. The network is a non-starter here. The studio, 20th, is possibly a different matter. If they get the sense that people would buy a complete series DVD set, it might happen that the series becomes available in future. But please don't waste your time or money on trying to revive "Wonderfalls" for a pick-up with Fox. Ain't gonna happen.
When we first began this series, I was asked by many why I would put my trust in the network that mishandled "Firefly" so terribly. Well, because it felt different to me. Initially, there was real excitement and belief in "Wonderfalls" at the network. My feeling with "Firefly" was always that since they didn't much like or understand it from the brilliant pilot, that we were kind of doomed. I felt that if a network didn't believe in a show, no matter its potential, that it couldn't launch it or sell it with any measure of success.
And again, "Wonderfalls" felt totally different to me. At first. Then, at some point in the process, I could sense an erosion in enthusiasm. Even as we were finding our footing and delivering to them some really exceptional episodes (ones you never got to see!), things got chilly. Then they couldn't seem to find any place on the schedule for us. Then they did... and it was Friday night. I tell you now, the moment that was announced, I knew it was over. They were dumping us into Friday nights and that was that. When the smashing reviews started coming in... and coming and coming and coming... I think they didn't know what to think or do. You have but one chance to make a good first impression. But they'd given up on the show before it ever aired, and even when the lion's share of critics were hailing the show, it was too late for them to backtrack and launch the series with any kind of conviction. My "Firefly" experience was repeating itself. I think it was USA Today that said this may be "the wrong show, in the wrong season, on the wrong night, on the wrong network." Just so. I do think market forces were at work here, too. Not just incompetence.
I don't know if any network could have brought an audience to this show. Certainly no network that dumped it on Friday night, promoted it in such as way as to try and trick people into thinking it was "Dawson's Creek," or that didn't, apparantly, agree with the things the critics were saying about it. I do think any network wants whatever they pay for to be a success. I don't think they MEAN to strangle something in the crib. I know that the next time I shop something to a network, I'm going to hope to find a network that understands and believes in the thing they ordered. And if they thought it looked good on the menu, I'd hope they'd still have a taste for it once it got to the table.
There's a whole 'nother half of this post... but I deleted it.
Twice burned, me.
quote:Tim Minear - Apr 3, 2004 8:32:25 pm PST
TV's a lecture On how to repeat your Mistakes
quote: Tim Minear - Apr 3, 2004 9:07:34 pm PST
Then, at some point in the process, I could sense an erosion in enthusiasm. Even as we were finding our footing and delivering to them some really exceptional episodes (ones you never got to see!), things got chilly.
I'm truly curious why this happened. Did they think they were getting something else?
Um, I don't think so. Hard to say. As I've mentioned here before, the network is broken into so many factions, that there may be strong support in one group, and in others, not so much.
Did it test badly?
Yes.
Or was there some key change in higher-ups? I know with film studios, that last one can absolutely doom a film to a pro-forma release and a quick death at the box office. And did they not bother to tell you what they thought was wrong (whether it would have left the show the same if you'd done it is a whole other issue)?
No. Sandy Grushow left and we suddenly got an airdate. I don't know what Sandy's opinion of the show was before he left, though I do know that he didn't like one non-linear episode, but then he never does. He didn't much like "Out Of Gas" because of that. But he was one of the guys who supported the development of the show.
I do know that one very high-up didn't like the show at all. We're also talking about a network that has bigger problems than their one quirky no-clue-how-to-sell-but-well-reviewed-drama-comedy. As shit hit fans throughout the year, anything that didn't seem sure-thing and comfortable was abandoned by former allies.
hehe. Shit hit fans. That should be the new network slogan: "FOX! Where the shit hits the fans."
quote: Tim Minear - Apr 3, 2004 11:06:43 pm PST
Tomorrow morning I'm gonna sit down and figure out exactly what Fox needs in terms of what's missing from their scripted programming. No joke. I'll approach it scientifically and specifically. I'll create the hit pilot with franchise legs that will allow them to build big in the scripted area in such a way that they'll be able to relax a little and nurture slower building shows. Something that would give them some stability. That's what I'll create.
Then I'll sell it ABC.
Heh. I love Tim and want to have his babies.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I knew I shouldn't have watched it. I knew it was dead when I heard it got Firefly's time slot. Everything dies there.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Jaye Tyler is a disaffected, overeducated twenty-something who works retail and lives in a trailer park. She lacks direction and ambition, content to slack her way through life.
One day she has a "near-death experience" (she chokes on her sandwich during her lunch break). Shortly after, inanimate objects start talking to her. The deformed wax lion from the Mold-a-Rama tells her not to give the customer their refund. The brass monkey statue wants her to tell her sister she loves her. It's never made clear where the voices are coming from. Is it her own imagination, or some higher power?
