Yesterday, I dropped by VW Beetle Key Remote in a puddle. It worked fine immediately afterward (locked and unlocked the door, etc.) but later that night stopped working. I can lock and unlock my doors with the key manually, but cannot deactivate the car alarm manually.
This means that I cannot drive my car, because the car alarm is currently activated. If I try to start the car, the alarm goes off, and there is no way (to my knowledge) to deactivate the car alarm without the remote key.
I called the VW support, and they told me I'd have to take the car to the nearest VW dealership, which in this case is 1.5 hours away. To tow it, I was informed, would be around $300.
That seemed ridiculous, being that the only thing wrong with my car is the key. I only have one key since I bought it used.
I think my family's AAA has a few free tows, that might be able to get my car to the dealership, but I can't believe that there isn't some other way.
Anyone have any ideas?
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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There is no other way, because it isn't just a key these days, it is part of your alarm system. If you have another key they MIGHT be able to read the frequency of the transmission from it and program a new key for you, but more than likely they won't be able to. They have to reprogram both the alarm itself AND the keys, which is why they need to see your car.
To avoid the tow charge, or at least reduce the amount, you could upgrade your families AAA to the unlimited towing option..because if you don't have the it only tows your car a short distance for free. Then wait a couple of days and then have it towed to the dealership.
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Thanks Kwea. I'm going to call the dealership and see what they say.
I'm really busy until Wednesday, so I'm going to see if the key dries out by then, and then deal with the whole thing on Thursday or so.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I would open up the remote and see if there is any residue inside that can be cleaned out. It may just be a little corrosion on the battery contacts, which you can usually clean with a pencil eraser. Also try a new battery.
In any case, the problem is with the remote, not the car, so you ought to be able to resolve it by bringing the remote to the dealership. No towing involved.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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My advice is that you call Car Talk. They may even have good advice, but mostly I think you should call because it would be entertaining. Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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My car alarm has a tiny "valet" button located under the dash (back in the wiring) which can be used to manually over ride the alarm. I'd be surprised if all car alarms don't have a similar system although since it is virtually never used most people don't know about it.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Well, factory alarms don't have "valet" buttons, only aftermarket ones do to my knowledge.
Why it won't start is because you damaged the immobilizer portion of the key. Not only does your laser cut key have to turn the lock cylinder, but the key fob has chip in it that has to be recognized by the vehicle's immobilizer control unit, which is tied into the vehicle's ignition. When you try and start it and the "key" symbol in your instrument cluster won't go out, that means that immobilizer chip in your key is damaged. You will have to get a new key and have it programmed into the car with a factory scan tool. (I'm a car technician. )
It's worth adding to say that if the immobilizer chip in the key is damanged, they need the car to register the new key with the car, so you can't just take the key to the dealer in that situation.
[ April 13, 2008, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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If my TV remote can survive 30 minutes in the washing machine (spin cycle and all!), your vehicle remote should survive a puddle OK (my TV remote didn't work for 3 days; after that, no problems)
Open it up (should have a screw on back, or maybe a small slot to insert a coin or flat head screw driver for prying). Blast it with a blow dryer (warm only) for a few minutes and all should be good.
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
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When we lost the key to my husband's car (the only key), we were told by the dealership that the only way to fix it was to tow it to the dealership...then we called a locksmith. He drove out, checked the title, and made us a new key for $150.
We did NOT have an alarm system/ chip in the key, which would've made it much more expensive, but you might want to call around anyway if drying it out doesn't help. That way at least you wouldn't have to pay for the tow.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Seriously, if this is all the problems that you have with this car... thank your lucky stars. i love my bug but vw loves my money more!!!
Posts: 204 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I've been driving VWs since 2002. They like money. At least the Jetta I have now only has 11k on it. (got it new)
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Haha. Yeah, it was used, 100,000 miles, and took all of the money I had saved up over a 7 month co-op (well, more than that, since my mom forwarded me some).
The car I had before it was the old family minivan, which we all knew was going to die. So I wasn't too worried about the weird sounds it made, or when small things stopped working (windows, inside lights, radio (only worked when it rained), doors, etc.).
Now that I've paid for one though, I get freaked out every time I hear a new noise coming from my beetle.
Whose name is Lily, btw. Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Haha. Yeah, it was used, 100,000 miles, and took all of the money I had saved up over a 7 month co-op (well, more than that, since my mom forwarded me some).
