posted
I recently talked to my classmate about book. He told me that the best sci-fiction/fantasy he read was Ursula's "Left Hand of darkness" and "Earthsea" saga. I do not like women's writing so I was rather skeptical, but he said that Lem, a writer I look up to, claims she's second best American writter, after Dick. I personally do not like Dick, but I borrowed her books. I liked them. I wondered, have you read them? The only woman I read before was Rowling, and it is a typical book for kids, so it's language was not very special. But Le Guin... from the first sentence I was sure it's a woman's writing. It is so obvious, and it hit me hard and I began to look for any symptoms why am I so sure about this. I didn't. Have you noticed something like this? I'm sure many of you read Le Guin. Of course, Mr. Card is much better Posts: 723 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I'm a bit puzzled why you would think that you didn't like female authors after having read one female author whose work you didn't connect with. Seems...odd. You say that you don't like "women's writing". How would you characterize such writing?
In any case, there's a whole world of good female SF authors out there. LeGuin is staggeringly good, as you've already discovered. Others whose work I love include Maureen McHugh, Octavia Butler, Pat Murphy, Nancy Kress, Robin Hobb, James Tiptree Jr., C. L. Moore and Lisa Tuttle.
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Ye gods, how can you mention that bunch of non-entities, and ignore Bujold? The greatest SF author of our day, bar none.
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well that was a refreshing dose of Monday Morning Misogyny...
Why on earth does it matter what the gender of the author is? I have never even paid attention to that. There's plenty of other stuff to worry about besides boobs when it comes to writing ability
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What about Andre Norton and Marion Zimmer Bradley? Egads, how dare you leave them out, you great honks!?!
Edit to add: I was a bit hasty in ending my list with those two as I immediately thought up more just after pressing the button. So. I add more. These are not necessarily scifi, although some are. These are just damn good female authors.
Anne McCaffrey. Dorothy Gilman. Anne Perry. Mary Stewart. Madeleine L'Engle. I'm sure I'll think of more...
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Who is it that wrote Outlander? I remember Olivet singing her praises pretty highly, and came this close to buying a used copy of Outlander on Saturday. Haven't actually read her stuff, but I trust Olivet's opinion pretty implicitly when it comes to fiction.
Quid, do you really consider all of the authors you named to be that good? I'm fond of Stewart and L'Engle, but I don't really care for any of the others you mentioned (Anne Perry I haven't read, and so have no opinion on).
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Isn't Anne Rice an erotic novel writer? Anyways... What was her name... the auther of "Who wants to be a wizrd" series is great.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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She's best known for her vampire novels Sid--Interview with a Vampire, The Vampire Lestat, Queen of the Damned, etc. There is certainly a strong erotic element to her fiction, but I wouldn't classify her as being primarily a writer of erotica.
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You might have been thinking of Laurell K Hamilton. I've not read her work, but my understanding is that her horror is very intensely erotic.
Back on the subject of female authors whose work I've really enjoyed, C. S. Friedman has turned out at least one good novel, The Madness Season. I loved Kathleen Anne Goonan's Queen City Jazz (and really should reread it and then read the sequels she's written since I first came across her stuff. I'm not a huge Elizabeth Moon fan, but her Paksenarrion trilogy is servicable. I've been hearing good things lately about Mary Doria Russel, and will be reading her The Sparrow as soon as I can find a used copy of it.
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Noeman, with the understanding that I read different books for different purposes, yes. Sometimes, I want a fluffy, easy, entertaining read. Then the Pern books, especially Dragonsong, Dragonsinger, and Dragon Drums are perfect, as are all of the Mrs. Pollifax books or Mary Stewart's adventures. The Darkover books are fun. Different types of books suit different moods.
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Actually Noeman Anne Rice wrote a trilogy about sleeping beuty which was erotic and quite detailed. However I only suggest to those with an open mind since it mixes some *cough* additional things in there. What I do is ignore those parts and skip on ahead.
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Quid, those three McCaffrey books you named are among her young adult stuff, aren't they? I think of her Menolly trilogy to be her best stuff. When I was a kid I *really* wanted to give Menolly from the first Harper's Hall book a pair of tennis shoes.
I can understand liking fluff for fluff's sake; I'm that way with Harry Turtledove's stuff actually.
Oh! Susan Cooper! How could I have forgotten Susan Cooper? The Dark is Rising is a phenomenal book. I'm not that wild about any of the other books in that series, but it stands on its own well enough that that isn't a problem.
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I haven't read it Sid. I don't deny that her work has a strong erotic component, I just don't think of her work as being erotica. Then again, I've only read the her vampire books, and not even all of those, so it's quite possible that I'm just pulling stuff from my nether regions here.
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The Sleeping Beauty trilogy was originally published under a pseudonym and it is definitely erotica. Intentionally so, and not just fantasy with erotic elements.
Edit: It is also one of the very few series in which my obsessive need to read every book by an author whose work I have enjoyed broke down and I didn’t finish it. I wouldn’t recommend it, even to someone who didn't mind reading sexually explicit material, because it’s tedious.
