posted
Does anyone here homeschool their kids. My fiance and I are planning to have kids as soon as possible after getting married and talking about whether to homeschool them. She was homeschooled herself until third grade and I quit formal schooling before graduating high school, not thinking very much of it. Shes a professional lawyer and well versed in both American and Australian history, and I'm a professional electrician and aspiring writer so we're sure we're qualified.
The system we had in mind would be another two family home evenings for school education on top of the one for church and also letting them go to public school if they can keep good grades, or else we'll teach them full time ourselves.
I know we're thinking years ahead but we really wan our kids to do well. Just wondering what your opinions are on the issue. I should probably mention I'm in Australia and my wifes from America but moved here and got her Law Degree here.
Posts: 75 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
We have a good number of home-schoolers here. Most of them are probably asleep right now, but I'm sure you'll get plenty of good responses in the morning. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm 21 now, but I was homeschooled from 4th to 8th grade and put in high school for 9th and 10th and dropped out after (GED). Homeschooling has it's benifits and drawbacks. I came from a low-income to mid-low income town so the high school was pitiful (acredited with a warning). So homeschooling was benificial in that I taught myself (and my mom helped a little). But the social life isn't there and when I went to high school I was completely lost and took a while to make friends because of the lack of interactions. So if you live in a higher income city or town where the schools are good I would say leave them in school. Just my opinion. Posts: 40 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was homeschooled from kindergarten to the beginning of 4th grade. One piece of advice: make sure that your kids have some other means of developing a social life. That's the sort of thing that usually happens by default in a real school, and they won't get that by staying home all day.
On the other hand, it should be great for their grades.
Posts: 109 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a friend who was homeschooled all through high school (I don't know when she started.). Her education definitely seems to have suffered. Conversing with her, it's obvious that she's intelligent, and she's very knowledgeable about the things she likes (art & literature) but there are a lot of gaps in her knowledge that public school kids of the same intelligence would not have.
Her father is a lawyer; I don't know what formal training her mother has.
My friend didn't start college until she was almost 20 because she was still being homeschooled through high school.
Can homeschooling work? Probably. Do I think it can in every case? Definitely not. This girl is smart, just slightly ignorant of things she would have easily absorbed in a more standard curriculum. Sure, she can learn things later, but it's sad that she has to play catch up like this. (Well, I guess she doesn't have to play catch up if she doesn't want to. But if she does want to, she would have to put a lot more effort into it now than she would have if she had just gone to a regular high school.)
Posts: 3801 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm trying to figure out why you want to homeschool. I've found (after being homeschooled all my life until college) that you can often predict the success of the homeschooling by the parents reasons going into it. My mother was a credentialed teacher and a professional homeschooling consultant for years.
How much of an agenda the parents have, and what the agenda is frequently determines how normal or screwed up the kids are.
If you are trying to prove something you probably shouldn't homeschool your kids.
posted
I'm sure a lot of you are also Latter-day Saints and so have had family home evenings growing up. My fiance and I are palnning to spend another two evenings a week teaching them general curriculum subjects to boost their intellect at an early age. This would have nothing to do with the stuff they were learning at school at the time though.
The incentive to get good grades in order to stay in school is just an idea, probably not a good one though. What do you guys think?
Posts: 75 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm thinking that the personality type that would consider geting to go to school an incentive would not need an incentive to get good grades.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
You also really don't want them to think of staying at home and being taught by y'all as a punishment. How are they supposed to look at the 2 evenings a week you plan on doing regardless, then? Not a good way to get enthusiastic students.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Where I'm coming from is I think a lot of kids go to school to socialise and don't get good grades because they're too busy socialising. Then their parents don't do anything about it because they don't want to take the social outlet of of their childs life.
Posts: 75 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think much of it should be decided by what your reasons are, and what your local school district is like and has to offer.
I know of many people that homeschool their kids with great results. I also know a family, though, that has done very well with their extremely bright kids in public school, because that school is big enough to offer real challenges (like IB programs and such).
