I am a huge fan of the Ender's Game series and have especially enjoyed the Shadow series. I also happen to be a computer game hobbiest on the side. That being the case I have made some friends who know some computer programming. Recently we have been discussing creating our own mod (modification). For those of you unfamiliar, a mod, is a computer game that uses a game's engine, but runs you creation. Some examples are with the popular game Half Life, both Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat are mods. Another way to view the idea is if you have a engine that you just swap in and out of cars. What runs is the same, just the visuals change.
Okay enough of that. So my friends and I have given some series discussion to a sci-fi based game and we recently discovered we both love the Ender's Game series. Some of you may recall that in the books the kids play a game in battle school. We've thought that could be an extremely fun thing to make.
Now I'm sure there are legalistic things that would have to be resolved if this idea was ever to go public, but what I'm asking is for people's conception of how the game is played. The atmopshere, rules, etc.
Right now my basic idea is that battles take place in a large, white, rectangluar room, that has no gravity. The room also has ladder rungs on the side that are used for climbing, tieing ropes to etc. Lastly there are also boxes or other deris that they call "stars" in the book.
Does anyone else have a better idea how things would look, act, feel, in the battle room? Perhaps there are other sites with images or ideas. Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
posted
Hiya. It'd be awesome if you made a game based on the battle school, so there'd be one on the school and one on the simulator, which I'm current working on. Hopefully, since it's non-profit, there are no legal issues...but I'm still waiting for a reply from Mr. Card.
Anyway, is your game going to be a FPS (First Person Shooter) of sorts? 2D or 3D? Basically what you've described is how I've always pictured the battle room, but good luck with it!
Posts: 3 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Okay here are my ideas for it: 1- Make the room spherical (if you want to be true o the novel) 2- Make sure you find a physics/gravity simulation program/algorithim/function after all it is null G. 3- The game should become a combination of FPS and RTS if you want it to be REALLY good. A FPS is fine and all but if you add in the tactics of the battkeroom in a kind of 3D view it'll be amazing. (Also have the option to rotate the camera view so that you can always reposition "down") 4- Have a kind of Role-playing/story-line to follow. Like actually have the option to move around the bunks, talk to other characters (NPCs) for additional story, have an amazing in-deph non-linear story line. 5- have a kind of "point system" so that you can be promoted over time as you get better/or win battles. 6- Get an interactive score board that can actually display your scores and the army score. 7- If possible have it so that other battles happen the same time you battle and etc, maybe even a schedual, so that you have always X amount of time before the next battle and/or class (which would be tutorials). 8- The graphics should be a kind of like FF-X Blitzball when in the game. (If you prefer FF-VII, very classic polygonial) 9- Kobayashi Maru; The no-win scenario; Actually meet Dragon army and of course you lose. But the point would be to gain points, like for every Dragon downed is like 100 Points compared to the usual 25 Points neh? 10- Alwight last one, bear with me: The Mind game, I think that maybe is could be introduced into the game as a kinda mini game. 11- So I lied, sue me I promise that this is he last one! Back to the RTS aspect; IN the "Practice room" you can set preset "plans" and name them so that in the battleroom when facing another army you can select say Omega-03 and your army shall say automatically launch to the other side of the room screaming with guns blazing.
So these are my ideas for a Ender's Game the Game. (Pun intended) However I just realized that all this is possibly impossible with a Mod, but... If there is ever an actual game made these ideas I think would be good. Probably for the PS3 or the PC though.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Right now the idea is for an FPS based game, so think Doom3, Counter-Strike, etc. A mixture of RTS is actually a veru interesting idea. It reminds me of the Natural Selection mod that was made for Half-Life (kinda reminds me of the simulator section of the novel. You can check out NS here: http://www.natural-selection.org/). More I think about it NS is veru similar to the Ender's Game scenario, except its hand to hand, rather than ships.
Anyway. Thank you for the ideas so far. I didn't realize that the Battle Room is a sphere shaped. Also since we were thinking more of a FPS based game, I think we are going to stick with only the Battle Room for now. maybe version 2 can mix FPS and RTS with the addition of the Simulator Room.