Jaye tries to ignore the critters, but they just won't stop yapping. Finally, out of some desperation for some piece and quiet, she does what the critters want her to do. And when she does, she finds that she has changed someone's life, often for the better.
The show had snark. Lots of it. Jaye can be harsh and crude. It's also a very funny show.
posted
Stupid, stupid, stupid.... But then again, what can you expect froma network that airs tripe like "The Simple Life"? I also will miss WF. Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Heh. Like what, exactly? I'd assume if you're complaining that they ignore "traditional morality," whatever that is, you're complaining that they show homosexuals in a non-evil-sexual-deviant-pervert-pedophile light such as in Queer As Folk. Am I right?
Please. Tell me I'm not.
Take a deep breath. Relax. May I suggest a nice walk in the sun?
quote:As an act of protest, I just went out and bought the Firefly set. Have never seen an ep, but I've heard nothing but praise.
Also, it'll get me prepared to see Serenity when it's released in theaters.
You won't regret it. I can honestly say that, after seeing the scant half a season that was produced, Firefly is my favorite television show of all time. Hilarious and touching at times, a great premise, and some of the best dialogue ever heard on TV. Don't get much better than that.
Posts: 44 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
*wonders how Taal escaped seeing Firefly at Wenchcon, when it was played several times*
You know Mr. Minear was involved with Firefly, right? He wrote "Out of Gas", which is my favorite episode of the series.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah. I think most TV execs are effed in the head... The good shows get the axe, the worst shows get the axe and the middling shows survive-- the ones that are not intelligent or witty enough to make most people feel stupid, but still manage to be fun. Or shows that find a big enough audience to become pop-culture icons like the Simpsons and the X-Files.
Sad really.
I think the next reality show should be TV network execs competing in a fear-factor-like setting, with the losers being publicly sterilized.
I'd also like to add Farscape to the list of undeservedly dead shows, BTW.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I need to get some money so I can pay Netflix so I can get more Farscape. I. Want. More. Farscape. In the meantime I'll have to settle for watching my season 1 DVDs again.
I've spent most of today downloading various Wonderfalls items, so I can make some kick-butt VCDs. Yes, I am an obsessed fan.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
xnera: Do you have both the pre-release AND aired version of the pilot? I do the aired version actually has two additional scenes, but the pre-air version had basically just a couple extra lines of dialogue that were 'too much' for FOX (is that possible?)
Posts: 2689 | Registered: Apr 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
No, I don't have the pre-release version, though I've heard of the scene differences.
Netflix is awesome. You have this queue, see, that you add wanted DVDs to. Ny queue has almost 100 items in it. They send you whatever is on top of your queue, you watch it, you send it back, they send you the next item. My subscription allows me to have three DVDs out at a time. No mailing fees, and you can keep the DVDs for as long as you want. I've had a disc of Band of Brothers out since November. Need to watch that. Anyway, their selection is great. I joined Netflix because I wanted to get into Farscape and couldn't find the DVDs at Blockbuster. And I've been very impressed with how quickly the DVDs arrive.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Apparantly there may still be hope for Wonderfalls - on the WB. There's an address listed to send letters of support for Wonderfalls to. Let's get crackin', folks!
posted
I don't even understand how first-season ratings work. The only people who will watch the first episode are anyone who happened to get distracted during channel surfing between shows they already know. Then you have to assume the story is already compelling enough that word of mouth can begin. Then you have to assume that WoM will trickle to Nielson houses in just a week or so. As a capper I stay relatively current with what's on the airwaves, but I certainly never hear about a show until it's generated a buzz among viewers, which takes at least one season, unless there is heavy advertising (see: HBO).
It would be like judging box office hits by the first weekend alone, with no advertising or reviews beforehand. Completely irrelevant statistics, obviously, unless a hot actor/actress is known to be involved (extremely rare on TV).
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I love Wonderfalls, and I'm glad it still has a chance, but I don't know about it as a WB show.
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote: Todd Fuller on WTAG Morning Show... this is a repost from Buffistas
"FOX Studios has stated that if another network is willing to pick up Wonderfalls, they will allow the show to be picked up, and currently they have a firm commitment from one of the netlets(he didn't say which one, but it would be something along the lines of USA, TNT or the like) to air all the episodes as a 'limited series' which would mean it wouldn't get a second season, but everyone's hard work would be seen." He indicated that they are still looking to see if one of the networks or netlets would be willing to pick it up with the possibility of a second season, but if not, this could be a very good thing for Wonderfalls and then would make a later DVD release a much bigger possibility than it is now.
