posted
You may be right vonk in that we are reading into this in different ways but Nathan has said "The paw is still hanging off, and neither my mother or I are going to cut it off." This strikes me as saying that this cat is not in good shape. Nathan and his mother didnt cut it off beceuse they are squeamish about doing it. But when a cats paw is hanging off to the extent that cutting it off is even an option then there is something seriously wrong.
This isnt an attack on Nathan or his mother it just seems obvious to me that seeking medical attention is the only solution. As Leonide has said "Wait and see" is not a viable option.
Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I completely agree that the kitten should be taken a vet immediately, but don't rag on Nathan for what his mother won't do.
Against my better judgment, I'm back.
Look: I'm not ragging on this young man for what his mother won't do. I would and have ragged on him for continuing to post about graphic details here in a "gee, I wonder what's going to happen" kind of way.
His mother isn't typing for him, katharina.
If he'd said, "you know, my mother isn't comfortable with having anyone else involved," then so be it. Not his responsibility. But that isn't what happened.
What did happen:
1. He posts a request for help because the "kitten may die" on Memorial weekend.
2. I offer to help out by payment and/or by helping arrange things. I do not email him directly, but leave an email he can contact me at if he chooses. I also offer to speak to his mother if she prefers.
3. He emails me after checking with his mother first, using her email.
4. Then follows some three days of sporadic emails, commitments to take the cat in but then "things come up," and a few posts on the original thread.
5. Then he posts here, again going into graphic detail and musing how far the rotting will spread. That is what made me angry. It is the blase approach to suffering for which he had requested help and had taken further steps to seek out. If I hadn't been directly contacted myself and had spent hours pulling this together (predicated on promises to follow through) and just sat here and read this nonchalant redescription of protruding bone and decaying flesh -- well, I certainly wouldn't have been angry at him for having accidentally mutilated a kitten, or for having a mother who doesn't want to take it in for treatment.
That isn't the issue.
---
Edited to add: Sure, I can also see having reservations about getting involved with strangers. That is why I didn't email him directly, but waited for him to check with his mother and email me instead.
And other than a general location to figure out what clinics and shelters are available, I have asked for no identifying details -- no last names, no phone numbers, nothing. The payment would have been arranged without any direct contact between me and the family.
quote:I completely agree that the kitten should be taken a vet immediately, but don't rag on Nathan for what his mother won't do.
Nathan may not be an "adult", but he sure is old enough to think for himself. This cat needs professional help, his mother can't force him to not help it. Our parents aren't always right.
The part of this that is absolutely outrageous to me is that he caused this injury himself. By accident of course, but I don't think that should absolve him of all responsibility. And the fact that someone has volunteered to pay for should make this a no brainer. Some of you are harping on the fact that some random stranger on the internet has offered to pay for it and you would be uncomfortable accepting that, but I don't understand why. So what? What does it matter if it's a stranger, or Bill Gates, or President Bush offering to pick up expenses? Nathan and his mom don't need to meet her, take her out to dinner, invite her over their house, give her any personal information...NOTHING. All they would have to do is drive the cat to vet and leave it there. The vet can only recommend euthanasia, they can't just perform it on their own. They can always take the cat to a no kill shelter if they are in any way worried about that possibility.
As much as Nathan is doing from his end, it's not enough. And I'm pretty sure what's going on DOES meet the definition of animal cruelty.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
So your angry because he broke a tacit internet agreement with you and seems too blase about the incident? He's not allowed to be curious about what is going on with the cat he's trying to save or discuss on a forum what effects different symptoms will have?
It's a judgement call. You think what you think is the best. He thinks what he thinks is the best. His mom thinks what his mom thinks is the best. He and his mom have the kitten, so that's what matters. They are doing the very best they can to help the cat and are making their decisions based on what they think is in the cat's best interest. You don't agree with them. Fine, but that doesn't necessarily make them wrong and you right.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: She's "completely opposed" to it, not she doesn't feel like doing it herself. If he were to take it, it would be going against the wishes of his mother.
The vet or the shelter would have sent someone out to pick the kitten up.