As to NPCs etc, I think we were heading in the the multiplayer online realm, not stand alone adventure. But I guess NPCs (like Graff and Anderson) could be included or added as mission debriefers, prior to the game.
Since its suppose to be team based game, are there any links for a listing of all the Battle School teams (I can think of Rabbit and Dragon off the top of my head). Also are there colors or certain insignia that go with each group??
Thanks for all the input so far. Right now things are still in planning stages, but when ideas get finalized I'll post images of what we've done (as long as it doesn't violate any legal things with OSC).
posted
The Battle Rooms are not spherical. Their cubeness is well defined in the books.
Their size, however is never specified. It is strongly implied by Bean's 100m "trick line" in Ender's Shadow, but that's as close as Card gets.
The handrails "change" from exposed and jutting out from the walls (EG) to recessed (ES). I would like to think that I have something to do with that, but have yet to get confirmation.
You may be able to dig up old references to that on Frescopictures.com, or at:
posted
Trust me it HAS to be spherical or else you wouldn't get the same up-down orientation problem. Like if you are in a gym and you happen to float up to the sealing you'll have no problem even if there is nothing but walls, in orientating your orientation. And when I though when you were making a game I thought it was a single player thing. But it might be fun having a 1-player mode and a online mode.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Sorry, Sid. The battle rooms are cubical in the novels, however, there is no difference between the "ceilings" "walls" and "floors" which are all riddled with handrails. In zero gravity, you would not be forced into orienting any way. In fact, you wouldn't be able to tell where the floor had been, because the only possible orientating factor would be the hallway outside, which you cannot see very well since the doors are perfect squares.
P.S. SSywak is a fricking GOD of battleroom design. In the unlikely event you get legal permission, you would do well to talk to him. I guarantee he knows more about it than just about anybody on the planet (including OSC, who doesn't take the time to memorize his books and work out all the equations for finding the proper speed of rotation and size of the battle school rings, etc.)
Posts: 894 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
The room is not spherical. It has corners. Here's a quote from Ender's Game:
quote:And another bit of information, too. Alai did not push off in the same direction as Bernard. He aimed for a corner of the room. Their paths diverged more and more as they flew, and where Bernard made a clumsy, crunching landing and bounce on his wall, Alai did a glancing triple bounce on three surfaces near the corner that left him most of his speed and sent him flying off at a surprising angle.
Also, there are several places where it talks about walls vs. ceilings in the battle room. This wouldn't make sense if it's spherical.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Shouldn't this be pretty easy to make as a mod for Unreal Tourney or Quake III or something? I am surprised it hasn't been done, yet. Basically, a decent FPS with all bells and whistles like the above could create such an environment. We just need more well-read modders.
Posts: 896 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
One of the reasons it hasn't been done is that any time the Cards hear about an attempt being made, they slap those behind the project with a C&D for copyright infringement. They are certain that they will lose their own legal rights to the material in question if they do not challenge any infringement they are aware of. I don't know if it's true or not, but there it is.
By the way, another reason is that it wouldn't really be that much fun. Think about it. In the Battle Room I can only change direction when I either hit the wall or another person. That would be exhilerating in real life, and it's tremendous fun to read about, but a computer game? I don't think it would be as great as you think it would. Now the Simulator is another story. In fact, I think there was a mod for Homeworld in process that looked quite promising what with the bugger ships and the MD device..... until they got slapped with a C&D.
