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Warning: Obviously this is not the embodiment of western values, its nothing you wouldn't see on your local magazine rack here, but geez keep at least Lil Kim out of the middle east if at all possible.
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Maybe if there were more hotties in bikinis in the middle east, all the guys would have less time to fight.
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Maybe if there were more hotties in bikinis in the middle east, all the guys would have less time to fight.
Incidents of rape and teenage pregnancy would also follow and in huge numbers, again no thanks. Both are currently quite low in Muslim countries, it's also a reason why northern African countries do not have a problem with HIV whereas western, central, and most especially southern Africa is rife with it.
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Maybe if there were more hotties in bikinis in the middle east, all the guys would have less time to fight.
Incidents of rape and teenage pregnancy would also follow and in huge numbers, again no thanks. Both are currently quite low in Muslim countries, it's also a reason why northern African countries do not have a problem with HIV whereas western, central, and most especially southern Africa is rife with it.
Hotties in bikinis are to blame for the spread of HIV in western, southern, and central Africa?
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I'm going to agree with airmanfour and suggest that post hoc, ergo propter hoc may apply in this case.
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BlackBlade: incidents of rape are already depressingly common in much of northern Africa. Darfur and Chad alone would send the rate skyrocketing for the region.
I don't know of a good source on teenage pregnancies, but there are two factors reducing those in sub-saharan africa that have nothing to do with bikinis. One, fewer children are considered desirable (desired family size is three to four there, unlike the four to eight of sub-saharan africa). Two, contraceptive information is readily available -- ninety percent or more of women in each country know where a nearby center to obtain help.
So its hardly likely an availability of bikinis would lead to a great increase in the teen pregnancy rate. Northern Africa has fewer teenage pregnancies than southern Africa not because of stricter clothing rules (which would seem an odd thing to correlate with teenage pregnancies, anyways), but because people want much smaller families (and can thus wait before getting pregnant even if married young) and have much greater access to birth control.
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Western countries have problems with teenage birth statistics or rape? I'm not aware of any positive correlation like that.
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quote: BlackBlade: incidents of rape are already depressingly common in much of northern Africa. Darfur and Chad alone would send the rate skyrocketing for the region.
Well 1: A single case of rape per year to me is depressing so you might want to clarify what constitutes, "depressingly high." for you,
Could you provide evidence of this claim?
In a political science course and a geography course part of the curriculum was to discuss AIDS as it exists in Africa and what are some of the causes, short, and long term effects.
Culturally speaking, central to southern Africans are quite promiscuous, or sex before marriage is not a big deal. Whereas in Northern Africa where there is a high concentration of Muslim's, this is not the case. Most likely because Islam is very pointedly for abstinence of sex before marriage. This is not the exclusive reason for AIDS in Africa but coupled with another problem its a deadly factor.
Education on almost everything, to say nothing of STD's is terrible in Africa. Without the basic grounding in biology that most of us enjoy, how do you explain to people what a virus is, and the nature of a virus? When AIDS was becoming a serious problem in Africa nobody in the general populous was sure what was going on (almost nobody outside of Africa cared). A variety of strange remedies for AIDS was prescribed by anybody with the ear of their neighbors. It was believed that having sex with a virgin could cure you and there were a large number of rape with girls, the younger, the better chance they were virgins, and thus even babies were victims of rape.
This complete lack of understanding is not even the peoples fault entirely. Groups who attempt to educate the African's often find themselves stopped by the even the government!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Zuma ^^ Poised to succeed Mbeki, he said he is not worried about getting AIDS from an HIV positive woman he had sex with as he takes, "warm showers"
And the worse of the worse,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe ^^Zimbabwe's president. I have nothing but disdain for him. I did not see a section on AIDS for Mugabi but I know for a fact that he in effect has banned the use of medicines designed to help HIV positive people. Specifically he banned the use of the medicine that prevents pregnant HIV positive women from giving their children AIDS. He tells his people that medicine from the west is, "Poison" and that AIDS is a Myth.
If you look at a distribution of AIDS in Africa, oh look here's one,
Its 2000 but I've seen 2005 studies and everything has simply gotten darker, but Northern Africa is still white.
Were it not for Islam IMO it is likely to conclude that Northern and Central Africa would be more or less like their Southern brethren. But perhaps there are other factors I have not taken into account. But it is my opinion that Northern Africans (with the exception of possibly Egypt) have similar education levels to those in the south, and it follows that HIV would be a much larger problem in the north then it is right now.
If you really want to calculate the damage Aids has done to Africa you have to calculate how many children will NOT be born because of AIDS. My textbook (and its only a textbook) estimated that 300 million children will not be born in the next 50 years because of AIDS.
Those children will not get any education, or learn any skills and will not be able to contribute to the economical prosperity of Africa. Indeed it appears that certain countries in Africa will literally have to wait another generation before there is any hope of modernizing because of all these children who will not be born.
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What claim would you like evidence for, btw? Its not clear what you're asking.
You then spout a lot of statements that seem to have nothing to do with your original position or my counter arguments. I'm hardly denying the existence of AIDS, or many of the problems in combatting AIDS, or the damage done by AIDS, or anything of the sort. So why do you feel the need to point all this out?
You're the one asserting the expansion of certain parts of western culture will lead to more incidences of rape and more teen pregnancies. Give some evidence for that, not for things that aren't being argued.
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What claim would you like evidence for, btw? Its not clear what you're asking.
You then spout a lot of statements that seem to have nothing to do with your original position or my counter arguments. I'm hardly denying the existence of AIDS, or many of the problems in combatting AIDS, or the damage done by AIDS, or anything of the sort. So why do you feel the need to point all this out?
You're the one asserting the expansion of certain parts of western culture will lead to more incidences of rape and more teen pregnancies. Give some evidence for that, not for things that aren't being argued.
Sorry I was asking for at least stats on incidents of rape and teenage pregnancy in Northern Africa and if you were feeling really generous an additional link to at least America stats on the same 2 things.
I don't think Chad and America are as comparable as you are suggesting, and I believe a sentiment of "women as sex objects" leads to behavior such as rape/teenage pregnancy.
Your economist has an opinion and he is welcome to it I simply disagree. I think you failed to realize that in my previous post I said in regards to promiscuity,
quote: This is not the exclusive reason for AIDS in Africa but coupled with another problem its a deadly factor.
The rest of my post was to demonstrate how uneducated African's are to the nature of STD's.
Perhaps the economist you quote is correct and that its simply other STD's that make the transmission of AIDS easier. I personally think that Americans are simply better educated then sub Saharan Africans. You should note that I consider the average American to be "promiscuous." A lack of education and governmental negligence causes Africans to do little to nothing to prevent the spread of HIV and that is what is causing such wide distribution of AIDS.
Most Africans are not even sure about the existence of AIDS, especially when their leaders force their doctors to tell them its a western myth, or that simply eating healthy will prevent it. It does not even enter their minds that sex could spread a disease.
So my arguement is two fold
1: Northern Africans are not as promiscuous as their sub Saharan brethren, celibacy by itself does in fact stop AIDS. You are free to provide stats saying otherwise.
2: Even moderate sexual activity when coupled with a complete lack of good education on the nature of AIDS and STD's causes Africans to much more readily spread AIDS amongst themselves, and the current crisis can only be solved with education.
But hey, thats my opinion, I think its reasonably grounded in fact.
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