Note the lack of villains in poor makeup jobs and spandex floating above Batman and laughing at nothing. Also, no random leggy blondes.
Also, the American teaser poser is on the website, www.batmanbegins.com , as is the new trailer. Batman is now hardcore and supreme in his awesomeness, and will whip your butt without silly gadgets and an unnecessary orgy of neon lights.
I ask you, with the cast of: Christian Bale Michael Caine Liam Neeson Ken Watanabe Gary Oldman Rutger Hauer and Morgan Freeman
how could this go wrong? They attracted so much acting talent (I don't say star power... Movie stars and actors are two very different things.), how could the script be bad?
Well, it's not. And I know it's not, because I read the leaked version. And I, who laughed and scoffed at the idea of a new batman, must admit:
It is good.
Very very good. And it is in the hands of the man who did Memento and Insomnia.
And so a dying, never-great series is coming to a fantastic culmination. This summer is going to be fun fun.
[ December 17, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Book ]
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I saw this trailer when I went to see "Ocean's Twelve" this past weekend. I don't like it (the trailer at least) So dark, menacing and evil looking for Batman.
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Batman is supposed to be a the mythic hero figure, watching his training and inner struggle humanize him too much. He's still a likeable character, and it can still be a good movie, but it's about a whole different Batman.
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Batman was always my favorite of the superheros, he became what he is not through some random twist of fate, being born on a freaky planet or getting bit by a spider or through radiation, but because he trained hard and tried hard all his life and choose to be good enough he could fight crime and save lives.
That and his sidekick gets to make comments like "Holy, flying submarine Batman!"
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See, I like that (the humanzing). Over past twenty years, numerous artists such as Frank Miller and Jeph Loeb have looked into Batman's roots and origins and have found a fantastic dramatic resource that has never been tapped, and still hasn't on the silver screen.
Fundamentally, the American public has NEVER known Batman as he really exists in the comics. In the comics he is fantastically dark and menacing, someone who terrorizes the underworld to great levels, something closer to a ghost and a demon than simply a man.
It makes me sad to hear people look at this new, truer figure and feel repelled because it's not silly and campy and geared towards children. Batman was never geared towards children. He is the ultimate tragic hero, someone who has lost something and can never get it back, but is compelled to fight endlessly to protect it for others, for the innocent, which he can never count himself as again.
This is actually lighter than some versions of Batman. The Dark Knight Returns, perhaps the most critically acclaimed and celebrated work about Batman, views Wayne after he has retired, but his obesession and complsion is eating him alive, turning him into a dark and brooding psychopath.
Which, of course, he may have been all along. He does dress up like a bat and hospitalize criminals, you know.
Once you start off with him as a human, you come to understand how inhuman he's become.
For example, here's a quote I'm summoning from memory:
"Wayne manor. My Father's house. I have lived here for so long, but to me it will always be my Father's house... I actually only use three rooms: the bedroom, the kitchen, and the cave. All the others I know almost nothing of. Alfred maintains them, and before guests and parties he hands me a summary of all the artwork and furniture that are noticeable so I can engage in conversation with them all. All these people who want to know me... None of them matter. Bruce Wayne is not there. He does not matter. Nothing does, except the war.
My war."
[ December 17, 2004, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Book ]
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I guess I really have two different Batmans in my mind. (Batmen?) Dark and creepy nineties Batman and goofy sixties Batman with a giant novelty bomb. Burt Ward was my first crush, by the way.
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Yah, it's not the lack of light mindness that I mind, it's that when we become so involved with Batman's personal jouney to become the terror of the night (to bad guys ) he becomes the man instead of the myth, and I always felt that he was better as the myth. Like I said, not saying it wont be good, or that you can't like it, you just wont see me there.
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Thing is, it can still work as long as the versions are balanced.
Currently in the DC universe Batman is considered more or less an urban legend. Rarely seen by non-criminals, never seen clearly or in daylight, none of the "appearing at this weekend's Winn-Dixie Grand Opening!" feel of the 60's and TV Batman. This makes him darker and more mysterious, but that's almost incidental. What it really does is create a myth that's far more powerful than just some jerk in a bat suit.
This is loosely based on Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One." Dunno if it appears in the movie, but in the comic there's a great sequence where he goes out to fight crime for the first time wearing nondescript clothes and a wool cap. He gets the crap kicked out of him. Skills besides, his opponents have no fear of him and no reason to run away. The series is about the creation of his own myth, the shadowy, terrifying Batman. As stories started to circulate (and grow in the telling) just the hint of his appearance and the average criminals were already half-captured.
Remember: "Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot."
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Huh... I guess I'll go see it... I didn't plan to after seeing the trailer but I like the "dark, menacing and evil looking" Batman! When I saw the trailer I though: "Oh no, another one!" Well, maybe not just another one after all...
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Robin was added to the Batman comics for the purpose of making Batman less menacing - gotta please the parents. He was always dark and brooding. He's not a nice guy; he's a bit of a nut.
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This is definitely the story of the creation of the myth and the fear. As his trainer tells him, theatrics and deception are powerful tools, and once you become an idea instead of a man, you become far more powerful.
Sounds neat as all get out.
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So, is Batman going to hunt down evil villains to the catchy tunes of Huey Lewis and the News?
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I think that Batman was much more in his "Al Jeroe" phase in the time period being captured in this movie.