If I were you I would just wait for the movie tie-in game. Hopefully by that time, Geoff Card will have moved up and will be designing it! In the meantime.... well... Play UT2004 and Halo 2.
posted
COPYRIGHT INFRIGNEMENT!? ACK! Makes no sense. He's not losing money by such a mod and if an actual game comes out are we gonna buy it? yes! After all a mod is only a modification of the actual game (in this case homeworld). A game based on the novel will have far better features and such. Back to the FPS mod; Okay you could have it so that you can orient which way you are pointing your gun or in which direction your gonna jump to. Also the battleroom will be a tad dark so your gun has 2 options to make a laser/phaser and a wide beam of light to illuminate. I still think, that in the "actual" version of this game you should inbetween battles walk around to talk to the other npc's and to visit the messhall (this could be a MMORPG if instead of npc's you have actual people and the batttleschool becomes the are in which you all walk around in.)
posted
Well, the thing is, OSC has a long history of not letting others to use his intellectual property in any way. Regardless of whether you think it makes sense or not, it's guaranteed that he won't be okay with your making this mod.
posted
Yes, the issues actually are legal. OSC has sold ALL rights to Warner Brothers and they have lawyers on staff who will indeed sue you. Intellectual property is no joke and those who do not aggressively protect copyright will lose it. So, you have been warned. I'll give you a chance to read this, then this thread will disappear.
Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Man, he's sold all the rights to Warner Brothers? Ouch--that had to hurt a bit, even if it was the right thing to do given the circumstances.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Not necessarily. If you think you can make a good game out of it go ahead -- you just can't call it anything to do with Ender's Game.
But the idea of war game simulations in zero ge is so generic that without any specific Ender's Game references, I can't imagine that they could stop you.
Call it the "War Hall" or something like that.
edit: Also, don't call them "stars" -- call them "planets".
IANAL, but "obviously inspired by" does not invoke IP.
OSC (and whoever he sells the rights to) owns the names Ender, Bean, etc.. And barring patents, you can't own an idea.
posted
kacard -- I'm not complaining, but I'm wondering why you feel it necessary to shut down this thread. Could the mere existance of a thread discussing a fan-made EG movie be construed as approval? (I'm afraid that the answer is yes, but I can't wrap my mind around how it really could be.)
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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The reason is, if we know about it and don't stop it, then we are also open to some trouble. Sorry about that.
Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 1999
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I figured that, but I was wondering if you could tell me more how/why you could get in trouble. A lot of IP law is completely anti-intuitive to me, but it's like a train wreck -- I want to know more even thought it burns me up.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Well, in 8 years or so from now I'll be creating my own small gaming company so we'll see. (I'll probably be making remakes of previous games after most games today could've been improved upon but couldn't/wouldn't). If an "actual" (There is of course a difference between a real game and a modification) game for Ender's Game is ever made (hopefully by me 'cause it would be (if done right) be a hit/classic) I hope it has the option (if single player) to walk around the "world" (Battle School) in a non-linear/linear way (kinda like in the Final Fantasy series) to get hints, talk to NPC's for plot/character development and then play a battle in which you slowly go up in rank/and points in. And of course once you gain your own army have the option to (in free practice) to set your own "tactics" (since this would be partially RTS) and rearrange your toons as you like em etc. After a couple of battles you face Dragon Army under Ender and of course you lose. You will be meant to lose barring cheat codes or game shark (in which case I'll have a message that says the human race is now doomed because of you ) . The point of this is extra points and to judge how well you do in command like the Kobayashi Maru in Star Trek . Those are my ideas if the game is ever coded by some enterprising company... in the forseeable future...
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
IF this thread turns into what Sid seems to be doing which is "stuff I hope happens in an Ender's Game Game when it gets made" I think it can stay And I assure you, it will be made. Probably more than one kind of game. Warner is working hard to make that happen.
Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I assume that this future game(s) will be as a tie-in to the movie, not the book.
After all, how many [commerdcial] Tolkien video games were there before the movies?
Let's just be thankful that OSC has already written the series, and can't to what Arthur C. Clarke did with 2010 -- have the next book be a sequel to the movie, and not the book.
Not that I think OSC would ever do that.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
In the spirit of kacard's request, I'll talk about how the game might be done.
I agree that it would be really tricky to have a battleroom game be true to the game and still fun.
Most of the time, you'd just be floating incontrollably in space. That's not too bad -- it's time to be shooting people.
But how would you input the direction that you rebound off the walls? In 3D space? I just don't see how that could be done well.
And, of course, if it's true to the book, then when you're dead, you're dead. Imagine a 20 minute game where you spend 15 minutes of it frozen and not able to do anything.
