posted
Even though the media doesn't consider it worth reporting, the Arabs in Gaza have continued to fire rockets into the middle of the town of Sderot without let up since the Israeli government unwisely rendered the 9000 Jews living there homeless and gave their towns to the terrorists.
There's a certain irony here, of course, because the folks in Sderot were by and large huge supporters of the deportations and the abandonment of Gaza. Most of them now... well, let's just say that they've had a little change of heart.
Anyway, the children in Sderot have been having a hard time of it, as you might suspect. But they know that running away isn't really a solution. I mean, running away from Gaza is what got them into this mess in the first place, right? So a school teacher in Sderot came up with a way to stop the kids from freaking out.
The truth is, I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm glad that this woman has found a way to destress the situation for the children. But it smacks strongly of the frog-in-a-pot thing. All they're really doing is helping people get used to the hotter water rather than finding a way to turn down the heat before they get boiled alive.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Fire 100 rockets back for every rocket fired into Israel. For every Israeli kidnapped execute 100 Palestinians, for every dollar spent defending Israel makes sure that they have to replace 100$ more, for every vehicle blown up destroy 50 of there's, for every home destroyed bulldoze 50 of theirs.
If in 5 years they still keep at it at least there won't be enough of them left for the world to make a fuss out of deporting them somewhere nice.
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I'm confused about who homeless. 9000 Jews from Gaza? Because the way your sentence reads now, it sounds like the terrorists are bombing themselves.
As for whether reducing their anxiety is impacting necessary readiness... I don't know.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fire 100 rockets back for every rocket fired into Israel. For every Israeli kidnapped execute 100 Palestinians, for every dollar spent defending Israel makes sure that they have to replace 100$ more, for every vehicle blown up destroy 50 of there's, for every home destroyed bulldoze 50 of theirs.
If in 5 years they still keep at it at least there won't be enough of them left for the world to make a fuss out of deporting them somewhere nice.
That's about on the same level as Tancredo's "let's bomb Mecca to get the terrorists to stop attacking us" idea.
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posted
For the record, in those cases where I advocate running I generally recommend running out of enemy range before stopping Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Fire 100 rockets back for every rocket fired into Israel. For every Israeli kidnapped execute 100 Palestinians, for every dollar spent defending Israel makes sure that they have to replace 100$ more, for every vehicle blown up destroy 50 of there's, for every home destroyed bulldoze 50 of theirs.
Taking a Chinese approach to the problem, eh? *grin*
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posted
What's happening? Israel pulled people from settlements, the people stayed in the Palestinian territory anyway, and now the Palestinians are bombing them out?
Why didn't they leave when Israel originally pulled the illegal settlements?
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: I'm confused about who homeless. 9000 Jews from Gaza? Because the way your sentence reads now, it sounds like the terrorists are bombing themselves.
Sderot isn't in Gaza. It's near Gaza. And yes, the 9000 Jews who had lived in Gaza were expelled by the Israeli government, and their towns turned over to the Arabs, who (of course) immediately started using the towns as a staging ground for more attacks on Israel.
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posted
Blayne, you need to be slapped.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
The strategy of using overwhelming force to break the enemies will originates in tactical thinking with Von Clauswitz, it is also very effective way of suppresses uprisings and guerrilla insurgencies. I roughly recall starting a thread on the subject some many years ago.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: What's happening? Israel pulled people from settlements, the people stayed in the Palestinian territory anyway, and now the Palestinians are bombing them out?
Why didn't they leave when Israel originally pulled the illegal settlements?
Okay, this is obviously my fault. I didn't explain well enough. The town of Sderot is not in Gaza or any other "disputed" area. But like some of us have been saying all along, the Palestinians aren't interested in the "occupied territories". They want Israel gone. As far as they're concerned, every last square centimeter of the middle east is Arab land, and they will never accept Israel's existence.