Okay, now I'm excited. I had heard of the show being shopped around (from AICN and Wanda) but I didn't quite trust the information because Tim wasn't saying anything. But hearing it from Bryan Fuller... it's gotta be real. Yay!
Also, I read the shooting scripts for some of the unaired episodes. I have now gone from liking the show to NEEDING to see the rest of it. I guess at heart I'm really an arc girl.
Also, would you know of any way of getting a hold of the Show Bible for Wonderfalls and/or Dead Like Me (the prior Bryan Fuller venture)? hell, I'd love to find copies of the teleplays (not fan-transcripts)for Dead Like Me as well.
The PDF ones are slightly more complete at this time, but shrift is working on converting them to HTML, so eventually both sites will have all the scripts that are available at this time.
I would love to see a show bible for the show. I can't recall seeing any show bible online ever, though. If I come across one I'll post the link here.
Don't know about Dead Like Me scripts. Have you tried Drew's script site? Personally, I'm looking for Farscape scripts, which I haven't been able to find anywhere.
Hmm. I should look for the Firefly scripts while I'm at it. I've read Heart of Gold, and I had The Message and Trash, but lost them in my hard drive crash. Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
I miss it more than almost any other show that has been cancelled. At least with Freak & Geeks we got 9-10 episodes.
I thought the pilot was quite good. The second episode was not bad -- although I was bothered by a nagging feeling that it was too early to do the "double" episode. But the third episode with the runaway nun was what blew me away. It was lol funny and touching while maintaining its acerbic dialogue and absurd plotlines. A true gem.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Tim Minear - Apr 20, 2004 3:01:32 pm PDT Here's the long and mostly short of it --
From what I understand, and this is by no means assured, the WB is going to screen an episode of "Wonderfalls" when they screen their pilots. We of course would hope they'd love what see so much that they'd add "Wonderfalls" to their schedule. Unlikely, but that's a dream.
When speaking about "netlet" Bryan was talking about a cable situation, not unlike Bravo picking up Keen Eddie and airing produced episodes. So the chances are fair to good that our 13 will see the light of some day. I'm still angling for a DVD release as well.
I need to read the others first - I'm reading the ones for the eps I've already seen first, and studying and comparing them to the final aired version. Then I'll begin reading the un-aired scripts!
Posts: 2689 | Registered: Apr 2000
| IP: Logged |
I've been hearing mixed things about the chances Wonderfalls has of being picked up. We heard that the WB was going to review it for consideration. Tim said he was going to show them the pilot and one or two other episodes, probably Lovesick Ass. But a day or two after he said that, I read somewhere that the WB wasn't considering it at all. So I am very over it all.
Not Wonderfalls news, but kinda related... a friend of mine recently posted a link to Dead or Alive a Firefly script that wasn't filmed (other scripts can be found here. I heard at the Buffistas that for some reason it was decided not to shoot it, and that portions of the script were incorporated into other episodes throughout the season. It's interesting reading. I have the same fascination for "Corrupt", an early Angel script that was canned, and for the first drafts of Star Wars. It's really fun to see how the stories change and evolve, and to figure out why certain decisions were made.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Things keep going back and forth on wonderfalls one minute WB is looking at it, and another minute they are not. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens over the summer. It does seem to be a good fit for the WB, but you never know. I do hope it gets picked up though, I think it had potential. It is annoying when a show like Wonderfalls not only gets canned, but gets canned with a lot of filmed, yet unaired episodes.
Overall, I thought this year was a rough year for good TV shows.
I also kind of liked century city (a law show set in the year 2030). It got canned rather quickly though due to poor ratings. I think part of the problem with that show is that one of its first few shows got knocked offline by a Bush speech and then rescheduled for a different day. That kind of thing right at the beginning makes it tough to find an audience. Another show that I wished had made it was The Handler. I thought they had a good concept, and a good cast…but I guess it was not meant to be. I believe it was another fox show, but it has been off the air to long for me to remember.
Has anyone looked into the new shows for next year? I looked at some of what networks were looking into, and was not very impressed. I thought the freshman shows this year were a lot better quality wise (though their ratings were not great, which lead to a lot of cancellations). Who knows, one day soon all that we will have to watch is crappy reality TV
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
the aired version actually has two additional scenes, but the pre-air version had basically just a couple extra lines of dialogue that were 'too much' for FOX (is that possible?)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I had heard of the show being shopped around (from AICN and Wanda) but I didn't quite trust the information because Tim wasn't saying anything. But hearing it from Bryan Fuller... it's gotta be real. Yay!![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
over it all.