Again, I can understand making the decision not to take the animal in for treatment. I think that is the wrong decision, but I wouldn't lose my temper over it. I did lose my temper over having been invited into the situation and then no follow through while these graphic reports keep getting posted.
I haven't checked that email account since I left an angry post here, but I checked it before I posted. No message from him for the prior day and a half -- no "My mom doesn't want to do this anymore," nothing. Just a meandering post here:
quote:[excerpted] The paw is still hanging off, and neither my mother or I are going to cut it off. That's just a bit much for either of us. The bone that formed the paw is still visible, and I don't know what will happen to it. I think that bones rot... But if it does, will it stop when it hits 'healthy' bone? Or will it just procede to go up the leg. This is by far the most serious problem I think we've faced as of yet. We can keep the wound and skin clean, but what do you do about bone?
What's the point of that?
In retrospect, I always hate it when I lose my cool, and I regret this. I just was fed up with the Adventures of Nathan2006, Young Frontier Veterinarian, coming in technicolor to a screen near you.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
vonk, I can appreciate that you don't have quite the emotional reaction to hearing of an injured kitten that many of us do, but your excuses for Nathan are wearing thin.
The bottom line is, the kitten needs more help than Nathan and his family can give it. And it should be taken to the vet for additional care and help. There's no use arguing semantics, "does Nathan mean this, should he have done that, is it his fault" when there is an animal that needs help.
Zeugma, I don't think your argument applies to this situation. On this I will argue semantics, because if a starving Sudanese child fell on your doorstep, you'd feed her and do everything you could to prevent her suffering. But that doesn't mean you're doing anything for the thousands of starving Sudanese children half a world away. Does it lessen the impact of helping one individual when you're not doing anything to help the larger suffering population? I submit that it does not.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: So your angry because he broke a tacit internet agreement with you and seems too blase about the incident?
You need to look up the definition of "tacit," vonk.
quote:He's not allowed to be curious about what is going on with the cat he's trying to save or discuss on a forum what effects different symptoms will have?
Allowed? Sure. I didn't stop him. It is -- in my judgment, granted -- reprehensible behavior, giving that it is predicated on prolonging unnecessary pain and suffering. But I won't stop him from doing it or reporting it. Speaking out against it isn't stopping him.
quote:It's a judgement call. You think what you think is the best. He thinks what he thinks is the best. His mom thinks what his mom thinks is the best. He and his mom have the kitten, so that's what matters.
No quibble on my part, other than a note that "thinks is the best" is likely predicated on a lot of things other than the kitten's welfare, which would not be [unexpected]. [This is true for most decisions in life -- they are multifactorial.]
quote:They are doing the very best they can to help the cat and are making their decisions based on what they think is in the cat's best interest.
I cannot see how this follows from the information available, but I understand this is your belief, for whatever reason.
quote:You don't agree with them. Fine, but that doesn't necessarily make them wrong and you right.
As is always the case, I'd think.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Perhaps the request for help in the thread title was the cause of confusion. Maybe it wouldn't couse such a problem if it were something like, "Kitten May Die...Come watch!". Then people would have known what to expect.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Zeugma, having been a veterinary technician student, I am familiar with the scenarios you describe. I don't think killing an animal in a supervised, sterile laboratory environment, with proper anesthetic and with a specific purpose, is quite the same as inadvertantly mutilating an animal trapped in your car and then not taking it for proper medical care, instead deciding to watch the spread of infection and the eventual falling off of the limb for the sake of knowledge. (if we use your hypothetical, and assume this is what's happening)
Cats are *incredibly* resistant to certain kinds of pain, in that they can hide hurt very well. This is a learned, evolved reaction, to prevent them from seeming injured to possible predators. That's not necessarily what's occurring with this kitten, who Nathan describes as not seeming in pain, but it might be.
There's a reason we all cringe reading about Peter gutting the squirrel in the woods in Ender's Game, even once we understand that he was learning from it. You can't just take it upon yourself to decide an animal is a good science experiment.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Nathan, if you're still reading this - and I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't, can I just suggest one thing?