People want to make peace in the middle east, but the two sides want different things. Israel wants to exist. The Palestinians want Israel not to exist. Where is there middle ground there?
I remember back in 2005, when the explusion was growing near, being told that it was worth throwing 9000 innocent people out of their homes to make this gesture to the Arabs. I said at the time (and it wasn't just me, but I did say it) that every time such "gestures" had been made to the Arabs, they had responded with increased violence. Like everyone else pointing this out, I was labeled racist and a warmonger. And of course, it happened anyway.
Do you realize that throughout these attacks, Israel has continued to supply the Arabs in Gaza with electricity and financial aid? Egypt takes no responsibility for their fellow Arabs, but Israel continues to feed that hand that bites them.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Jon you'll have to get in line.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fire 100 rockets back for every rocket fired into Israel. For every Israeli kidnapped execute 100 Palestinians, for every dollar spent defending Israel makes sure that they have to replace 100$ more, for every vehicle blown up destroy 50 of there's, for every home destroyed bulldoze 50 of theirs.
If in 5 years they still keep at it at least there won't be enough of them left for the world to make a fuss out of deporting them somewhere nice.
You know, it would probably work. But it's not how we do things. Still, I think they should be escorted to the border with Egypt and let through into the Sinai. Let their Egyptian brethren deal with them for a change.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: The strategy of using overwhelming force to break the enemies will originates in tactical thinking with Von Clauswitz, it is also very effective way of suppresses uprisings and guerrilla insurgencies. I roughly recall starting a thread on the subject some many years ago.
I don't think you understand. Killing all of the Palestinians would not solve the problem.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
There's too many of them, once we move them to the border and start moving to the Egpytian side, the Egyptians will simply deploy machine gun nests and tell the to go back, then we'll have to setup machine gun nests and start gunning done some of them as they come back, and then they'll start gunning down the ones moving back to Egypt, eventually the machine gunners on one side will crack under the psycological pressure and we'll have no choice but to let them back in as no soldier wants to keep machine gunning cattle for long.
My solution at leasts spreads it out so that when it is time to deport the ones who wont work a honest living (as Im certain the Israeli economy needs or at least likes some palistinians as cheap labour) there won't be that many left to mow down as they move back across the border.
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Blayne Bradley
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Death solves all problems - no man, no problem.
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quote: People want to make peace in the middle east, but the two sides want different things. Israel wants to exist. The Palestinians want Israel not to exist. Where is there middle ground there?
A quantumly uncertain Israel which may or may not exist so long as we don't observe it?
("Not observing it" does seem to be American media & public's favorite solution to Israel/Palestinian issues, after all.)
posted
Blayne: Israel is not allowed to fight back. Every time they do, the world condemns them.
Even firing one rocket back would be a "disproportionate response" (never mind that a proportionate response... or no response at all... is just a way to make sure the violence never ends.)
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: And somehow they're all going to get in a line and march single file to israel to get their revenge?
Come on Blayne. What consequences do you think a massively aggressive policy towards Palestinians would have?
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
The world rants a little they submit a resolution to the UNSC, US veto's it, Arab Ambassadors can say they tried. Some coup d'etats happen, a anti israeli coalition forms they try to invade Israel they get their asses handed to them world quiets down a little.
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Somehow the line to slap blayne and the line of 1.4 billion Muslims got conflated in my mind.
I don't think there's going to be much left by the time it's your turn, Jon. You better just slap him now.
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posted
Actually pooka, I think that's a fantastic idea. If we can get all the angry, violent people in the world mad at Blayne, and then have him run around in an unpopulated area for a long time, they will keep following him around, waiting for their turn to slap him, and everyone else can go about their lives Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
The line also in the process of circulating a resolution declaring that I do not exist, paradoxically enough, I wonder if they realie that by signing it they ensure I do exist.