Most FPS overcome this by respawning everybody after they die. This makes it fun for everybody, but I believe that this little change would change it too much for you to say that it's much like the book. That would drastically change all strategy in the game, and many of the strategies that Ender used in the book would be obsolete.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Maybe an RTS Battle room sim? Homeworld style, you start at the door, set up toons, and have them start out moving in a direction. Orders given on the fly, such as to soft land on next surface, bounce off in a certain direction, etc, but would not be able to move in any direction at any time. HMMM....
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote: IF this thread turns into what Sid seems to be doing which is "stuff I hope happens in an Ender's Game Game when it gets made" I think it can stay And I assure you, it will be made. Probably more than one kind of game. Warner is working hard to make that happen.
Yes indeed that is what I imply. After all I do honor the copyright laws for authors. Now if it was a full RTS game then the Homeworld style would be okay, it would be like Close Combat and/or Blitzkrieg (both games) but 3 dimensional. Also you could in practice train them and stuff so that each one individualy may get more skilled etc.
The FPS/FF concept should still bend to my point of view. You have your character; say... Blayne... You have the immediat ability to explore the battleschool and talk to NPC's to understand the history of batleschool, hints, background story, plot/character development. Like a Final Fantasy game. And of course certain parts of the school are barred to you for X amount of reasons. You start out in the Lunchies room you walk around and talk to the others, then after you activate some trigger the teacher comes in and brings you to your army. Or rather it starts you in the lunchies room but you go to the practice first where you have a tutorial on how to use the battle room and stuff. (With the option to skip) then after you complete some mini-quest you are broguht to your first army. I consider this a logical start for your story. AAnd then as battles go by and ou gain points say you reach ~6000 points you become a toon leader. There the RTS concept first enters because you have the control of a toon and have to give orders. With the ability to maniplute a strategic map. Then when you reach ~60,000 points you become a Comander. You can or may join the battle or if you prefer "not join" and control the battle just via the stragegic map which you can constantly reorient. Order toons to attack, defend, patrol, form a formation style XA, move there/where/when, set waypoints in 3D space using like shift key to set the Z point while using the mouse to choose the X,Y point. And in practice, you can use it to gain points (if you reach say ~180,000 points you graduate/win the game) customize your controls, customize your formations, customize your battle plans, train your troops etc. And of course between battles/practice you can continue to explore (a fun thing to add if that you run faster and jump higher when you go closer to center of station and vice versa) with more places to go since your a commander. Even see Graff/Anderson. And once more I'll say it again, the Kobayashi Maru when you face Ender's Dragon Army you'll lose because the difficulty will be aswome extreme difficulty the point is to judge how good you do and to gain bonus points. (1 Dragon soldier down is equal to 3x as many points per say) but you'll still lose.
Now my idea for controlling how you move is that you point in what direction you want to go than press spacebar and you move into that direction with a fixed amount of force. You could say press A to spin while moving. and you automatically clutch the wall on impact. Like using the mouse in say a 360 degrees of movement. Now you can just revert to an observer mode the moment your flashed and view it all from above. It could be fun to just watch for ten minutes. And chat.
SO these are my ideas/concepts that should be in a Ender's Game Game. And if the arguement that these are too good for most computers puh-leez! By the time this game is made the average computer will be twice as good.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I'm not saying it's not possible but in my experience, any game created by Warner Brothers has absolutely sucked(think batman games).
But we then we have to look at a certain company with a mouse. Games made by them have always sucked as well. But, then we get a sweet game (Kingdom Hearts) and everything flips upside down. This just goes to show that it depends on who you have produce it. (KH was produced by Square Enix, who made the final fantasy games)
Posts: 283 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Yeah, so hopefully it'll be a FF company that helps make it. Otherwise on of the more famou FPS or Homeworld companies. I don't think Warner has a good enough staff for it.
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. The point of this is extra points and to judge how well you do in command like the Kobayashi Maru in Star Trek . Those are my ideas if the game is ever coded by some enterprising company... in the forseeable future...