I homeschooled two of my kids for a few years, for various reasons, but one went through public school all the way. There are so many factors to consider.
I have no idea how homeschooling is viewed (socially) in Australia as compared to America.
posted
In high school that may be a factor. In elementary school, not so much. And at that age, I don't think they'll have a good enough grasp on cause and effect for your plan to work, anyway. And if your goal in homeschooling is to "boost their intellect at an early age" then we're obviously talking about elementary school here, aren't we?
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Socializing is more important than good grades. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and very often go hand and hand, especially if you cultivate a healthy curiosity about society, but in general, at that age, socializing is more important than good grades. And to be honest, learning how to make good social decisions is almost always more important than good grades. Families, marriages, communities, and relationships very often fall apart for lack of social acumen. I doubt that elementary school grades are as decisive.
I'm not talking about merely learning how to get along with other children; I'm talking about the serious work of developing ones own identity within a society, and having this identity be one that is becoming to the individual and to the society.
You said that you were LDS, and I've always been a fan of the CTR rings adorning fingers of LDS boys and girls, but how can someone develop the wisdom to confidently choose the right, which I submit is the most important aim of education, if you insulate him/her from making those choices, or tacitly insinuate that one should remove oneself from the society where such choices are called for. This is relevant because I'm not sure that the decision to homeschool can cleanse itself of its censuring of the public domain. Unless this issue is addressed exceedingly well, I think that homeschool creates a feeling of otherness, and an otherness which is morally important, as opposed to say otherness of being left-handed.
posted
Public education is a big part of what makes our "National Persona". There may be a few valid reasons (Religous or cultural) for wanting a different culture for your kids. (You need to recognize that different usually isn't better its just different.) However, public school works best for those kids whose parents are interested and involved in their lives, including their education. So, my vote is, send your kids to the public schools, but supplement, supplement, supplement. Spend most of your discretionary time doing things with your kids.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
CTR = Choose the Right. Mormons wear the ring, as I understand, to remind them of their teachings. Humanity was granted free will but it is their choices between good and evil that will determine their afterlife.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote: Socializing is more important than good grades. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and very often go hand and hand, especially if you cultivate a healthy curiosity about society, but in general, at that age, socializing is more important than good grades.
Gah. School does not necessarily equal healthy socializing. I'm not saying homeschooling necessarily does either, but you are totally missing the point.
When in real life, after your education, are you going to be lumped into a group as homogenous as a classroom?
Nowhere. For sure, in my job, the fact that I went through an alternative socialization process to the classroom was the best thing that could have happened to me. The fact that I am able to easily converse with people 15-40 years older than I am as an equal, is a tool that does not come from classroom peer group socialization. Many people struggle in college because they don't know what to do to communicate with people outside their peer group.
Homeschooling socialization is worse, without a doubt, for communicating with people within your age/peer group. But that only matters when you are in a formal school setting, or if your workplace is monotonic. Outside of those two situations, I've got the edge.
The CTR ring is not a major facet of our faith. There's certainly no requirement to wear one. It's a nice reminder, I guess, and great for the kids. Personally, I think of it as Mormon "bling," but that's just me. Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
CTR (Choose the Right) is similar to, but less faith-specific than, the WWJD items that other Christian kids sometimes wear. It is intended simply to be a reminder to make morally correct choices in everyday life. It began as a simple silver and green ring given to children in a particular church class, but has since expanded to all kinds of jewelry worn by people of all ages. My six-year-old son wears a green rubber bracelet that, instead of CTR, has Choose the Right spelled out. He never takes it off, for anything. He enjoyed explaining its significance to his doctors and nurses when he was recently in the hospital for pneumonia.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh cool! The Jews wear the kippah and tzitzit for much of the same reason -- to be respectful of G'd and remind us of the commandments.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
What do you mean by less faith specific than WWJD? I don't really understand what that means. But then I don't know much about WWJD or CTR.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Tante, what are the kippah and tzitzit?
