posted
You whisper to me, and I'll repeat it to my dog, okay?
Max is 9 months old; we've had him since he was 4 months old. He's a wonderful dog. We've always had an understanding with him - he doesn't chew on things in the house, and in return we don't complain too loudly when he sneaks off with a trashcan lid or shows up in the yard with a deer leg (like he did just this morning).
But his love of all things plastic is beginning to be a problem. Last week we found one of our plastic landscaping lights out in the yard - he'd also dug up the plastic piping that held the cord and made off with that. My fear is that one day he'll return with something from the neighbor's yard. Now, someone down the road actually has a lot of junk in their yard, so in a way Max could be performing a community service - but I digress.
We never catch him in the act, so it's been very difficult to reprimand him. I'm aware of Bitter Apple, but didn't think it would be very effective applied on things outside that will get wet. Any suggestions on what we can do to deter him? Thanks!
space opera
[ January 13, 2005, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
Posts: 2578 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Hmmmmmm..... yeah, Bitter Apple doesn't really work outside. If you can monitor him for a while, people use an air horn to discourage their dogs from digging... when you see them start digging, you hold it behind your back and honk it, making a loud noise that they hopefully won't like. The idea is to get them to associate the bad noise with the digging, not with you seeing the digging, because if they know you're doing it, then they know it's only wrong when you're around.
Would it be possible to build a fenced-in area for him to run around in outside? That way you could control what he has access to. Otherwise.... I have no idea!
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I think you should restrain his movement outdoors, either in a fenced area or with invisible fencing, or only take him out on a leash. I don't know where you live, but he could be unsafe for any number of reasons if he wanders: cars, angry farmers, sharp objects he eats, et.
My advice. You asked!
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Is he chewing plastic up because he's bored? That's the only time our Rottie gets into trouble...she gets bored, so she digs up my flowerbeds and chews up my favorite flowerpots. Or worse, she weasels her way out of the yard and scares the daylights out of our neighbors. She's a sweetheart of a dog, but Rottweilers have such a reputation. Honestly, I think we'll only break her of this habit if we get another big dog (no effin' way) so she's not bored, or move back out into the county and get cows again for her to play with (which is what she grew up with).
OTOH, our Shih Tzu chews on stuff just to be ornery. She particularly loves fuzzy slippers and favorite plastic toys. I got her to leave the slippers alone by setting a trap. I knew she'd go for them, so I left them in the middle of the floor and then walked out of her line of sight. She went for it and just as she was digging in to really rip them to shreds, I scared the daylights out of her with loud screaming and rushing at her. I didn't have to do this but two or three times. She leaves those slippers strictly alone now.
edited to add that our Rottie is locked up most of the time because of her bad habits. If we could trust her loose in the yard, we would. Instead, she has a very nice dog run with a warm doghouse. She gets out of the run when we are also out in the yard and can keep her out of trouble.
posted
I'll second Elizabeth's advice--unless it's an older, very reliable dog in a very rural area, I don't think dogs should ever be let loose on their own. Too many bad things can happen.
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posted
Tobasco has known to be effective. There are also out door scent deterrents that you can spray as well. They are designed for annoying neighbor dogs, but if your dog *is* that dog, it really isn't a crime to use it with your own animal. Normally you can use it in a localized area and it isn't going to make him hate the rest of the back yard.
posted
Just FYI, the Invisible Fence can be really problematic, even if it sounds like a good idea.... it's an electric shock collar, for one, and there are lots of downsides to confining your dog when everything and everyone else is unrestricted. Like if an aggressive neighbor dog comes in to attack it, it can't run away, or if it manages to break through the barrier, it won't want to go back through.... and in more populated areas, it can be a problem when other people think your dog is running loose.
But yeah, I though it was brilliant when I first heard about it. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I recommend cayenne red pepper. It doesn't go away when it rains, and most dogs hate it (though I had one that seemed to love the taste.) Most dogs, after getting one noseful of the stuff, will not try digging in that area again.
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posted
Zeugma, true. They do not recommend invisible fencing for large dogs, particularly Huskies and Malamutes. They will accept the pain to reach their goal of freedom. it also takes a lot of training. However, I have friends who have them and it works beautifully.
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posted
Thanks guys! I'll try the tobasco and pepper and see if that helps.