Heh, I just assumed that high tech stuff in the key made it newer. Older cars have character, and by character, I mean problems. Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Immobilizer systems have been around since 2000 I think. I know on some vehicles, you have to replaced the immobilizer control control unit if all master keys are lost. And those are expensive...
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Nick: Immobilizer systems have been around since 2000 I think. I know on some vehicles, you have to replaced the immobilizer control control unit if all master keys are lost. And those are expensive...
In my opinion as an engineer, this is a really significantly bad design. Loosing or damaging your key should not require you to have to tow your car to a dealer and pay for an expensive repair. It would not be that difficult or expensive to include a reasonably secure override procedure.
[ April 16, 2008, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I can't think of a single dealer on the planet that is going to pay for one of its technicians to drive 1.5 hours to fix someone's lock. Not without charging crap loads of money, anyway.
As to an override. What the heck is the point of a vehicle alarm if it has an easily-accesible override? You may as well just leave your key in the ignition, the doors unlocked and a big neon sign saying "FREE CAR!" for all the good it would do.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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For my case, I couldn't believe that even with my key, I couldn't deactivate the alarm. I was holding my key in my hand, and had a couple thousand pound, fully functioning vehicle in front of me, that I had paid for and owned, and yet I couldn't not drive it.
A car is a complicated thing, and those who build them have done a pretty good job making them work very well, in a variety of conditions. To have a small chip in the key immobilize the entire vehicle, though, seems ridiculous.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I called the dealer and spoke with a guy who knew what he was talking about.
He told me to let it dry, which I did, and then try to start the car up again. I had checked the remote locking/unlocking, and that did not work, but hadn't tried to start the car again since the first day (I must say I don't like setting off my car alarm in the middle of a college campus).
When I turned the key to unlock, it did deactivate the alarm (it hadn't done that earlier). I sat down and tried to start the car and got this *click-click-click-click* as the dashboard flashed. I could power the car (radio and air, etc), but not start the car. So that's not a dead battery, right?
Is that the key still? The transmitter or something? The guy on the phone said that there were two things in the key that could get wet, and it looks like one of them works again (deactivated the car alarm) but not the other (transmitter to start the car?).
I imagine you all now know the capacity of my automobile ignorance.
If it is the transmitter, then I will have to tow the car 1.5 hours to have them reprogram it. It'll be around $70 for the new part and $40 for the service, and hopefully nothing for the tow (AAA).
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Seriously, don't you have any local friends with a past. There are people who know how to work around these systems. My daughter, while a Mormon missionary in greater Downtown Detroit, had a new member, with a past, fix her similar problem in just a few minutes. You could then drive to the dealer and have it made right again, without the tow charge.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: I can't think of a single dealer on the planet that is going to pay for one of its technicians to drive 1.5 hours to fix someone's lock. Not without charging crap loads of money, anyway.
As to an override. What the heck is the point of a vehicle alarm if it has an easily-accesible override? You may as well just leave your key in the ignition, the doors unlocked and a big neon sign saying "FREE CAR!" for all the good it would do.
The override doesn't exactly need to be easily accessible to be easier than towing your car to the dealer. It could be as simple as a keypad somewhere in the car where you could enter a suitably long pass code.
The point is that any decent engineer should have considered the possibility of the key being lost and damaged and could have come up with a way to work around that which was reasonably secure.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I think Primal Curve's point is that if the override is easy enough for an owner to use, it's easy enough for a thief to use. Anything secure enough to keep thieves out is going to be complicated enough that it's going to require dealership service. If it's difficult to circumvent the security system, then I take that to be a sign of good engineering.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:I think Primal Curve's point is that if the override is easy enough for an owner to use, it's easy enough for a thief to use. Anything secure enough to keep thieves out is going to be complicated enough that it's going to require dealership service
Without putting much thought into it, I can think of several options that wouldn't require towing the car but would provide reasonable security.
For example, you could have a system that require entering a code, know the location of the console and having the mechanical key. I'm fairly confident that that combination is far far easier for me than it would be for any thief.
