posted
Morrowind is, without a doubt, the best CRPG I've ever played. It's more immersive than other CRPGs I've played; I find myself wanting to get my character in out of a wind storm or the rain, which is amazing to me. When I was robbing a temporarily vacant Mage's Guild, my wife happened to walk into the room, opening a door behind me to do so. I nearly leapt out of my chair. It's the closest I've ever seen to a CRPG that actually causes you to roll play. It's amazing.
And yet, there's definitely room for improvement. Here's a list of things that I'd like to see incorporated into the next chapter in the Elder Scrolls franchise:
*A text parser. I would like to be able to walk up to a character in a city and be able to ask them where to locate this or that shop, prison, compound, or whatever, and have them give me directions. If Infocom could create a decent text parser back in the 80s, I'd imagine that Bethesda could create something worlds better now, wouldn't you?
*Slightly more detailed, more accurate weather. I love that Morrowind has a dynamic weather system, but I'd like it if it were a little more detailed. Before a rainstorm, I'd like to see the wind pick up sometimes, blowing trees, causing pennants to flutter, making those cool bamboo windchimes in the Ashlander settlements move like crazy. After it's been raining really hard, I'd like to see puddles on the ground, see the muddy ground get churned up by my feet, be able to spot tracks, and the like. If it rained too hard and too long, I'd like there to be the possibility of flooding. I'd like to see rivers rising in their banks. It'd be cool if they also had the possibility of tornados, earthquakes, forest fires, and the like, but if that didn't fit into the game world I wouldn't miss it.
*An environment that you can interact with more completely. I'd like to be able to take an axe to a door if I feel like it, or blow out candles, or stack crates, or move them out of the way, or set fire to them. Or set fires period. If somebody is charging up some stairs at me, and there's a keg handy, I'd like to be able to roll it at them. Things like that.
*I'd like NPCs to respond differently to me depending on my dress and manor. It was a surprise to me, back when I was playing the second Elder Scrolls game, Daggerfall, that NPCs didn't react differently to me when I stripped off all my character's clothes and went into shops, bars, and the like. I was even more surprised when something like that wasn't incorporated into Morrowind. How hard could that possibly be to script? Also, I'd like it if characters would respond differently to you when you were wearing tattered common clothes than then do when you're wearing extravagant clothes. It would add a whole element of disguise to the game. If you were trying to, say, woo people at court, you'd have to dress up. If you were wanting to avoid notice on the street, you'd dress in a nondescript fashion. Also, I'd like it if people would react more hostilely toward the PC if you approached them with weapon drawn.
I know that there are some other improvements that have occurred to me, but right now I can't remember any of them. Anybody else have any other enhancements they'd care to add to the wishlist? I thought I might email Bethesda with our ideas, if we generate a bunch of them. I don't know if that will do any good or not, but it can't hurt.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Actually, I thought characters in Daggerfall DID respond differently if you were naked; moreover, I thought that different types of clothes gave you bonuses and penalties to reactions from different factions.
Of course, this may just have been the idealized Daggerfall of my memories. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Well, it's been long enough that either of us could be misremembering, but I *think* I can remember being surprised when my character's streaking didn't attract any attention.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I think that except for one of the mini-quests within the main quests, better clothes just have higher enchant values and no other bonuses. I have to say, that your first suggestion was the thing that bugged me the most in the game, and your second suggestion was the thing that bugged me the second most. The others sound good, though I'm not sure how much it would matter to me that much it would be nice.
As for the weather, the two things that I didn't like was how fast it happened. It was one frame sunny and nice and the next one windy and raining. Also, if the wind becomes an issue, I would like it if it could be blocked but even if you just treat the buildings as shadows (in terms of blocked wind patterns) that could take significant processing power so I understand why it doesn't. However, it does remind you your playing a game when standing directly behind a wall you're stll hit with wind just as hard as any where else.
My suggestion: climbing. It seemed that if you couldn't jump it you couldn't get over it even if you were taller than whatever it was you were trying to get over. I think it would be nice if you could use your arms. I don't even need the ability to scale walls or anything, but just hoist myself up onto a ledge or a wall, or out of the water without stairs would be really nice.
posted
Yeah, the ability to climb was one of the things I had been thinking about, but was drawing a blank on. Same goes for crouching and crawling.
I'd actually like to see climbing made into a skill, like acrobatics is. I'd like it if you could buy pitons, rock climbing hammers, and the like. I'd like it if you could use rope, tying it around a rock or a piton and lowering yourself down a cliff, wall, pit, or whatever. I'd like to see swimming be a skill as well.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I agree, Hobbes, that it would be nice if the wind could be blocked, but that it would take enough processing power that I'm not sure they'd do it. Still, you never know; it was what, six years between Daggerfall and Morrowind? Imagine what kind of hardware they'll be designing for with the next Elder Scrolls game. It might not be too demanding after all.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
The text parser for the old Infocom games was good, especially for its time, but it's really nowhere even close to a real speech interpreter. As far as I know, that involves some pretty heavy AI and nobody's really there yet. Still, I think we probably could improve on Infocom's system of recognizing a few key words and sentence structures.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Text parsing has greatly improved. More importantly, its "easy" to come up with an extensive list of questions a character might want answered that a NPC might answer, then after coming up with likely matches for the character's question based on keyword, ask the character which one they meant.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
They do act differently, in that they say stuff like "From your outfit it looks like your prosperous" or the opposite and I think it give minor points in the index that judges how much they like you, but I think walking around buck naked (or really close) should be much different from walking around in the finiest clothes on the planet, not just 2 points out of 100.