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I've met Jennifer Roberson. She breeds Cardigan Welsh Corgis as a hobby. Unfortunately I forgot to bring my books along to the National Specialty to get them autographed. Probably next year!
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I recently (okay, it was a while ago) talked to a pal about a book. She told me that the best Scifi writer was OSC, with his book Ender's Game. I do not like men's writing so I was rather skeptical, especially when I heard that it involved nearly all male characters and silly war games. But I read his books. I liked them.
I wondered, have you read any books by male authors? The ONLY man I've ever read before was Dr. Seuss, and it is a typical book for kids, so its language was not very special. But Card... from the first sentence I was SURE it was a man's writing. It is SO obvious, and it hit me hard and I began to look for any symptoms why am I so sure about this. I didn't.
Have you noticed something like this? With those MALE authors? I'm sure many of you read Card.
(Excessive female sarcasm here, just in case you can't tell.) Okay, and I am a *bit* POed that everyone starts naming female authors like they're some kind of rarity. I'm sure I could think of at least a hundred right off, just like I could think of at least a hundred male authors. It's a bit like the difference between authors with blond hair and authors with black hair. There's not really any difference. I'm disgusted.
Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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The point of naming them was to prove that they aren't a rarity. Although I am a bit surprised that Kathy Tyers wasn't mentioned.
In all honestly, I could care less what gender the author is. I mean, what does it matter? As long as the story is good, I don't care if it was written by the Flying Purple People Eater!
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quote:(Excessive female sarcasm here, just in case you can't tell.)
Under the circumstances, I didn't think it was excessive. I thought it was right on the mark. The implication in the original post that no woman could possibly have any stories worth reading was so absurd and beneath contempt that I'm somewhat dismayed that anyone dignified it by answering at all.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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I first came to really love sci-fi from reading Andre Norton. didn't know she was a "woman writer" until after I had fallen for Catseye, Galactic Derelict, The Stars Are Ours, Starborn, and several other books.
LeGuin is brilliant, one of the pivotal writers in the field. Octavia Butler has written some of the finest science fiction novels ever written - I think she's actually better than LeGuin. Robin Hobb is one of the finest writers of serious fantasy EVER.
Yet I feel I should remind you that there IS such a thing as "women's fiction," which is, by design or accident, designed to exclude many male readers. And it's easy to get confused about what it is a man feels shut out of - is it woman writers, or women's fiction? When I'm reading a "women's fantasy" I get so sick of the characters thinking about what to wear that I want to puke. GET ON WITH THE STORY, I shout, only I know that the intended community of readers thinks this IS part of the story.
When women write "women's fiction," there's nothing wrong with it - and nothing wrong with men who feel excluded from it. Just as there's nothing wrong with a woman who has no idea why Tom Clancy has a writing career. As communities and as genders, we have different interests. Duh.
That said, let's also remember that there are writers who do NOT try to write within a community of gender. I want men to read my "Women of Genesis" books, and I want women to read my science fiction. I want men to read my books that have female heroes, and I want women to read my books that have male heroes.
And when a woman is a good writer and is aiming for that broader audience, I have found no evidence that women are in any way either superior or inferior to men of the same ability level. Octavia Butler and Ursula K. LeGuin write male characters who are as convincingly male as their female characters are female. I try to do as well with my female characters as they do with male ones.
So my guess is that our original postero simply hasn't read enough fiction by women authors who were not writing "women's fiction." So he has some wonderful adventures ahead of him.
(And before someone points out the obvious: There are plenty of women who hate "women's fiction," just as there are plenty of men who hate "men's magazines"; and I am among the many men who actually like "chick flicks" better than the kinds of movies that, as a man, I'm supposed to like better. Any statement about what men and women want or do or ... whatever ... has no chance of being truthful unless we understand that the word "generally" or "often" or "by reputation" or some such cavil is appended to the assertion.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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Verily, my reason for posting is what Bretagne said. To show that good women writers are not a rarity or odd. And no, I also don't care whether an author is male or female. I only care if they can spin a good tale.
(And I don't like women's fiction. Blech!)
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Ah, now "women's fiction" I can accept. It was the apparent contempt for "women writers" that made my hackles raise. That said, I myself am not a fan of women's fiction (tends to bore me) though I'm female.
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I used to particularly avoid women authors in the fields of science fiction and, especially, fantasy. Why? Because I've found that a lot of work written by female writers seems to concentrate on romance, and TALKING ANIMALS!!! Sorry, but I'm allergic to talking animals. Talking horses especially make me break out in hives.
Fortunately I stumbled onto the work of Robin Hobb (er, yes, I didn't realise she was a woman when I started reading) and then I realised how dumb my attitude was. I had been reading the work of women authors all along - Le Guin, Susan Cooper, Marion Zimmer Bradley (to name a few). And I guess I was just thinking of them as exceptions. I quickly revised my opinion to classify all the talking horse stories as exceptions.