Call an animal rescue service that will come get the cat and take it off your hands. You and your mom have done an admirable job, and I appreciate your mother not wanting to contribute to the death of the cat, but let someone who is a professional make the determination. I'm going to be blunt and honest here - regardless of how active it seems right now, regardless of all the good signs you've seen I feel pretty confident that kitten is going to die, and probably in a very painful and excruciating process.
Let someone who does this type of thing every day handle the situation. What happened was an accident, you didn't hurt the cat on purpose, but at this point, it's time to let the cat die as humanely as possible, or if it can be saved, get it into the hands of professionals that will be able to properly care for it.
What happens if the cat lives? It will need constant care and attention, it won't be able to adequately fend for itself as a feral cat, and unless you're willing to invest the time and money to care for a disabled animal the rest of its life (and that cost will be considerable), then the best thing to do is put the animal down.
I guess what I'm saying is, make a decisions. Quit sitting on the fence. Either decide you will be devoted to this animal's welfare and will save it and care for it the rest of its life or let it die. If you choose the first, you will, as a responsible pet owner, need to get it veterinary attention. That attention is going to be very expensive. If you're not willing to make that investment of time and money, then you are not prepared to be this cat's owner and you need to let one of the organizations that offered to come pick it up come get it so it can be put down.
Please consider acting though, instead of this observatory inaction which I fear will only lead to suffering and death for the animal.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:I don't think you get to suddenly start getting holier than thou at someone for making the wrong choice in an issue you didn't give a darn about 5 minutes before you read his initial post. If you care about the welfare of kittens, then get your butt down to the animal shelter right down the street instead of wasting time vilifying some random kid on the internet.
You don't need to personally attack me. And we're not talking about the "welfare of kittens" we're talking about the welfare of THIS ONE kitten. And i do volunteer at my local no-kill shelter. Do I need to be actively involved in a cause to have an opinion on it? I don't think there's enough time in a life-span to devote oneself to solving all the problems in this world. I'm not being holier-than-thou. I think this situation is a lot less grey than we're making it out to be. Your mileage may vary.
I had a kitten that I fostered for a few months that had no back left leg. That is, the leg ended at the knee. Some days this stump would get her own feces on it, and litter would cling. One day I guess the litter actually sliced open the stump of her leg, and then further feces and litter got in the wound and made it bleed. I could have cleaned the wound, bandaged it, and let her run about. Cats do have their own natural protections, just as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. However, instead I took her to the vet. Because I'm not qualified to decide that a wound is within my means to heal.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Well, it seemed tacit to me. Did he state that he would take it to someone, or that he would see about it, or call later, or hear back from them soon? It seemed like the latter to me.
I guess I just disagree that it's reprehensible. It seemed fine to me, if a little gross. I also don't think it is predicated by suffering. I think you're assuming the cat is unnecessarily suffering. But you're right in that you're free to comment however you like.
I meant "thinks is best" for the cat. I cannot see how you cannot see how this follows. It seems obvious to me.
quote:The bottom line is, the kitten needs more help than Nathan and his family can give it.
In your opinion. The reason my arguments are wearing thin is because I have to repeat them in response to the same accusation over and over again.
quote:Perhaps the request for help in the thread title was the cause of confusion. Maybe it wouldn't couse such a problem if it were something like, "Kitten May Die...Come watch!". Then people would have known what to expect.
That's kinda mean. I think all of the insinuations that Nathan is doing this for thrills or as an experiment or to learn from the pain or whatever are over the top and insulting. If I were Nathan I would be incredibly offended.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I wonder if the squirrels ever thought, "this kid's going to grow up to be Hegemon some day."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Is Nathan or his mother qualified to dispense anethesia to an animal? To prescribe medication? Do either of them know how to stitch a wound? Amputate a limb?
Based on what Nathan has told us about this particular situation, he is not qualified to give the kitten help. Things might pan out fine anyway, just because of the nature of the wound, which of course I have no first-hand experience with. Based on his statements, though, and his own admission, his family is not competent enough medically to treat or diagnose this kitten.
posted
Deliberately harming an animal and harming an animal through purposeful inaction aren't very much different, in my mind.