Restraining him (leash only or invisible fencing) would not be a good solution for us. We live on almost 4 acres and most of it is wooded, so trying to fence in anything would be difficult and very expensive. We don't worry about cars as our house is on a dead-end gravel road with only 5 other houses on it.
I might try the air horn as well. He doesn't like loud noises, and using that when he goes near flowerbeds and the landscape lights might work. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll let you all know how it goes.
space opera
edit: Forgot to add - another problem with invisible fencing would be what Zeugma mentioned - it doesn't keep other dogs out. We don't have any aggressive ones in the neighborhood that I know of, but no one fences dogs around here - so if we did ever end up with one it would be a problem. Plus, poor Max is just silly enough that he'd happily take the shock.
[ January 10, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
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posted
Thanks Farmgirl! I got a really great book over the weekend - it's very matter-of-fact and is geared towards people who just want a small flock.
What kind(s) of chicks do you order? The books lists several different types - a few of which are listed as being hardy in cold weather, which I thought might be good. I suppose too I should call our feed store and see what breeds they normally carry.
I'm quite nervous about getting chicks to begin with. Maybe it would be better to get a few pullets instead of chicks?
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My husband mentioned chickens right before we got this house (it is an unincorporated county neighborhood). It came up again a couple of weeks ago.
I'm not sure if his enthusiasm was dampened at all by the Guiness book of world records for longest living headless chicken. (18 months)
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posted
I went to a school where the staff and students participated in the annual "Chicken Harvest." Not enjoyable.
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Trisha, there is a book I could recommend if you want!
Liz, a "chicken harvest" sounds like something I definately would not want to participate in!
For the record, we are only going to have about 3 hens for egg-laying purposes only. Since I don't eat meat and won't prepare it either, looks like our chickens won't have much to worry about.
posted
My absolute favorite "raising chickens" book is "Raising Chickens the Modern Way" by Garden Way Publications -- but I don't find a web site for them (they usually have lots of ads in Mother Earth News magazine.) They have a "book" like this for almost all small livestock "Raising a Calf for Beef" , "Raising Rabbits" etc.
But mostly I just use my mom for info, because when she was young she raised grand champion hens for 4-H and state fair and gave presentations on them.
Pullets might be easier for a first-timer until you are more used to chickens -- but chicks really aren't that hard, and they grow quite rapidly.
We here prefer the heavier, high-laying varieties, because we raise mostly for eggs, not meat. So we have Rhode Island Reds, a Leghorn variety and Buff Minorcas. I'm happy with all of these (Rhode Islands have always been my favorite just because they are redheads ) -- however the Buffs are new to me this year, and they are a little nervous and flightly.
We got our chicks in April (I think) and they didn't start laying pullet-sized eggs until late September or early October, to give you an idea who long it takes for them to grow to that size. They will have several small pullet eggs, some without any yolk at all, before they get through puberty enough to lay full eggs. However now, with just 11 chickens, one of which is very old from an older batch, and she doesn't lay; we get around 8 to 9 eggs per day.
I was very glad we had kept the older hen from our old batch before we got the new ones -- she played "mama" to the chickens once they were big enough for us to put them in the pen with her. She would cluck and strut around and talk to them and they would follow her everywhere and learned from her. Even though she was a banty breed and much smaller than the pullets themselves. It was hilarious.
posted
Thanks for the info., Farmgirl. I have some more questions if you don't mind. I'm almost done with my chicken book, and there are still a few things I'm not clear on.
What the heck in the ground under the run supposed to be like? (I mean the penned area - not the hen house) At one point in my book it says dirt, and in another it says you have to put straw down out there. I was just going to have it be grass at first and then assumed eventually the chickens would wear it down.
Will a compost bin or 2 be sufficient to take care of the straw and shavings that I clean out of the hen house? I'm planning on having 3 hens total, and want to make sure I've got a good plan for disposing of the waste.
If they have a large feeder and waterer, can they be left (when they're fully grown) for a week-end safely?
Are chickens pretty quiet in reality? The books says that they are, except for loud cackling when they lay.
That's it for now, but I'm sure I'll have more. After reading some more on chick care, and your assurances, I think we just might go ahead and start with chicks. Sounds like as long as they're watched and kept in a clean cage they aren't too hard to care for. Oh - another question - if we get chicks, I was planning to put the cage (with a heat lamp, of course) in the basement. Our basement is unheated - will that be ok?