A kippah is what you may have heard called a "skullcap" or a "yarmulke". Jewish men keep their heads covered with a kippah or a hat (or both) all the time. Except like in the shower or in bed.
Jewish women are considered more spiritually attuned and less likely to need the reminder, so we don't wear them.
Tzitzit are the fringes we're commanded to wear on the corners of our garments. It's only required for a four-cornered garment, but Orthodox men wear a poncho shaped undershirt under their shirts specifically in order to do this commandment. Once they are married (or in some communities, at the age of Bar Mitzvah), they also wear a four cornered shawl with tzitzit during prayers.
And again, women don't wear those.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ohh, I see. But in actuality only LDS actually use the CTR sheild and jewelry, or teach it in schools, right? I guess I thought that made it rather LDS specific. It's a nice phrase, though.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah. It's a very LDS phrase, I never heard it until I joined the Church. There are Primary songs about it and stuff.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Public education is a big part of what makes our "National Persona".
This, IMO, is reason enough to homeschool.
My kids- 8, 6, anmd 3- have never been to school. I have come to believe that the main reason- apart from religious, educational, political reasons- to homeschool should be that you want to be with your kids that much. If that's not there, much better to send them to school and volunteer there.
A few of our other, major reasons:
- We feel very drawn to classical education, and you won't find that in a public school.
-Our district has pretty low score. We know that for now, we can do better. However, there is a high school with an IB program that I plan to send our oldest to. (Even though I'll drive past two high schools to get him there)
-The ability for each child to work at his or her own pace.
- My daughter would probably be diagnosed ADHD, and I don't want someone pressuring us to drug her.
-Freedom. We can take a day off when we want, or take a trip to another state without qorrying about anyone else's schedule.
It looks like you have years to make your decision. Seek our home, public and private schoolers who are happy with their choices and find out why. There is no one right decision for everyone, and sometimes not even for every child in a family. Do what is best for those children at the time.
Remember also, you can make the decision one year at a time. That got us through the first couple of years. Good luck!
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
Next question: Why the kippah and tzitzit? What do they signify?
The tziszis symbolize all of G'd's commandments (what we call "mitzvos"). Counting up all the mitzvos in the Torah (Bible) equals 613 mitzvos. The fringes at the four corners of the garment are knotted in a very specific way to total up to 613, so seeing them hanging down is to remind you of the 613 mitzvos.
The kippah is to show respect for G'd above. While in contemporary society, men show respect by doffing their hats, for most of our history, men showed respect by covering their heads, and we maintain that tradition.
These special garments are only for the men. Women do adhere to a more stringent standard of modesty, and, at least for me, this also serves as a reminder of my role to follow the commandments and to respect G'd.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Thanks, starLisa.
Next question: Why the kippah and tzitzit? What do they signify?
Both of them are intended to remind us of God and the commandments He gave us. Remember, "Choose the Right" is a paraphrase of "Behold I have set before you this day life and good and death and evil. And you shall choose life." That's an admonition to keep the commandments, which a kippah and tzitzit helps remind us to do.
[Edited: Okay, obviously I hadn't understood the question. <sheepish grin>]
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote: We're a homeschooling family, though, to be honest, we're not really home all that much.
Amen, sister!
Homeschooling doesn't mean you are at home all day. And I really agree with romanylass-- you have to really want to be with your kids a lot. That's the main thing I love about homeschooling, that I get to be with my kids, and they with me. Learning and growing together.
Posts: 239 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm cutting and pasting a bit of an e-mail I sent to a co-worker who is homeschooling their 7 year old child because of a severe peanut allergy. It's somewhat a memoir of my own homeschooling experience.
"Mom used ABeka grammar workbooks from grade 2 on up. Starting about grade 3 or 4 she'd buy the teacher's edition too. You guys will have to figure out what works for you. However, one of the biggest things that good parents do when they start homeschooling is to try to be too perfect. Logging everything is good. Having a general lesson plan month by month of what you want to get through is also good. But, it's ok to throw it out the window too.
