quote:BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The Iraqi High Tribunal on Sunday sentenced former President Saddam Hussein and two other defendants to death by hanging for a brutal crackdown in 1982 in the Shiite town of Dujail.
Iraqis, under a curfew in Baghdad, spilled out onto the capital's streets in celebration of the verdict, news footage showed.
Along with Hussein, his half-brother and former intelligence chief Barzan Hassan, and former chief judge of the Revolutionary Court Awad Bandar also got death.
Taha Yassin Ramadan, a former vice president of Iraq, was sentenced to life in prison.
"The verdict was predetermined and has nothing to do with court proceedings," Ramadan said.
Mohammed Azzawi Ali, a former Dujail Baath Party official, was acquitted because of insufficient evidence against him, the court said.
The three others -- Abdullah Kadhem Ruwaid, Ali Dayem Ali, and Misher Abdullah Ruwaid -- were sentenced to 15 years each.
posted
I wonder how it'll be received. One of the guys said the trial was a farce, since the verdict was reached before the trial even began.
So I wonder how many people will view this as an American theater. The court actually kicked the American defense attorney out of the court, saying his presence was a mockery of the Iraqi people. Was that just for show? Or do they really feel that way? Ironic considering we found the guy and turned him over to begin with.
Will this enrage Sunni baathists? Will it cow them? I can't imagine how this could go ill for US public relations. Sunnis want us to stay there so the Shiites won't kill them, so they can't really get pissed at us. Shiites got to do the executing, though I imagine they'll say we meddled. And I imagine the Kurds will throw a parade.
Should be interesting to see how this plays out in the court of public opinion. I doubt anyone is really surprised at the verdict and sentence.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I'm a bit surprised that they're going to hang him. I didn't know anyone still did that.
I'm also not sure how I feel about a death sentence for him. He ruled through fear, not charisma. Would anyone still follow Sadaam and try to rescue him? Would he be a danger to the guards and other inmates? Even if he served twenty years and got out on parole, would he be a danger to anyone at that point? Would anyone give him power a second time?
I think I'd rather they left him in prison.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I'ld prefer they simply gave him 30 years in a high security prison with a TV and alaptop so he can think about his decisions and watch global events. If things go for the better he'll know.
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posted
If he had been found innocent, there are other countries who had legitimate charges to file against him. Given the scope of the charges he was facing, some sort of punishment does seem inevitable, although a death sentence was not certain.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I am completely against the death penalty. Having said that, political and social necessity means that in this case, execution is probably the only option. Left alive, imprisoned, Hussein almost certainly becomes a centre for kidnap, hostage taking and murder. Time would pass and his reputation could easily become romanticised. While dead martyrs can be dangerous, history suggests that live ones are often doubly so. While I loathe the concept of the death penalty, I would rather see him die than anyone innocent in his name. Not sure what that says about my principles, but there you go. Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
The death penalty is barbaric and lessens humanity as a whole. Sadaam wasn't a monster, he was a human who did monstrous things. He is still a human, and I believe in the capacity for humans to change.
By killing him, we gain nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
You're right, Launchywiggin. It's a waste of a good rope. He should just be left to starve.
No one owes him food or water or a place to live. And we obviously can't let him go free. Seems to me that a quick death is more mercy than he actually deserves.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Saddam is pretty old and he already spawned two monsters worse then himself, no point in keeping him around to elevate us all. He is hardly a martyr, he was the most secular leader in the Middle East.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
About being a farce : It seems to me that the reason the verdict was predetermined was that everybody knew he was guilty. I mean, nobody actually has any doubt about this, right? Saddam really did order thousands and tens of thousands killed, using war gases and torture. I'm not aware of anyone who argues that he is innocent of this. But this is hardly the court's fault. He was given the same trial as anyone else would be given; if he had neither the law nor the facts on his side, well, what can you do? You can't very well let people off merely because their guilt is screamingly obvious! And the other alternative, presumably, would be to shoot them without trial, which is kind of what we're trying to get away from, here.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
This was a forgone conclusion. While I'm no supporter of capital punishment, neither do I weep for a guy who did Very Bad Things(tm). His capture/overthrow was about the only thing that went right with the conflict in Iraq.
posted
Come now, it wasn't a farce because the US wouldn't let him go, it's a farce because had he been set free anyway, he'd have been dead within a week.
Hanging doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is that they aren't beheading him. That's middle east style.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I have to say, I'm a bit surprised by this as well... not that the trial ended in a sentence for him, that was a given. But that he is sentenced to be executed. Does that mean that, according to our terms of justice, anyone of his level of tyranny should meet the same ends? What if he is an American? I find it difficult to believe that they'd sentence any American man to death by hanging.
I don't mean to say that our country is racist, necessarily, but I definitely don't think our government perceives this as a "normal" situation. It makes me wonder what would happen if Saddam WAS American. The trial would still have been a joke, most likely, but the sentence?
Difficult to say.
quote: Hanging doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is that they aren't beheading him. That's middle east style.
quote:While dead martyrs can be dangerous, history suggests that live ones are often doubly so.
Well, YEAH!! They're not just out to promote ideological changes, anymore. No, no: they want ideological change and BRAINS.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote: They're not just out to promote ideological changes, anymore. No, no: they want ideological change and BRAINS.