Thanks so much, Farmgirl. I really appreciate your help!
posted
Thanks for bumping this -- I hadn't seen your last questions..
quote: At one point in my book it says dirt, and in another it says you have to put straw down out there. I was just going to have it be grass at first and then assumed eventually the chickens would wear it down.
Dirt is fine. Can't imagine why they would say straw, to tell the truth. Your grass (depending on the size of the area, will last probably all of about 3 days (*grin*) Chickens REALLY tear up grass quickly. They love it. Then they will scratch and scratch and dig down and make little impressions in the soil to sit in and "dust themselves" with.
quote:Will a compost bin or 2 be sufficient to take care of the straw and shavings that I clean out of the hen house? I'm planning on having 3 hens total, and want to make sure I've got a good plan for disposing of the waste.
For only 3 hens, that should be fine. Myself, I just take and spread it on my garden and till it in (not usually at a place where I am current growing anything though, as it is too hot to be put directly on the plants)
quote: If they have a large feeder and waterer, can they be left (when they're fully grown) for a week-end safely?
Most of the time, yes. I will qualify that with saying -- depends on the time of year. Extreme heat of summer or extreme cold of winter, I would not. The most important thing is the water. Having a good fresh supply of water is essential. In the winter, you can't let it freeze; and in the summer you want them to be well hydrated. So even if you have to be gone more than a couple days, and have a neighbor who can refresh the water, that should be fine. I might add that you lose chickens faster to extreme heat than extreme cold, usually, if they are allowed to stay together and huddle for warmth in winter.
quote:Are chickens pretty quiet in reality? The books says that they are, except for loud cackling when they lay.
Yes, hens are usually very quiet. Unless under distress, and then they will just kind of "call an alarm" for a bit, but quiet back down (like if a Hawk flies over the pen quite low). Roosters, however, are never quiet. I hate roosters (because my bedroom window is the closest thing to the chicken pen) I currently have no roosters. The "cackling when laying" is hilarious! It's like "hey look at me everyone! I laid an egg!" They have to announce each one. Sometimes they outgrown this.
quote:Oh - another question - if we get chicks, I was planning to put the cage (with a heat lamp, of course) in the basement. Our basement is unheated - will that be ok?
That would be fine. This year, I actually didn't even use a heat lamp because mine had broken -- I just kept them in a comfortable place (but we did get them a little later in the year than normal). And they were fine.
The chicks will really go through the feed fast (there is usually a chick starter feed you buy for that age). But they will grow very fast and be ready for pullet feed in a handful of months.
posted
I went through about every breed of weird chicken back in my day of poultry 4-Hing, and found that the ones who fared the best in cold and remained the best egg producers were Orpingtons. Barred Rocks and Rhode Island Reds are always good too.
Don't let them talk you into getting Cornish crosses. They're good meat chickens, but stupid as all get out.
Where are you getting them, out of curiosity? We always ordered ours through Murray McMurray hatchery, and had very good experiences.
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posted
Also, the McMurray catalog sells supplies, and we got a good chick waterer through them. It's a big jug that you screw a bottom tray onto and provides fresh water for a long time.
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Thanks Farmgirl and Annie! Farmgirl, I do plan to eventually use the composted chicken poop for fertilizer on the garden - so I'm glad you mentioned that.
I hadn't thought about ordering chicks. I know the local feed store gets them in - when I asked what breeds the lady didn't give a specific answer - just that they were standard heavy breeds which do well in our area. I might try calling back in a few days and asking someone else. I don't have my heart set on a particular breed, but the Rhode Island Reds sound nice. Is it better to order chicks, though?
Chickens are starting to seem mighty exciting to me. I walked around the yard last night trying to figure out the best place to put a coop. Now I just need to get Mr. Opera to build it in time!
posted
Actually I think most feed stores order their chicks through McMurray. At least that is where ours gets the ones I order -- and I also order them through the local feed store. That way they take care of them until I show up to pick them up! *grin* But you might ask your store which hatchery they order from.
Are you getting sexed chicks to make sure you only get pullets (females) if that is what you want?
Yeah -- you really should be able to specify which breed you want. I can't believe they would be so vague.
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