Your kids will learn more by going to the grocery store if you make them find the best buy of a particular item than they will learning it from pictures of pennies nickels and dimes printed in a text book. Mom's rule was, if we got math and reading done, it counted as an "attendance day" (in CA you had to track your school attendance days and be up to a minimum). Obviously there was more we got done most days, but if things fell apart or we got involved in doing a wild project as long as it was remotely educational it counted.
She gave me and another homeschooled kid that she was watching, a screwdriver, a hammer and an old mechanical alarm clock one day, and kicked us out to the back porch to get out of her hair. Man we had fun taking that apart! When they repaved the streets, or a neighbor poured a new driveway we got to stand outside and watch how they did it. She'd find a couple books on the subject as well. When the guy came to read the water or gas meter, we read it too.
History, science and social studies were done at the lower levels primarily through field trips and books at the local library, which was visited as religiously as church (possibly more). When I was six, I won the library summer reading contest. Admittedly my parents had a competitive streak too. At that time the limit was 10 books per day. We went every day for a couple months so that we could get another ten books, and return the previous ten. They were picture books but all of them had to be written down so they could tell if you repeated. And you were interviewed every day by a volunteer who picked two books at random and asked basic plot info on them to make sure you'd actually read them.
Get a membership to a zoo or the fields museum or aquarium (Do they have ones that cover more than one location?) Take the kids there. Let them spend hours looking at whatever they want. No rush, no hurry, you are there at midday during the school year... no crowds. Being there is better than the Discovery channel. Get a first or second grade science text book for your own reference and you'll see how Mickey mouse they are. It's good for tracking to make sure you don't miss something major though. But, condensing it down to a book takes most of the interesting stuff out. There are a lot more historic sites here in Illinois than there were in CA as well, those are great for field trips too. Sometimes the homeschoolers organize as a tour group, but there's nothing to stop you from going on your own either.
The goal is to teach your kids to be independent learners. In a homeschool environment you don't want to be doing songs and dances in front of a blackboard all day. When you consider how much time is spent giving individual attention to each child in class, with only two kids, you shouldn't be doing true academic "school" for more than 2 hours a day maximum at the lower levels. Even when you start blending in more history and science texts, I'd say 3 was my maximum. Now I could procrastinate and drag it out all day if I felt like it, but I also could churn through it and be done pretty quickly. We also had to practice the piano for 15 minutes to an hour every day depending on the level we were at.
I don't know your wife's housekeeping style. However, I'd say my brothers and I were also much happier than the homeschooling parents who also insisted on a spotless house. Now admittedly some people are just more organized than others and able to pull a cleaner house off. However, our dining room table was always covered in the latest project, construction paper, Elmer's glue, sawdust, fabric, you name it. (California doesn't have basements though, so a basement might have been useful) During Christmas time, we would do cookie dough production lines, and have flour and cinnamon coating the the floor.
The solar system was down the hallway, Mom used bulletin board decorations with the little name tags so that we learned them. When they discovered Pluto's moon Charon we cut a moon out of construction paper and taped it to Pluto. And when Pluto and Uranus reversed orbits we swapped the order, (she explained what an ellipse was too). We had a counting chart times table all the way up to 12*12= 144 hung in the dining room. If we were doing a math test we had to go into a different room, we weren't allowed to take it in the dining room where we normally worked because of the times table. But now I can shut my eyes, and sit at the dinner table and read you that times table off. It was more osmosis than rote memorization."
posted
I just within the last year learned there were homeschooling parents who didn't go about it the way AJ's mom did. I wasn't homeschooled, but we did lots of similar things, went to the library every week, museums even small ones lots of people forget about, for a while my mom even had me reading books within a theme, like if I was reading a chapter book about a certain time frame then I'd get a nonfiction book too. Also, I've noticed now, the homeschooled kids I met that did "extra curriculars" like 4-H, or some sports were more interesting people than the ones that didn't. But I have little justification in this. I am an elementary education major if that helps.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:The system we had in mind would be another two family home evenings for school education on top of the one for church and also letting them go to public school if they can keep good grades, or else we'll teach them full time ourselves.