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Hobbes: If you walk around naked, you can talk with people who have a '0' relationship with you. In addition, in-the-buffness provides you with a boost to your personality.
posted
Yeah, I think the mobility angle could definitely use some work, such as climbing and jumping. They could lump acrobatics and climbing into one skill. Also, the ordinators definitely attack you if you show up in Indoril armor. But that's not the same as walking around naked. Though I do recall a certain Hlaalu councilor who responded very differently if you were declothed... They also need to find a better way to excel in Sneak, I always just paid people to train me.
Also, does anyone else think that the Stealth and Combat classes are inherently superior to the Magic classes? In all the classes I've played except Spellsword they're harder than Thieves or Assasins or Knights or anything. And, as a Thief or Knight, it's always much easier to kill a sorceror than it is a big combat guy.
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Indoril armor? I haven't gotten that far yet. When I first donned the Dark Brotherhood armor after killing an assisin, I was sure that the Ordinators would react to me in a hostile or suspicious way, but they didn't, not at all.
Any thougths on how to expand the sneaking? It sounds like a good idea, but I don't have any ideas on it off the top of my head.
Now that my character's acrobatic skills are getting higher, I find myself wishing the I could toss a grappling hook from one rooftop to another, secure the loose end, and run across the rope. That would be a lot of fun. No, this isn't a suggestion for expanding the sneaking skills--just me randomly musing about little things that I'd like to see added to the game.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I'm sure they could've put some of that in Morrowind, but left it out for simplicity's sake. It's bad enough having to remember to drop your skooma before talking to certain merchants, or to remove that spiffy Indoril helmet before going to Vivec...imagine if you had to keep that in mind everywhere? I'd hate it. And the reactions to nakedness vary widely. ("Put that away!") Heh.
Oh, and NPC's do react different whether or not your weapon is drawn. Watch the ratings of merchants when you go to buy from them with and without weapons drawn (it applies other places as well, affecting their disposition towards you).
posted
Noemon, thanks for the recommendation. Sounds like fun (maybe something for after the holidays).
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Tick--really? I hadn't noticed any difference; I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention.
One of the things that would be fun would be all of the varied reactions NPCs could have to your character's nudity.
CT, it really is a fantastic game, but be forwarned that it's incredibly time consuming. It isn't the sort of thing you can sit down and play for 20 minutes a night and get very far. Really I don't have enough time to be playing it myself, but I'm managing somehow. My character is verging on 18th level now.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:"That's what we want to address," Howard said. "Never let the player be bored, always be entertaining. We want to 'show you the fun,' and always be pointing you to something fun in the game, even if you don't know it's there."
quote:"We've really gotten much better at this," Howard says when discussing the living world of Oblivion. "We're really focusing this time on how people in the world react to you, because that's the most fulfilling thing about being good or bad or in-between." The game sports a new "Radiant AI" system that Howard says is best described as a combination of Ultima 7 and The Sims. Rather than following pre-scripted paths, every NPC is given a set of general goals they'd like to achieve, but the details of fulfilling that goal is entirely up to them. If a citizen is hungry, they'll look for a way to get food. They might buy food, hunt it, or steal it, then find a place to sit to eat and so on. This means that every one of the game's 1,000 NPCs follows a full 24/7 schedule that continues whether or not the player is there to witness it. It also means that the NPCs react to each other, so a townsperson who decides to steal a loaf of bread in full view of the guards may find himself under arrest.
It also means that everything the player does in the game that's witnessed by NPCs is processed and remembered by them, who will then use that information to decide how to react to you. Interactions are governed by what the player has done to them, what groups or guilds they're both a member of, whether the player has messed with anyone in their family and what their general reputation in the Empire is. Players who just watch the NPCs going about their daily lives will often witness townsfolk in unscripted dynamic conversations gossiping about what's going on in the kingdom and what rumors and news is currently hot.
