posted
I would like to thank everyone who reads this... for reading it. You'll see more about that in a moment. I decided I would share my mind and see what other people thought.
First, I'm not native to forums themselves. My beginnings come from IGN > Asheron's Call Vault > Morningthaw. I still post there, now as Verai. There's also other scattered forums that I can be discovered at.
This forum is different from others I frequent for several reasons.
- The people here are generally more mature. Probobly because I am used to game forums. An offshoot of that; the posts are more intelligent and people are more empathetic - they can accept alternate points of view more easily.
- OSC posts here.
- Because of the many different topics and points of view, I recieve much more useful information than from gaming forums.
Unfortunately, I don't know most of the people here, which is the string that binds me to my other forums.
Many of the posts... (thanks again for reading this) are wordy. Out of respect for the people here I sometimes have to force myself to read the content. I never have that problem with Mr. Card's essays or posts. It could be because of a sense of hero worship*, because he is skilled at articulation and knows how to keep ADD-infected young adults reading, or both.
* Which leads me to the next part of my thought train.
Many times I've seen people make fan-oriented comments to OSC and he's replied with things like, "You don't know me."
Prone to self-analysis as I am, I took a step back to force myself into a neutral mindset and consider that. And I decided several things.
First, there are things he has done that I personally admire. Writing and teaching writing are the two big ones.
And at this point I stopped typing this post. Am I trying to justify hero worship? I'm not much of a psychologist. Another step back - this isn't easy.
Another pause. I should have made an outline. I don't want to seem like I am giving someone too much credit. My brain works this way and I am only writing down what I am thinking. If it's incorrect or stupid then there's not much I can do about it right now.
Back to the point. After a moment of reflection, I've come to two things.
One, people are attracted to power. Mr. Card is famous! He writes books and truckloads of people read them.
Two, OSC is accesible. Why, he posts right here at hatrack. Anybody could come talk to the famous author and receive wisdom.
I think the second point is the kicker. Do people think much about Mr. Card outside of book signings and the forums?
The phrase, "You don't know me." Came from someone's writing about a book signing. The author's response to his statement was essentially, "The comments your fans give you are not given lightly, so take them with grace."
After a final pause, I've concluded my string of painful, chaotically written thoughts. I believe OSC said himself that people have many faces. I may not know your "family" face, or your "close friends" face, but I appreciate the ones that I've seen. I realize that those faces are moldable, like an actor's clay mask. To that there is nothing I can say. I only trust that OSC is honest with the things he says and types.
(Which makes me hope that people don't look at this and wonder for what alterior purpose did I write it?)
I admire Mr. Card's deeds of teaching writing and agree with most of his political views. I can only try to keep undue bais out of my mind in the future.
Again I thank everyone for reading this. And I apologize for the length and chaotic pattern. (After reading through this again it doesn't look SO bad. What's with the desire to communicate thoughts, anyway?)
posted
Glad you are here at Hatrack, Verai. I enjoyed your post.
If you are in the mood for questions, how do your different faces work together? DO you think we are always engaged in presentation? (I do, FWIW. Sometimes less consciously than others, but the presentation is always there.)
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
so ADD makes it hard to concentrate or stay on task? That is when you know a book is good or not when someone with ADD can read it from start to finish. Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
The presentation is a good point and I agree with it. We always have a subconscience motivation.
When we help other people is it because we want to be acknowledged for it?
If we help without trumpeting the deed is it because we want to feel morally superior?
I would suggest that the secret motivations don't matter as long as the effect is a positive one.
Sid, I'm half joking on the ADD thing. I just have a relatively low attention span.
I think the faces thing works because we want people to like us. Different people require a different method to blend in. We assimilate a small piece of everyone's personality and it shows when we're with them.
On a side note, I'm glad the two replies so far haven't been negative. I was afraid of coming off in a weird way.
posted
It's one of the things I learned from writing fiction, which I think applies to real life, too.