I know this has been touched on, but I just don't get this at all. Most first graders don't really enjoy going to school just to socialize and have fun, do they? I remember liking kindergarten, but I hated the boredom of first grade. And on top of that you're going to make them spend three evenings a week in extra homeschooling, plus homework every night? And then if their grades drop with all of that, you're going to take them out of school, after having just gotten used to it?
Ugh. That seems a bit harsh for first graders. But then, you're at least six years away from this decision. I don't think that you need to be this worried about making sure your kids get ahead. They have a lot to learn at that age besides book learning and learning formal education faster isn't necessarily the best thing in the long run.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
We did a lot of that stuff AJ wrote about while attending public schools. That's another option you might want to consider if you're really mostly worried about your kids having a love of learning and getting a better education than's available at the local public school. (Ours were quite good, actually, but we were VERY gifted kids with other needs, and the GATE program just didn't cut it for us.) Our parents took us to museums, concerts, cultural experiences, zoos, street fairs, anything that we were interested in, and then when we came up with questions about something we'd seen, we'd raid the library-- we were there AT LEAST once a week-- and read all we could about it. We spent half a year on the ancient Celts when we were 4 and 7, went on a pioneer kick a few years after that, and when we were 5 and 8, started at San Diego (we grew up in CA) and camped our way up the state, hitting all the missions on the way. Every single one, over the course of two weeks. (My favorite was La Purisima, where they have living history exhibits and all kinds of stuff.) When we were 7 and 10, we backpacked in Point Reyes National Seashore with my dad and his friend (we'd been hiking in the mountains almost every fair weekend since we were 3 and 6 and car-camping since before I can remember, so we were in pretty good condition), carrying in about half our body weights on our backs, and learned about animals, plants, and weather, as well as gaining even more appreciation for historical conditions of those who had to live without plumbing, sewage, and indoor stoves! My dad was always in a band, and we were allowed and encouraged to play with his instruments as well as to hang around at their parties and practices and sing with them. We went to folk music festivals and joined in the general music-making.
Those are just a few of the highlights of my childhood. There are all kinds of ways to enrich a regular public school cirriculum. Why don't you wait until you have kids who are school age (or near it) and evaluate your situation and needs then? Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, and then there was the garden. And preparing and canning the stuff that grew in the garden.
Did I mention that where we lived, you had to hoe out about three feet of rocks before you can grow anything?
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
As an aside, I would like to suggest that new parents listen to advice, but weigh the advice according to its source.
Obviously, we have some really knowledgeable homeschoolers here. Also, many people involved in education visit Hatrack, and we all wish our children could be guaranteed teacher like that. *smooches Jenny Gardener*
But taking general parenting advice from the child-free is similar to taking sex advice from a virgin. They may have read lots of books and talked to lots of people who know lots of things. They may have lots of interesting ideas and detailed plans for How It Should Be Done. Their advice may even be quite solid. However, in most cases, experience remains the best teacher of all. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was homeschooled from 3rd grade through highschool, and I'm happy with where I am socially and educationally (BS and MS from top 20 US university).
Homeschooling, if done correctly, can be an amazing experience. I know my experience was, and I wouldn't change a thing. That said, I could go into a long rant about what I see wrong with things in the homeschooling community, especially the typical Christian Fundamentalist reasoning and methodology. I won't, unless asked.
Needless to say, I a complete education involves both social skills and mental skills. Any educational program that does not equip a student with both sets of skills is not working properly. This is just more of a likelyhood in homeschooling... especially in some circles.
Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
Not only do I not have children, I interact with bad parents every day; parents who are screw it up every waking day.
___
But as a rule, I find it the whole, "Experience is the best teacher" is simple to the point of idiotic, especially when we get to important issues like violence, heroin, marriage, and child-rearing.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
Also, many people involved in education visit Hatrack, and we all wish our children could be guaranteed teacher like that. *smooches Jenny Gardener*![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