Sounds like Noemon's concerns are being addressed.
posted
Oh, man, how cool is that? Thanks for the link Tick. It's blocked from my work, like too many of the sites I want to visit, but I'll check it out from home tonight.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Now, if I recall correctly there were horses you could ride in Daggerfall, right? It wasn't implemented all that well, if I'm remembering correctly, and it's possible that I'm misremembering entirely, but it's hard to say.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
They mentioned a funny chain reaction while testing the AI...a guard got hungry and decided to hunt some deer. He accidently hit something he shouldn't, and some other guardsmen came to arrest him. He resisted, and soon there was a melee involving all of the town guards. The more...opportunistic citizens of the town then took it upon themselves to steal from all the stores until they were empty (no guards and all!). They are still working on it.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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So when an NPC gets hungry and kills a rabbit or something, do they then cook it, or do they just start tearing into the thing raw?
There was a SirTech game (I think it was SirTech) that if I recall correctly was originally German, although I could easily be mistaken, in which you had to be hyper careful with your party or they'd starve, or freeze, or get lockjaw, or rabies, or just a flu, and die. It was an interesting idea, bringing that level of realism into the game, but it didn't make for a very fun experience. Star Trail? Was that the name of it? Star something. Regular fantasy world. Hmmm...this is going to bug me until I think of it.
The only game in which I've experienced the sense that the game world existed independent of my character was The Last Express, which I've raved about many times here. It was set on the Orient Express, though, and there were only a handfull of cars that you could get to, so it was pretty easy for them to control things. It was all scripted, too; no AI or anything like that determining who did what when. It felt very real though; you'd have to sneak around eavesdropping on ongoing conversations, and if you listened to one it was quite likely that you were missing another, and you had to really think things out. Great game. Sounds like this will be taking that same end user experience and projecting it onto an entire continent though.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I was right, it was Star Trail. I wanted to get Shadows Over Riva, but never got around to it. Anybody else play these?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I think it depends on what they do for food. Most will buy food, or have food on hand already. Those unsavory types will steal food. Not sure if you actually seek cooking but that would rock. Have a good reason for those campfires with the pots hanging above them. Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
(had to look up your reference, wikipedia is your friend)
Hmm, I think they'll be okay. You are referring to the 'uncanny valley' put forth by roboticists, right?
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
If you're referring to the idea that as artificial humans become more realistic, they also become increasingly attractive to observers, until you reach a point of near-realism where instead of looking like an "uncannily humanlike inanimate object" your artificial human looks like an "uncannily fake-looking human" at which point, observer sympathy drops off severely — your artificial human triggers visceral reactions that observers have against corpses and sick people, and they hate looking at your creation ... until you cross another threshold of realism and achieve a near-perfect simulation of humanity ...
... then we're on the same page.
See Everquest 2 and The Polar Express for examples (in my opinion) of the Uncanny Valley.
posted
That's what I thought. It's a neat idea, but (for me) I don't think it's ever going to happen with a computer game. I mean, I know it's all happening in a little box on my desk, and I'd wager their approximation of real life will still be flawed enough at this generation to not hit that valley.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:It's still a completely wide-open game, I think that's the essential ingredient to the series. What we're trying to do a better job at is the way that's presented to the player. We just need to do a better job of clarifying and showing the player what to do to progress in the game. I think the biggest risk in an entirely open game is the player getting bored, or not knowing if they are making progress, so that's something we acknowledged early and have many ways of addressing.
We do a lot more now with NPCs talking and pointing you in the right direction, and the way your quest journal and maps work together to clearly show you where something is and what you need to do. There are little things that we can do in all areas to keep reminding the player what they should be doing and if they are on the right track.
On combat (and the balance between stats and twitch skillz):
quote:It does retain that balance. It's part action, part stats. There's simply more things you can do. So your skills determine what combat moves you can do. As you level-up you unlock special moves that do more damage, can disarm your opponent, add more knockback to your strikes, and more. Whether you actually hit with this move is entirely action-based. You have to swing the sword and make contact. Your stats then determine how much damage is done. So your strength and weapon skill together do that, and then it gets modified by your opponent's armor skills and the actual armor you hit.
Blocking is also under your control, but its effectiveness is driven by skills. We also want to keep the fight moving. Any time it works for you to be successful by just standing there and clicking, we changed it up. We want you to move, look for openings, and use the most effective attack. The last thing we did with it was purely visual. We want it to really feel like guys bashing swords into each other. So how they react when hit, stumbling backwards, with great sound effects for the weapons and armor and blood flying realistically in and onto the right surfaces.
On "when it's done":
quote:The base technology is all in place, and we're cranking out areas and quests daily, playing the game -- then changing it. One day we'll say "ok, it's really fun -- ship it."
posted
Wow...I am SO EXCITED! My two biggest complaints about morrowind was the combat and those loooong journeys to get to where you needed. It looks like they're fixing that up. As long as they don't make any new problems, this game will be amazing. I hope we'll be able to fight on horseback instead of just riding them...
Posts: 853 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I cannot wait until the new game comes out. I absolutely love the whole idea of Morrowind and I have my dad and my little sister hooked on the game too. The new graphics look like they will be amazing and it is nice that the size will be reduced since the only thing that bugs me about Morrowind is the vast amounts of space. Plus, I am excited about the horses! Posts: 306 | Registered: Jun 2003
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