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The reactions in this thread are making me really sad. Blayne, I'm going to assume you realize the effect of your statement and that's why you said it, but the situation you described is more of what's happening than people realize. And as for "feeding the hand that bites them", the Israelis have certainly not been doing the best job of that. Palestinians are not just attacking them because they want to eradicate Israel. They're attacking because they're hungry, have no way of leaving, and are not granted the basic civil rights of anyone who lives in a "valid" state. Even when they can get passports, they are only considered to be "travel documents" and not legal passports because they're issued by Palestine, which isn't a country and so it can't do anything.
Israel has been "fighting back" since it came into being. And the Palestinians have been getting the short end of that stick just as long. It's not a case of world opinion being on the side of Gaza at all.
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posted
I'm going to assume Blayne either has a really bad sense of humor, or he's just utterly and hopelessly stupid about this particular matter. And I don't say that to be insulting, I say it because I think it's a statement of fact. If his policies were actually enacted, Israel WOULD cease to exist one way or the other, because either the US would withdraw support, or the nearby Arabs would decimate them. Thanks to the US, Saudi Arabia has lots of bright, shiny toys that are on par with what the Israelis have. That plus a nuke from Pakistan would end them. They might take out Mecca before they go down, but they'd go down.
And Lisa,
quote:Do you realize that throughout these attacks, Israel has continued to supply the Arabs in Gaza with electricity and financial aid?
So what you've decided to do with this statement is lie? Israel has cut off fuel shipments and all aid to Gaza. As a result they have no power, because after Israel cut off their power, they relied entirely on a single power plant fueld by what, the fuel shipments from Israel. Now they have no power, their hospitals don't function so the sick and injured are dying or dead. They want to leave and go elsewhere to seek relief but Israel keeps them trapped inside behind their walls. Their hope is that eventually Palestinians will turn against Hamas as the group that got them into that situation.
But it hasn't worked. Instead the people hate Israel even more. In the last few days the wall has been torn down in large sections between the Sinai and Gaza. Israel told Egypt to close the wall immediately as thousands of Gazans streamed across the wall to get medical supplies, food, fuel, to see family members trapped on the other side, or even just to get a breath of fresh air. Israel's concern is solely that terrorists might use the crossing to sneak in material, and they want the wall closed back up as quickly as possible.
I guess the bright side is that since that's happened, rocket attacks HAVE tappered off. But the situation there is dire. Less dire now that the people have managed to get out and get some relief, but people in Gaza are something like 80% dependent on the UN for shipments of food, and entirely dependent on Israel for electricity. It's an open air prison camp.
quote:Originally Posted by: Dragon Palestinians are not just attacking them because they want to eradicate Israel. They're attacking because they're hungry, have no way of leaving, and are not granted the basic civil rights of anyone who lives in a "valid" state.
And there's more truth to that than I think a lot of Israelis will admit. It's the minority of people that shoots those rockets and riles Israel up. Everyone else is trapped. They want to be free of the whole mess, they want food, they want jobs, and they hate Israel, the PA, Hamas and the US for keeping them where they are. Of all of those groups though, Hamas is the one that can at least claim to protect them, who runs schools for them and provides other government services. Compare that with the group that cuts off your power and guess which group they are going to support.
It's Blayne's tactics that Israel has employed, and it's the reason the status quo will ALWAYS exist so long as they keep doing so.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Gee, up till this point I thought Blayne was just sort of dumb but mostly just silly.
Now I'm starting to realize that he's actually dumb as a post, and as a result his attempt to appear like a learned strategist has put him about a notch below Tom Tancredo on the Cretinometer™
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quote:Do you realize that throughout these attacks, Israel has continued to supply the Arabs in Gaza with electricity and financial aid?
So what you've decided to do with this statement is lie? Israel has cut off fuel shipments and all aid to Gaza. As a result they have no power, because after Israel cut off their power, they relied entirely on a single power plant fueld by what, the fuel shipments from Israel. Now they have no power, their hospitals don't function so the sick and injured are dying or dead. They want to leave and go elsewhere to seek relief but Israel keeps them trapped inside behind their walls. Their hope is that eventually Palestinians will turn against Hamas as the group that got them into that situation.
