posted
This past week, it came to light that British soldiers had engaged in prisoner humiliation very much like what happened at Abu Graib (sp?) prison under the Americans. NPR reported this in depth over the weekend.
Something kept bothering me about what the Brits were saying during the interviews. It finally dawned on me. Why saying that they hoped this was limited to "a few bad eggs" on their forces, they said some pretty snide things about the American military. And implied not just that it was recent events that had colored their view of the US armed forces, but that it was kind of par for the course.
Anyway, what they said were things like:
"Of course, the British military has a top knotch reputation (unlike the Americans) and this sort of thing is much more likely to be an isolated incident rather than a systemic problem..."
I have two questions:
1) For those of you in other countries, but especially in the UK, do you really believe that the US military has a negative reputation? What are some of the things that people say about our military?
2) Do you think that the British military are fooling themselves and that the scandal is likely to spread? I mean, our military has painted this as not spreading beyond the non-commissioned officer ranks and certainly not to upper-echelon commanders. But it sure does sound like there might've been some "look the other way" encouragement from above. Do Brits really think that the same sorts of things in their ranks are isolate "hijinx?"
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posted
Concerning scandal and cruelty: There is always going to be those who cause trouble in any military; America, British, Swiss no matter which and I think, to a certain extent, all governments at war, even a popular one, will urge if not a "look the other way" policy, but one of "play it down" and "react immediately to solve the problem, or appear to solve the problem." The English are doing this; only to an American does it seem so snide (but let's face it, most people in Europe are somewhat snide to the North American extravagaza anyway. Who NEEDS cars that big or roads that wide, hmph.)
Concerning the reputation of the American Military: In Canada, at least, it has a reputation of being several things. One of these is that it is ridiculously powerful; it owns the best, is the biggest and has the nukes. Like all hugely powerful militaries, people believe that there has to be a weakness, if only to save them from constant fear; this manifests it's idea in the fact that it has 'issues'. Its reputation (not per person but as a super-powerful unit) inspires resentment because of the fact that it is so overly massive.
All tremendously powerful armies are laughed and picked at, especially those that actively use their power.
A second reputation the American Military has, again as a faceless unit, is that of marching in, metaphorical trumpets blaring, crusade flags flapping, and then, regardless of any hiccups, being apparantly enormously proud and sincere about it. No other country is quite so spectacular in this, and so it's a source of a little humour. (Most countries reward their heroes but none in quite the same way as America, example; a Military record a necessity for a leader? Insane! Ha ha ha!)
Finally, nowhere else is the military taken so seriously. Make a comedy about the military in Canada (plastic knives and forks as weapons, sinking submarines fixed up with duct tape), or the military in Britain (stupid officers, homosexuality and chaos among the ranks, read Spike Milligan or Roald Dahl's memoirs) and everyone laughs, including those who were there. Make a comedy about an aspect of the American Military and immediately everyone's talking about disrespect, including the ex-military President.
So the American Military is percieved as a huge overly-supreme unit, linked in an odd way with teh government that takes itself too seriously and tends to go around setting everyone right all the time.
posted
You know...that last part about criticism sort of rings true. I was advised not to tell the story of some things I worked on FOR the military precisely because I was an outsider -- with insider knowledge, but still, not one of the fold.
I have to say, however, that we've had some spectacularly popular comedies based on the military. Catch-22, M*A*S*H, lots of Neil Simon, others I can't think of at the moment, but tons of them... People don't mind laughing at the military's expense. But, just like anything, you don't make fun of the grunts, you have to poke fun at the people with the power (officers, etc.) or it just becomes mean and spiteful.
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posted
On the purely silly side, Stripes, Private Benjamin, that sub movie with Kelsey Grammer, and Pauly Shore's one about the water purification unit. Plus a bunch of Simpson's episodes.
Military comedies are very common.
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posted
Yes, I admit I forgot about M*A*S*H (which is a pain to type, arg) etc. But its still the same thing. Spike Milligan's fantastic five-part memoir tears apart any sense of grandeur about the military, including the officers (in many cases the officers). British Comedy series Blackadder does the same thing, mixing great laughter and upper-echelon incompetance with great sadness.
The Simpsons I think gets a special licence to take the mickey out of the great leaders. I still think that out of the many democratised countries of the world, America takes its military the most seriously.
posted
Well...that's sort of my point...the comedies about the military ALWAYS make fun of the officers. You can't have a comedy making fun of the grunts.
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Edit: Not to say you're not right about that - Rizzo is a seargent, and is the most regular army of all the enlisted men who were regulars in the series.
posted
I disagree. The ones that probably take it most seriously are the ones where they come and shoot you if you don't.
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quote: 1) For those of you in other countries, but especially in the UK, do you really believe that the US military has a negative reputation? What are some of the things that people say about our military?
I don’t know very many people in the British military, but the ones I have talked to on this issue tend to agree with the general consensus put forward in the news media that the American military tends to be less people-centric that ours. For example, a few weeks ago the BBC news had an article on the evening news showing our troops on the ground giving out bubble gum and pencils to Iraqi children while the American troops stayed firmly in their tanks. They are often depicted as distant and more concerned with their own welfare than the British, who are shown as outgoing and caring. This caring image has been severely damaged by the recent mistreatment scandal. I’m sure this is the case in every country, but our military is generally viewed with pride and loyalty and seen as ‘the best in the world’ just like it says on the recruitment adverts. Considering that the majority of the men over the age of sixty-five have served in the military due to compulsory service and active service in the world wars, almost everyone has someone in their family who has been in the military, so that may be where this superiority complex comes from. There is also more loyalty to ‘our boys’ at present because they are under the risk of attack in a war which perhaps the majority of British citizens are not entirely sure was justified, and which was begun and lead by an American president. This may be a reason for bitterness.
However, the deaths of American soldiers are reported on our news with sympathy and in a way that gives the impression that when our allies are attacked, we are all under attack. There are also reports on their work in Iraq where they are shown in a positive light.
I don’t feel qualified to give an answer the second question, so I’ll leave that for someone else.
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