I don't think the beagle puppies reason at all, so I'm not sure I understand your question. I think it's necessary to euthanize animals to further our knowledge of the brain, AND i think it's necessary to train future veterinarians to be able to perform their jobs in helping animals in pain.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I don't know whether there really is exposed bone, though. Nathan isn't trained to assess clinically, and he could be seeing (for example) the taut white sheen of a thick muscle fascia, which can look like bone to the untrained eye. That is why I really think the kitten should be assessed, and a professional opinion could be rendered.
At that point, it would have been up to the family with the kitten to decide what to do. But at least the wound could have been properly cleaned and a accurate assessment of prognosis given, regardless of what they chose to do next.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: Well, it seemed tacit to me. Did he state that he would take it to someone, or that he would see about it, or call later, or hear back from them soon? It seemed like the latter to me.
vonk, I don't think you have been reading my posts since you started this line of questioning. I have been corresponding with him via (his mother's) email, and he stated he would be taking it in.
Each time he said he would be taking it in ("when my mom gets home from work," or "tomorrow," or what have you) I would call again to make sure the current shift at the vet's office had my contact information.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
CT, consider you own supply of emotional energy - don't let this incident drain it. You did all you could, you cannot force people to do what you think is right (if only we could), so walk away.
I don't want to see you upset over it any longer. *hugs*
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I was basing what I said on the first hand information in this thread. Even if it wasn't tacit, my point still stands. I understand getting upset about someone leading you on and giving you cause to do research that turns out to be useless, but I don't think that necessarily merits attacks on what he's actually doing to help the cat, or his motives behind posting about it here.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:If I were Nathan I would be incredibly offended.
And if you were the kitten, you'd be damn near dead. What's your point?
The kid's not qualified to assess the severity of the injury or to treat said injury. He's responsible for the accident (however indirectly), and even though every one of his objections against taking the kitten to a professional have been met he still refuses to do so (offering the excellent excuse, "Man, yesterday was hectic...wow, that bone's really coming through now!").
Not only that, but he continues to post graphic accounts of the kitten's condition, and musings about whether or not it'll get better.
In an instance like this, the only humane thing to do is to take the animal to someone who knows what the hell they're looking at, so they can make a professional diagnosis and decide whether or not the injury's treatable.
I'm sure Nathan and his mom mean well, but they're doing a good thing badly.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
If I were the kitten I wouldn't give a crap. I'd be a kitten and without the mental capacity to dwell on things like self-worth and an emmanent end to my being.
I still don't think he's responsible for the incident in the first place. The kitten climbed in his engine. He turned on the car. I think it's the kitten's fault and it should have to clean the blood stains off his belt. (ETA - Apologies for the snarkiness, but assigning blame in this case is unfair. It was a coincidence and not Nathan's fault)
quote:Not only that, but he continues to post graffic accounts of the kitten's condition, and musings about whether or not it'll get better.
Why is this a bad thing? I guess if you don't like graphic stories it offends the sensabilities, but he put severe grossness warnings up once asked to.
I'm not gonna bow out of this discussion or anything, but I'm really not terribly emotionally involved in this. I don't want to upset anyone or anything so I'm gonna try to stop getting too involved. I just wanted to get in here an let Nathan know, if he's still around, that not everyone thinks he's doing something horrible. Hey Nathan! I think you're doing a good job!
quote:Originally posted by Belle: CT, consider you own supply of emotional energy - don't let this incident drain it. You did all you could, you cannot force people to do what you think is right (if only we could), so walk away.
I don't want to see you upset over it any longer. *hugs*
I know. And my own emotional reactions do not aid the situation, regardless.
quote:(ETA - Apologies for the snarkiness, but assigning blame in this case is unfair. It was a coincidence and not Nathan's fault)
Blame and responsibility aren't the same thing. This is a blameless accident, IMO. But Nathan does bear some responsibility for this. Of that there's no doubt.
I think his attempt to take care of the kitten was very honorable, and his actions since then have been less and less so.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:I think all of the insinuations that Nathan is doing this for thrills or as an experiment or to learn from the pain or whatever are over the top and insulting. If I were Nathan I would be incredibly offended.