The only lie here is yours, Lyrhawn. Israel cut off some fuel to Gaza, and for good reasons. And they never, not for a minute, stopped the supply of electricity into Gaza. Check your facts next time, before you start spreading libel and calling me a liar.
And Israel is hardly keeping them trapped. They have a border with Egypt as well. What, we're supposed to let them freely into Israel with their track record of blowing up innocent bystanders?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Fixed. I hit my thumb earlier tonight and it got so bad that I took a vicodin about 2 hours ago. My bad.
But I don't apologize for what I posted to Lyrhawn. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Israel supplies all of Gaza's fuel and 2/3 of its electricity. Cutting the fuel (which, why the hell does Israel have to supply them with fuel rather than Egypt?) resulted in their power plant going down, but Israel never stopped supplying electricity. The Palestinians don't pay for the electricity, mind you. They refuse to pay, but Israel continues to supply them. It's insane.
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posted
And let me add that Israel didn't cut off all fuel, either. They reduced the amount of fuel they were sending in. Even Al-Jazeera pointed that out.
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And those poor, poor Palestinians, living in squalor... and running into Egypt to buy motorcycles, televisions, new cellphones... yeah, my heart bleeds for them.
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posted
The border with Egypt is sealed by a wall and a border crossing, which is closed a majority of the time by Egypt to appease Israeli security soncerns. When the wall was torn down to let them out, Israel screamed bloody murder and told the Egyptians to close the border and repair the wall as quickly as possible. Blithely saying they can just leave if they want isn't accurate. And you could just as easily say that those people being hit by rockets could just leave too couldn't they? You don't like that argument any more than I do, so don't use it.
It's not a clam bake over there. Israel's actions are causing immense hardship. We can argue justification all you want, but denying the actual effects of their actions is wrong, and it's dishonest.
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Al-Jazeera is hardly a reliable news source, and citing it as one hardly helps your credibility, Lyr. Some of those other sources are rather sketchy as well.
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She quoted Al-Jazeera above! It's magically okay when she does it for the sake of being sarcastic but when I do it all of a sudden they aren't reputable? And Al-Jazeera English is perfectly reputable. Whenever I read the BBC I pop over to Al-Jazeera English to check for differences, and though from time to time the wording is different, the content is by and large the same. How often do you read it? (I know that sounds confrontational, but I'm asking an honest question).
And I guess that Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are terrorist sympathizers?
Some of those I could agree with dismissing as blogs and not necessarily reputable news sources. But not all of them. You can't throw a blanket dismissal over my point. Well I guess you can, but I don't think it helps yours and Lisa's credibility much either to dismiss something out of hand like that.
But if you want something you'd probably consider more "reliable" :
None of them detail the electricity cut offs, but then finding ANY news on Gaza wasn't easy. Certainly not as easy as looking at more domestic sources or human rights organizations.
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posted
Well now that you said that I don't take it that way. But when I first read it it came off as "you quoted Al-Jazeera, so I'm just going to dismiss you there," which seemed odd because you're a reasonable person.
Plus I suppose I'm a little testy in this thread anyway. I apologize for the overreaction.
But I'm still curious as to your reaction to Al-Jazeera English.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Lyrhawn: I think Lisa's point was that Al-Jazeera, a news outlet that is no friend to Israel, still pointed out that they reduced fuel delivery to Palestine, they didn't out and out cut all fuel shipments.
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posted
I don't want to comment again on Al-Jazeera English (seriously, it's an important distinction to add that English on the end, it's an entirely different thing) until Lisa and riv respond, as I don't want to conflate their positions or respond to something they haven't said themselves.
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posted
In a few years you won't need to worry about incandescent rocket attacks any more -- they'll all be compact fluorescent rocket attacks.
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