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my work somehow acquired a copy of the script, but i cannot verify whether it is the final version or not.
i have been debating reading it for days now. academically, i am curious. the little girl that loves surprises is wary.
i have robin from the dark knight returns on my desk, standing under the glow in the dark street lamp Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
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In the World's Finest series (about Batman and Superman meeting once a year and their evolving relationship from unfriendly competitors to grudging partners to friends), there's a great sequence where Batman is telling off Superman, who thinks he should be more open and friendly.
Something to the effect: I'm not bullet proof. I can't fly. I'm not 1000 times stronger than the people I fight. If I don't have people reacting the instant I appear, I die.
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I love the Batman/Superman relationship, especially in DKR, as well as in Hush. Seeing them fight would be an awesome scene, should they ever make a movie out of DKR (unlikely, as it would almost certainly require an R rating, and people would still want Batman to be child-friendly).
Superman is usually only interesting in reacting to other characters, especially Batman, due to their distinct differences in approaches. One thing that's neat though: Supes usually gives Bats all the kryptonite he finds, for the express purpose if he would ever go rogue (which seems to happen all the time - mind control and all that), Bats would be the one to know when the use of it was necessary, he would use it unhesitatingly when he knew it was necessary, and he would also use it without mercy.
EDIT: Interesting side note - on the upcoming Begins video game, criminals are given "Terror Meters," indicating how terrified they are of Batman. The Meter is essentially a face that shows their surprise. When it's flipping out, say, when you burst out of the shadows, they fire wildly and without control, and probably run away. If it isn't, like when you're running at them from across a well-lit warehouse, they'll probably just plug you in the head at a distance.
[ December 17, 2004, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Book ]
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"sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't"
I'm definitely looking forward to Batman Begins, if for no other reason than to try and pick out Chicago scenery LOL. When a movie screws up my daily commute for months at a time, I simply HAVE to see it.
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I know the guy who wrote the "Batman Begins Visual Guide." Went to college with him. He also wrote the stories of various Bat-folk comics (Robin: year one, I think, among others).
[ December 18, 2004, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
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In response to the humanizing dilemma, here's a quote from the writer, David Goyer, from a recent interview:
quote: I don’t think Superman appeared in costume until about forty five minutes into the first movie, same with Spider-Man. I loved the second SPIDER-MAN movie, more so than the first, but my favourite stuff in the first film is the first forty-five minutes, before he puts on the suit. Tobey Maguire is just so great. My argument with Warner Bros was that if we can have people invest in Bruce Wayne, as a character, they will care, but when he does put on the suit – they will care more. That’s what our purpose was. We didn’t want to just be marking time. Remember that photograph of JFK junior at the burial of JFK? Saluting? We were thinking of Bruce Wayne as a young kid. Bruce Wayne was the loneliest boy in the world because he lost both his parents and he’s the heir of this multi-billion dollar fortune, and he’s got all these people surrounding him, he’s almost like a prisoner of Wayne Manor. His childhood was spent terribly, terribly lonely. So much of his life has been filled with fear too – fear of failure, ultimately fearing to live up to his father, because his father was sort of an impossible guy to live up to. He has all these fears about letting his father down in terms of Wayne Industries, and what we’ve tried to do in the new Batman movies is tie the Waynes into the history of Gotham, and his father tries to instil in him a sense of stewardship for Gotham, a sort of responsibility.
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Every new thing I learn about this movie makes me want to see it more. As someone who hates the campy light-hearted versions of Batman (that is to say, every live-action version made so far), I'm really looking forward to seeing this new darker, more human interpretation.
And playing the game. I absolutely love the concept of the "Terror Meter". That idea is truly inspired!
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I'm looking forward to this movie too. I'm not as familiar with the comics as all of you are, but it just looks like a fantastic movie!
And I can't pass up Christian Bale, Liam Neeson, Gary Oldman, Rutger Hauer and Ken Watanabe in the same movie.
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Apparently there's already a roadmap of sequels established, and the general rule is if Batman Begins is successful, sequels will be made.
To any Bat fans, I will now paste the news from batman-on-film.com, which relates the news of said sequels. The characters involved are CLEARLY Two Face and the Joker, and it looks like they're going back to the old Long Halloween/Dark Victory storyline sorta stuff, for anyone who knows what that is.
quote: Here's the deal with this info. It's my job to get this out there to y'all, BUT, I can't be very specific. You are going to have to read between the lines here OK? Look at some of the stuff I've written on this in the past. And I know I'll get hammered for not giving up all the goods, but just know I have the best interests of BATMAN BEGINS 2--or what ever it'll be called--in mind.
Anyway, here it is. I've recieved even further confirmation on just who is being looked at to be the main villains in the next two films--we're talking about two specific, classic BATMAN characters. Seems that there could be some overlapping with these characters in the two sequels, but each will be the main baddie of separate films. It also seems now that their appearence will occur in a different order than what I was led to believe previously. One of these characters relationship with Bruce Wayne will be developed in the next film--much like it is in the comic books. Both of these potential Bat-villains were in the previous Burton/Schumacher films. Revenge is a strong theme, or so I've been told, in the next two movies.
As far as Chris Nolan, he's not signed to return--yet. Word has it that he's apprehensive about doing a sequel or two. No doubt WB wants him to return, have asked him to return, and will throw huge coin at him to return, but nothing is for sure. In that regard, I've heard that WB may have a contingency plan in place for director. Good move if this is indeed the case--be prepared. As much as I've loved what Nolan has done with this film, let's hold off of anointing Mr. Nolan a Bat-god until after we've seen BATMAN BEGINS....
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