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Author Topic: Could Alvin win a war?
Bean Counter
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If the next Alvin Maker novel is set in the future war of unification and anti-slavery parallel to the Civil War and if Alvin were to use his power to aid the forces of the United States rather then trying to set tight and wait out the war what might the result be?

Sparks and Doodlebugs could destroy magazine and artillery pieces. Alvin could make an Ironclad that would be invulnerable, provide cover for troop movements, spoil food, cure sickness (once he figures out causes. He could even provide gold if it was needed.

I think that Alvin with selective Makery could shorten the Civil War into a single year. Thus saving tens of thousands of lives, which Peggy should approve of and making sure the right side wins. If he went that way then who in the United States could see him as less then a Hero, he could succeed as President where Joseph Smith failed and perhaps avoid untimely death.

We know Card is not in the Violence Never Solved Anything camp. I wonder if he has considered the implications of a Maker at war.

At the very least he should have Calvin answer the call to become a War hero and perhaps the next President after the war. That would be exactly what Calvin would plan to do!

BC

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TomDavidson
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Shame Jesus never conquered Rome, really.
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Bean Counter
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What did the Roamans ever do for Isreal... Apart from Roads, Public Sanitation, Education, Security, Freedom of Religion, Expanded Trade...

BC

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RaptureMan
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Well if it's like the Civl war the US had then winning the war within the year wouldn't do much for the slaves since Lincoln didn't emancipate them untill about 2 years after the war started.

So maybe Alvin getting involved might affect the way things are supposed to happen? Some things you can't rush [Frown]

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Telperion the Silver
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Jesus didn't conquer Rome... but Paul did.
[Smile]

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Bean Counter
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It seems to me that the War is much more focused in the series then it was in reality. You may be right about the cost of a swift war, but it is a matter of pulling the rank that Alvin would earn as the champion.

BC

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Drake Coluber
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Calvin reminds me so much of Peter. They parallel eachother in so many ways... but Peter is seeming to redeem himself, sort of. But for both of them, it's always "me, me, me" So if there was a maker war, Calvin would certainly TRY to be involved. Does anyone remember the Mexica?
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Brian_Berlin
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>>Calvin reminds me so much of Peter...

And Elemak.

Yeah, Calvin could win a war. But he's not in the war business. A "war of unification" though, that's clever wording. I don't think it's his nature to be involved in war -- nor do I think he'd be fooled into building things out of a war.

But what is his final mission going to be after the crystal city? Surely that's not going to be "IT"... so there's got to be some greater good that he'll be directed to after that, methinks.

Personally, I wish he'd doodlebug out into the stars and see the heartfire of the Hive Queen or something. (yes, I know different realities, etc., but I can dream, can't I?)

What if in the crystal city, people were instructed in the art of making... but somehow that slowly evolved into making through speaking and then through singing? And then the Crystal City would start to resemble (in some primitive way) the Songhouse (in Songmaster). I'd love to see some sort hint of Ansset in Alvin.

Calvin, Peter, Elemak - they never could accept the love and admiration of their brothers. But if Alving could sing the love like Ansset sang... that'd be cool.

And making through use of the voice might also lead to the voice being used as a tool of the unmaker. Remember the Fremen in Dune? I can't remember all the details but certain sounds of their voices unleashed great destruction on the Atreides?

I've strayed off topic. While Alvin could certainly do things to stave off or even win a battle, I don't think that he could prevent or win a war. He is mortal. Of course... what if Alvin fabricated the Cloak of the Starmaster?

one more what if... What if Alvin genetically altered an insect to fight a war, but in so doing he created a sentient species... the buggers... hmmmm..... ;-)

I know it's pointless to try to tie-in all different realities. But the mind WANTS to connect all the dots.

(sorry so long-winded)

[ September 27, 2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Brian_Berlin ]

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SaulSimon
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"Remember the Fremen in Dune? I can't remember all the details but certain sounds of their voices unleashed great destruction on the Atreides?"

I belive it was the Harkonians that they killed, Paul, an Atreides was helping them.

[ September 28, 2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: SaulSimon ]

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pooka
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I don't remember that from the Dune book, though it may have been in the Hollywood movie.
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Brian_Berlin
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>>I belive it was the Harkonians that they killed

Yes!! That's it!

THNX

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Goody Scrivener
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Harkonnens.... =)

The voice weapons were what Stilgar and Jessica both called the "weirding way". I think it's an application of the Voice, which was a Bene Gesserit tool to control others, finetuned with external modules that apparently focused the Voice to the purpose of the non-Bene Gesserit speaker.

DUNE
SPOILER
SPACE

In the original Dune book (and in the movie) Paul and Jessica trained the Fremen in the use of this weapon in their war against the Harkonnen as it related to the production of spice. Then the Emperor got involved and sent in his Sardaukar troops to help support the Harkonnen armies... and got their collective butts whipped. =) In the midst of training, the Fremen realize that Paul's Fremen name, Muad'Dib, is also a word of death, and that after a period of time, Paul no longer needs a weirding module in order to kill by speech, both of which naturally serve to strengthen Fremen belief that Paul is their Messiah.

Yes, I'm a bit Dune obsessed too =)

Goody

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