Each character in fiction is discovered primarily through his relationship with another character. We can get attitudes, opinions, memories, experiences, fantasies, dreams, descriptions - but what makes us feel like we know a character is what he says and does to others and how he responds to what they say and do to him: In other words, his relationships.
The tricky thing is that a character is different with every person he has a relationship with. And I think we're like that in real life. Some people, chameleon-like, even take on the speech mannerisms of whomever they're speaking with; but even when it's not so extreme, we behave differently with different people. How could we not? We can't talk to our wife the way we talk to a friend; we can't talk to our boss the way we talk to our kids. And there's nothing wrong with that. To my kids I'm Dad. To my boss I'm so not. It doesn't mean that you're being a lying hypocrite to some (though you might be) - it just means that we treat different people differently.
We even become, superficially at least, a different person when we're with a particular group than we are when we're alone with one or another member of that group. This is especially obvious in high school, when we have a group we hang out with.
I don't think this is unhealthy or bad in any way. I think it's simply a human truth. And writers who understand this will do a much better job of creating believable and well-rounded characters.
At book signings, knowing I can't be Ender to the people who are really there to meet HIM, the best I can do is be attentive-author, to really listen to what they're saying and try to respond appropriately. I really do care that they fulfil their hopes in meeting the author of a made-up story that they have taken to heart.
But if someone challenges me or tries to pick a fight, the deal is off, the relationship is different. They're trying to score points off me, like picking a fight in a bar, and I won't play. That reaction, too, is sincere. Life is short - I have only contempt for people who would go out of their way to pick a fight with somebody who, after all, has done them no harm.
Here online, though, you're really here for each other. Oh, you might have come initially out of interest in me and my work, but those who stay here on the forums and take part in the conversation are here to talk to each other about ANYTHING that comes up. So my practice has been to deliberately stay away. I've even been envious, as Geoff or Kristine told me about some of the forum games that are played here, and other goings-on. They knew you; I didn't. But I was afraid that my presence here, if I was too active, would stifle the conversation.
I'm relieved to see that largely it has not. There are some who, having spent a lot of time attacking this or that aspect of my character or my opinions, now seem to feel the need to prove their courage by saying them "to my face," as if anything posted here hadn't been in my face all along! <grin>. I'll answer when I think the person is worth answering, or when the charge is so outrageous that to not answer would seem like some kind of confession.
By and large, though, my character online here is the character I developed in school: The brat who heckles mildly with (supposedly) witty remarks, and then occasionally, when intrigued or amused, will spout off with some bit of information and engage in repartee for a while.
And, far more rarely, when it seems that a conversation is sincere and heartfelt, I will actually take part more seriously.
Which one of these is "really" Orson Scott Card? All of them, of course. I've probably spent more of my life being the brat than anything else - that's my persona at church, with rare exceptions, and where else do I go?
But, like most of you, there are things way too private or sensitive to share in a public forum where anyone can come and see and react in ways that I don't want. I don't think that means I'm "holding back" - just that things that are posted stay posted for a long time, while things SAID in conversation fade, because they exist only in memory.
I will probably not post at the pace of the past few weeks (not just days), not often, anyway. As soon as I get buried in another project - I've GOT to write Christmas at Battle School RIGHT NOW to make the Christmas book deadlines - I won't show up as much. But I've certainly enjoyed the conversations here, and I hope I haven't embarrassed myself or annoyed others too much; especially with my lamish contributions to some really fun games.
Meanwhile, though, I always keep in mind that most of the people who are impressed with "me" are really impressed with characters I've written. Believe me, I can write characters who are a lot more interesting, intelligent, and/or virtuous or sinful than I am. Mostly my life is dull, and I like it that way. So when you meet me or converse with me, I recognize that there's bound to be disappointment that I'm not Ender or Peter or Alvin or Abner Doon or, really, anybody that I've written. Heck, I'm not even Step Fletcher, because I gave him MUCH better dialogue than I ever actually say in real life.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I've enjoyed having you here. I've never met you in person, so this is the closest I've ever gotten to seeing the human being behind the Wiggins parents (those are the characters that I most think of as you, not Ender).