Of course nothing is 100% safe. I'm quite certain that sophisticated thieves are still able to steal cars with dealer installed lock out systems that have no simple override. You have to balance the probability that your car will be stolen against the probability that you will be locked out and unable to use it as well as the consequences of both.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:IWhen I turned the key to unlock, it did deactivate the alarm (it hadn't done that earlier). I sat down and tried to start the car and got this *click-click-click-click* as the dashboard flashed. I could power the car (radio and air, etc), but not start the car. So that's not a dead battery, right?
Is that the key still? The transmitter or something? The guy on the phone said that there were two things in the key that could get wet, and it looks like one of them works again (deactivated the car alarm) but not the other (transmitter to start the car?).
Its sound like you have triggered the ignition lockout. In my car deactivating the alarm does not deactivate the ignition lock out. I have to enter a series of commands after I've deactivated the alarm or I can't start the car.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:When I turned the key to unlock, it did deactivate the alarm (it hadn't done that earlier). I sat down and tried to start the car and got this *click-click-click-click* as the dashboard flashed. I could power the car (radio and air, etc), but not start the car. So that's not a dead battery, right?
Actually, it does sound like the battery is low. Where does the "*click-click-click-click*" sound come from? If it sounds like it's coming from the starter motor, then the flashing dashboard could simply be that the starter motor is drawing more current than the battery can supply, and the dash lights go out each time the solenoid makes contact. The dash lights and radio don't draw nearly as much current as the starter motor, so they would work fine as long as your not trying to turn it over. Try jump starting the car.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Nick: Immobilizer systems have been around since 2000 I think. I know on some vehicles, you have to replaced the immobilizer control control unit if all master keys are lost. And those are expensive...
In my opinion as an engineer, this is a really significantly bad design. Loosing or damaging your key should not require you to have to tow your car to a dealer and pay for an expensive repair. It would not be that difficult or expensive to include a reasonably secure override procedure.
I agree Rabbit, and the systems have been designed so you can reprogram them with a factory scan tool now.
This new piece of information about the clicking noise sounds like a classic dead battery. Glenn is right.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Alright. The key is working again now in it's entirety. It can lock and unlock the car remotely.
But...
The car still won't start, and appears as if the battery is dead. Fine, I know how to jump a battery.
But...
I can't get the hood open. For a beetle, the latch is below and left of the steering wheel, and usually I pull that, the hood pops, and out comes a tab at the front of the hood which I then pull and viola! the hood opens.
This time, that little tab doesn't pop out. The hood pops, and opens a little, but there's no tab, and despite me and my friend's best efforts, we could not get the hood open.
Any ideas? Thanks you guys for your help so far.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Is the hood mechanism connected to the alarm or does it require power to operate? That would be unusual, but new cars are doing all sorts of weird stuff.
If so, you may have to take it to the dealer. Alternatively, there are battery chargers that work through your cigarette lighter outlet.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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My only suspicion is that in attempting to use a damaged key, you've activated an alarm feature that is preventing the hood from being opened.
Can you see that tab that usually pops out? You might try grabbing it, or the wire it attaches to, with needle nose pliers. You could also have someone lift up on the hood while you are pulling the lever inside the car to see if that helps.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: And I'm pretty sure it would be the dumbest design ever to have the hood release require power from the battery.
No kidding. I recently had to replace a hood release cable because the handle broke off and the cable started to fray, and I wondered why the hood had a cable-operated release and not a solenoid like the trunk release had. And then I realized how much it would suck if I had to jump-start the car and couldn't even get the hood open.
Of course, you can get the trunk open by using the key instead of the remote release, so I guess they could do the same for the hood. They could hide the lock cylinder under the hood ornament or something.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by MattP: Can you see that tab that usually pops out? You might try grabbing it, or the wire it attaches to, with needle nose pliers. You could also have someone lift up on the hood while you are pulling the lever inside the car to see if that helps.
I can see it, and have tried to pull it with pliers, but it does not budge. We've tried pulling the hood up while I pull on the tab, and even pulling the release latch again, all to to avail.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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did you try pushing down on the hood instead of pulling up? I think some jiggle and push and pull might be in order, probably while one person pulls the release lever.
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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good thoughts, scifibum, but nothing. I have a auto-mechanical minded friend coming to help me out.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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You will have to get a new key and have it programmed into the car with a factory scan tool. (I'm a car technician. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Heh, I just assumed that high tech stuff in the key made it newer. Older cars have character, and by character, I mean problems. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