[off topic] That made me giggle, so I checked the dictionary, and apparently a 'martyr' really can be a live person who is believed to have suffered, but not neccessarily died for their cause. So I wasn't just going mad when I used the word in that context.[/off topic]
Zombie Saddam is something I don't think anyone really wants to see, though maybe they could work it into the sequel to 'Team America'.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Raia, if the man were American then no, he wouldn't have been sentenced to death by hanging (at least I don't think that's a valid method in any states anymore), but that's because he would be sentenced by American courts. Since he was an Iraqi, and sentenced in an Iraqi court, then it makes sense because it's probably one of their typical methods of execution.
Much as it's not the most humane way to go, it's not exactly out of the ordinary or that incredibly much more cruel than other forms of execution.
and starLisa, that kind of vitriol attached to launchywiggin's plea for the value of human life is really just in terrible taste...
be in favor of the sentence or not, but try to also respect other people's views and not make a mockery of them.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
He was the enemy against whom our nation declared war. He should never have been handed over to local authorities. He should have been executed by the U.S. military, after they found out from him all they could about the weapons of mass destruction he had been telling the world he had. All the time and expense of a show-trial, and the sectarian rioting likely to result from his eventual execution by Iraqi authorities, demonstate the foolishness of the policy that was followed.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I don't believe in humanizing monsters. That just gives them more power than they deserve. Hang the man and get it over with.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: He was the enemy against whom our nation declared war. He should never have been handed over to local authorities. He should have been executed by the U.S. military, after they found out from him all they could about the weapons of mass destruction he had been telling the world he had. All the time and expense of a show-trial, and the sectarian rioting likely to result from his eventual execution by Iraqi authorities, demonstrate the foolishness of the policy that was followed.
I think it was a lot about helping to establish the new government.
Posts: 503 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: He was the enemy against whom our nation declared war. He should never have been handed over to local authorities. He should have been executed by the U.S. military, after they found out from him all they could about the weapons of mass destruction he had been telling the world he had. All the time and expense of a show-trial, and the sectarian rioting likely to result from his eventual execution by Iraqi authorities, demonstate the foolishness of the policy that was followed.
If the US had tried and executed Saddam, that would have only further delegitimized an already weak and ineffectual Iraqi government, especially among Sunnis--the last thing we need now. And if it was a US military court that convicted and sentenced him to death then adjourned before lunch, to save time and expense, that would obviously be thought even more of a farce than the actually trial, and would lead to as much or more rioting. I can't see your point, Ron.
edit:and what Vasslia said. 2ndedit: I don't think a US military court would act that way, I'm just making a point.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
ALthough I think Saddam Hussein probably deserves to die, I just had a thought based on all this discussion of will it merely exacerbate the situation and I think that it will. I think that even hiding Hussein's body in a secret location will not prevent people from tracking it down and making him into a focus (however misplaced) for their anger.
I think that it would be much less dramatic to keep him in a maximum security prison for the rest of his life.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Thank you for the clarification... my facts were a bit confused. I must make sure to have them completely straight before I open my mouth next time. Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Fyfe: That isn't funny.
Well, don't get me wrong, I certainly wouldn't want to watch it.
But imagine it... don't you think people are lining up to broadcast this thing? Make a public spectacle of the execution? As sickening as the spectacle might be, if they do get arount to actually performing the execution, do you think they'll do it in secret in a back room somewhere? I see this either going the way of Benito Mussolini or being a very visible public event.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I imagine this will be something akin to the execution of Louis XVI, insofar as the public execution mass exultation of the crowd thing goes, and little else.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Hmmm, I hadn't thought about it before this thread, but I wonder how the execution will play out? Obviously, he'll be dead at the end, but will he get a final speech? Or other drama? Will it be televised? With a live studio audience? A laugh track?
Also:
quote:SADDAM VERDICT LACKS DETAILS: [snip] The full verdict, a document of several hundred pages, explaining how and why today’s judgment was reached was not released. U.S. officials said it should be ready by Thursday. So why issue the verdict today? U.S. court advisors told reporters today it was delayed mainly for technical reasons. All insist the verdict was not politically timed and that it was an Iraqi decision; there is no reason to doubt their word.
http://onthescene.msnbc.com/baghdad/2006/11/saddam_verdict_.html There is no reason to doubt their word? How about by cutting to the chase yesterday it gives the GOP a desperately needed bump 48 hours before the election, which releasing the full verdict on Thursday doesn't? Doesn't that raise doubts about the lack of US involvement?
And even if you grant that it was purely an Iraqi decision, couldn't they still have timed the verdict for US political effect themselves?
Why was Saddam's sentencing rescheduled to 2 days before a crucial US election anyway? I've never seen the explanation for that either. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Morbo, we did not send in the FBI to arrest Saddam Hussein and put him on trial, we sent in the U.S. military to wage war. My point is that a military campaign is not a police operation. War is not jurisprudence.
Everyone would have expected us to execute Saddam. That is what it is assumed an army will do against its enemy. There would have been no rioting. It is since then that Iraq has organized militias and begun a virtual civil war of Sunni Vs. Shiite.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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