I'm glad you've enjoyed yourself as well, and good luck on your next project.
posted
Unrelated, but I would like to say that when I was younger, I had no idea my parents could be sarcastic. Or have a sense of humor.
Posts: 169 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Scott: I met you, briefly, at a signing in Portland Oregon in 2003 where all us Hatrackers gathered up with Kristine The Awesome and took pictures. One thing that I remember vividly was how gracious and thoughtful you are with the people who love your work. I've enjoyed seeing you post more frequently, not because you come off as "Famous Author Guy", but rather because you're an interesting and good-natured contributor to the 'Rack.
(I do admit to paying a certain amount of attention to your posts in particular, since your books practically raised me, but gimme a break. )
In other words, it's cool getting to know you a bit more informally, when you're not having characters ponder huge moral dilemmas or the fate of the universe. *grin* Thanks for posting lately, dude. Looking forward to your next projects.
posted
I'd just like to say Verai, this is the first forum site I've ever hit more than once in a row. I think it has to do with a couple things I haven't seen any of. In order, they are:
1. Stupid pointless arguements 2. Anyone calling anyone else a n00b. 3. Uneducated foolish conversation with absolutely no point. "omg my mom h8s me lol!"
It's probably because everyone here is literate, and willing to actually think from time to time. As a result, this forum hasn't instantly fallen to the lowest common denominator (as internet forums tend to do). If this is an accurate sampling of OSCs readers I'm proud to be associated with them.
You keep writing, I'll keep reading. That goes for both OSC and the forum people Posts: 68 | Registered: Mar 2005
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We have our share of that, but I like to think it doesn't happen as often here as it does on your average message board. As Mr. Card alluded to earlier, I came here originally out of an interest in his work, but the main reason I stayed is the overall maturity, sense of community, and quality of discourse I found here. I've joined a couple of message boards before, and lurked on a couple more before deciding not to join, but this is the only one I really think I'm in for the long haul.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Good post Verai. I'm in pretty much the same boat as you. Before coming to Hatrack I posted a lot on a gaming forum, and while I enjoyed posting there and playing games with the people there, the average age was probably 15. Now, I'm not saying all 15 year olds are super immature, but I'd say a good lot of them are. Most of the posts on the forum started degrading into LOL, ROFLMAO, Noob's, and that nonsense, and it got old. I still do post there, and I still like all the people there(well most of them I guess), but when I started coming to Hatrack I realized just how much I didn't like a lot of the conversation there, and how a bunch of the new people there are treated.
Anyway, I really like Hatrack, and how everyone here is just so nice.
quote: We have our share of that, but I like to think it doesn't happen as often here as it does on your average message board. As Mr. Card alluded to earlier, I came here originally out of an interest in his work, but the main reason I stayed is the overall maturity, sense of community, and quality of discourse I found here. I've joined a couple of message boards before, and lurked on a couple more before deciding not to join, but this is the only one I really think I'm in for the long haul.
posted
Not to sound like a suckup - or worse, a braggart - but I really do have unusually civilized readers. Bookstore people comment on it at my signings all the time - everyone is just plain nice, making everything go smoothly. People cooperate; they make friends in line; they take delays in good humor.
That spirit of - dare I say it? - civilization and decency is one of the reasons why this forum works so well. People really aren't out to score off each other or flame people. Plus ... when we DO get problem people, we enforce the rules. The surprising thing is how LITTLE enforcement is usually required. People here help each other learn how to get along.
It's one of the reasons I've been reluctant to take part ... it's like being the host of a party where there are GREAT conversations going on all over the house, and you realize that the LAST thing you want to do is try to organize everybody into a big game of charades ...
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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