I totally agree. People are being incredibly unfair to Nathan. Telling him to take the cat to the vet is one thing. Insulting his character and reading unwarranted motivations is another.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Wow, just read the Gossip thread on Sakeriver. Whenever the responses in a thread seem WAY over the top, you can usually trace it back to the groupthink stupidity that flares up in that thread. I find it shocking and disappointing how ugly some of you guys can be.
Nathan's intent is clearly good. I read his descriptions of the cat as being scientically interested, but not removed from compassion. He's obviously going out of his way to take care of the cat. A vet would be good, but not going to the vet doesn't make him this heinous villain. It certainly doesn't merit the kind of treatment he's been getting.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Most of the people who posted on that thread have refrained from posting here. (Yes, I counted.) Some of the people who have posted here expressing concern don't post there. It's also quite possible that this is just a devicive issue that people have strong opinions on.
I also think part of the problem here is a rural/urban divide as to what sort of measures/expenses are appropriate with domestic animals.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Even if they're not posting in the Sake thread, I think you're wrong if you're saying the responses on that thread don't impact the people who read it (which is likely a substantial number of people that have posted in this thread). When somebody held in high esteem by a perceived private group is hurt/angered, I think the other people in that group tend to try and be supportive- sometimes to the unmerited detriment of the person that hurt or angered the first person.
And I agree with the rural/urban divide hypothesis.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I agree with you to a point, which is one of the reasons that I have not been participating in this thread. I have nothing new to add, and if the people who have already posted don't sway Nathan my voice probably won't help. I do think that there are a couple of people who have posted here expressing concern who don't read sake at all, and I will point out that there are three who are members of sake (four, including you!) who have spoken on Nathan's behalf. So while I can see where you're coming from, I still disagree that it's as strong an influence as you think.
Because really, the kitten's paw is hanging off. You don't think a considerable number of people would be upset by that regardless of if CT was or not?
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I don't think chalking the comments here up to "groupthink" is doing anyone justice, in fact, don't you think it's comparable to assigning unverifiable motives to Nathan?
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Well I wish it were only being discussed in one place, so we could all join in. I don't want to be involved in the same argument in two different forums at the same time. At least you can curse people out over there without having to be involved in the conversation.
posted
Me, I'd just rather see Nathan take the cat to the friggin' vet already, and not discuss this any more than necessary.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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We are required by law to beat every topic, its underlying concepts and premises, and any ancillary semantical and personal arguments that might crop up to a bloody, submissive pulp.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
You know, I'm actually fine with that. But can we beat the topic to a pulp after we have dealt with the dying kitten?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I think it is very generous of CT to arrange payment for the kitten's professional medical treatment. I would have been grateful and taken the kitten to the vet. It seems to me the longer the time between the injury and the professional treatment, the more expensive the treatment will be, and that waitingand/or procrastinating is inconsiderate to CT. Injuring the cat may have been an accident, but it is still Nathan's responsibility to do all that he can to repair the damage done. I just don't see where prolonging the recovery or death of the kitten is the responsible thing to do.
Posts: 1379 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I have whistled my angry post and have asked Papa Janitor to review the thread, consider my possible violation of the TOS, and consider locking the thread.
Just FYI so that he doesn't get a gazillion requests to deal with.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Because really, the kitten's paw is hanging off. You don't think a considerable number of people would be upset by that regardless of if CT was or not?
No, I get your point. People can have strong opinions about an emotional issue without any secondary source. But I think there is a level of vitriol in this thread that seems hightened beyond the information that is presented in this thread alone.
What really angered me enough to write the post that first mentioned Sake was reading JT's comments to vonk on Sakeriver as well as the general attitude there that Nathan must be a horrid human being. You can see the difference between my reactions in my posts after reading this thread and after reading the Sakeriver thread. That thread was just nasty.
quote:I don't think chalking the comments here up to "groupthink" is doing anyone justice, in fact, don't you think it's comparable to assigning unverifiable motives to Nathan?
Perhaps it was not completely just. I do think that thread tends to encourage more negative than positive behaviors.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:What really angered me enough to write the post that first mentioned Sake was reading JT's comments to vonk on Sakeriver as well as the general attitude there that Nathan must be a horrid human being
I haven't seen anyone on that OR this thread call Nathan a "horrid human being." I think quite a few of us are shocked at his choices in handling the situation, and in relaying the information to us here. Regardless of his age or his mother's reticence against veterinary care and/or euthenasia, they obviously care enough about the kitten to give it a modicum of care: why do they stop at self-administered medications?
Disagreeing strongly with someone's actions is not even in the same REALM as thinking they are a horrible person.
quote:I do think that thread tends to encourage more negative than positive behaviors.
You are not the first to say so. I still don't see what that has to do with the topic at hand.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I don't think he's a horrible person. He is only young and inexperience. I don't know how many animals I've bought into the house as a teenager wanting to save them, with less than favourable results. There was that seagul to consider... They would not let me take it into my school And the squirrell a cat of mine tried to eat that didnt' survive, but a bird that was in shock I found did... It's hard to know what to do in these situations...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Amanecer: What really angered me enough to write the post that first mentioned Sake was reading JT's comments to vonk on Sakeriver as well as the general attitude there that Nathan must be a horrid human being.
I have read and reread that thread -- as well as this one -- and I don't see anyone saying that Nathan2006 must be a "horrid human being" or "questioning his humanity" (which has also been attributed to this discussion). The only person who makes claims about Nathan2006 himself is Zeugma, who is characterizing the position opposing hers.
I do, however, see a lot of people criticizing his behavior. That is not the same as calling him a "monster" or a "horrid human being."
I can understand why calling someone a "monster" or a "horrid human being" -- especially given his probably youth -- would elicit responses such as "disgusting" or "nasty." But you are attributing those words to criticism of his behavior, which I do not think is warranted. I don't think saying someone's behavior is "appalling" and "has no excuse" -- when we are talking about a situation like this -- is beyond the pale.
---
Edited to add: Or, what Leonide said more succinctly.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote: Perhaps the suffering of a small helpless creature is secondary in importance to the attention one gets by describing it?
quote:Holy crap. What is wrong with people??!
quote:Any other explanations for this behavior... are just too sick to contemplate.
quote:The original poster is probably getting descriptions from books and enjoying grossing us out, or not telling us the whole truth, and/or embellishing.
I think this goes far beyond disagreeing with someone's actions and goes into character attacks.
quote:You are not the first to say so. I still don't see what that has to do with the topic at hand.
It has to do with the topic at hand because I suggested the extremeness of responses might be related to the poor behaviors encouraged by the thread.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote: Perhaps the suffering of a small helpless creature is secondary in importance to the attention one gets by describing it?
quote:Holy crap. What is wrong with people??!
quote:Any other explanations for this behavior... are just too sick to contemplate.
quote:The original poster is probably getting descriptions from books and enjoying grossing us out, or not telling us the whole truth, and/or embellishing.
I think this goes far beyond disagreeing with someone's actions and goes into character attacks.
I don't see raising possible interpretations ("perhaps," "probably") as the same as specifically calling someone a "monster" or a "horrid human being", although I accept that you do.
The only quotation you listed that is mine -- "Any other explanations for this behavior... are just too sick to contemplate" -- was taken out of a list of other possible explanations, which I thought were both more likely and stated I hoped to be true instead. That's very different from what you imply above.
---
I also have stated that I regret having flown off the handle and wish I had dealt with it better. I still do. That hasn't changed. But I have not called anyone a monster, although I have said I find given behaviors appalling and/or incomprehensible.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:The original poster is probably getting descriptions from books and enjoying grossing us out, or not telling us the whole truth, and/or embellishing.
This one is mine and correlates directly with the post I made in this thread:
quote:Personally, I don't think the kitten exists. It's a hoax.
I question the veracity of his statements in both. It's the internet, and I don't know this kid, and kids make things up sometimes, possibly for attention. He tells his story and he posts updates, yet conveniently there's no way to resolve the issue so the story (and the attention) continues. Just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong for voicing it or for suggesting he might not be telling the whole (or any) truth.
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I think I'm going to time-out this thread for a day. There's not a specific post that drives me to lock it, but I think some energy needs to drain off it before it should continue.
I'm aware of the thread referenced on the other website, but what happens there frankly isn't in my purview.
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