I just KNOW someone is going to jump in here and quote some irrefutable classic of literature that includes talking horses...
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Incidentally, I read a series of fantasy books as a kid about a girl who pretends to be her brother so she can train to be a knight. Anyone have a clue what it was?
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lonelywalker, you're thinking of Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness (Alanna: The First Adventure, In the Hands of the Goddess, The Woman Who Rides Like a Man, Lioness Rampant). I'm very fond of them, though I think Pierce's work does a nose dive in some of her more recent books.
Kate Elliott and Michelle West are both at the top of my personal female authors reading list at the moment.
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Well, I don't know about talking horses, but Gene Wolfe's The Knight and it's sequel The Wizard have a talking dog and cat, and The Wizard features a telepathic horse. Well, mount.
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"lonelywalker, you're thinking of Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness (Alanna: The First Adventure, In the Hands of the Goddess, The Woman Who Rides Like a Man, Lioness Rampant)."
Aha! The author's name sounds familiar, but the titles don't... Well, I will have to seek them out again. Thanks!
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Felix Salten's original novel Bambi was brilliant and beautiful. It has talking animals throughout, but I loved it.
But maybe if it had had a talking HORSE, I might have felt different about it.
WOMEN'S FICTION:
This includes, of course, the entire Romance genre - the books with half-dressed or period-costumed men looking at or grabbing a fainting or lusty or aloof woman.
But it also includes stylish and witty contemporary women's-scene novels, some of which are absolutely wonderful - even for a male like me. These are sometimes marketed as mysteries or as literary fiction, partly because if something is actually LABELED "Women's fiction" on the cover, it will be taken by most readers as a clear sign that it is anti-male. Which is not at all what the broadly-defined "women's fiction" category is about.
"Ya-Ya Sisterhood" and "Cold Sassy Tree" and "Fried Green Tomatoes" were all considered "women's fiction." And I LOVED Cold Sassy Tree.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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This thread remineded me that I've been meaning to read Ursula LeGuin. I've somehow missed out on reading any of her beyond a few of her (quite fantastic) short stories. Does anyone have any suggestions for which of her books I should start with?
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As for that whole YA fiction label - so what? I read Madeline L'Engle as an adult. Never heard of her as a teenager. Still loved her anyway. So the books weren't as long, detailed, or complex, but they were still very enjoyable. They can still serve their purpose in an adult reader's world.
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I will be one of the first to admit that while I am a vid reader, for a long time I read only male writters. It wasn't until late high school that I finally read L'Engle and other female authors. What OSC said it true(obviously) There is a seperate feild for male and female authors, however, there are many, many wondeful female authors who like OSC, don't give ducks' wing about writting for a specific gender. One such woman I recently discovered was Melanie Rawn and her Mageborn series. I have just started another of hers and am loving it. SO to all of those who read only one gender, that is your choice and no disrespect, but you are missing out on some great stories.
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you most certainly should read the Earth Sea book sby LeGuin. They are classic Ya literature but there are wonderful. My first dip into Fantasy was her A Wizard of Earthsea back in like 5th grade. I remember thinking it was ok back then (of course this was before I discovered the true joys of reading) but I've since read in numerous times as an adult and love it.
Door - If you like Melanie Rawn I think you would enjoy her Dragon Prince Trilogy. I believe it is her first series. You are reading Exiles which is still a work in progress if I am correct. But I've only read the Dragon Prince books so I could be wrong but I did enjoy them quite a bit.
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Agnes, if I were you I'd start with Left Hand of Darkness. It's widely considered to be her best work, I think, and is certainly a brilliant and brilliantly told story. I'd also pick up her short story colletion The Compass Rose. She has quite a few excellent collections out there, but that one is far and away my favorite. Has some of my favorite short stories by any author actually.
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As far as LeGuin's collections go, I'm actually partial to The Wind's Twelve Quarters. But "Some Approaches to the Problem of the Shortage of Time," in Compass Rose, may rate as one of the most hysterically funny pieces I've ever read.
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That said, I really don't like the Keladry books. I feel like they're trying to be Alana and failing. And I don't like Kel at all. I do, however love the Circle of Magic books that everyone else seems to hate. I think people forget that they're written for a much younger age group than the Alana books.
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UPS. I just wanted to say that women write differently than men. And if you agree with it. Of course I read many women, It was kind of a exaggeration, what I wrote. And I do like Le Guin. And thanks for comments, anyway
Posts: 723 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Wow. I never thought of paying attention to the gender of an author as a reason to pick up a book or leave it on the shelf. I just want good stories, told well. Author's personalities and genders are interesting as trivia, but it really has very little to do with the stories they choose to tell.
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::nods:: Yeah, exactly Jenny. Fiction, especially SF, is a huge hobby of mine, and I tend to know a lot of trivia about it. The author's gender falls into that category.
A few months back I was cataloging all of my fiction, and my father was helping me. I'd divided my library up into alphabetical by author piles, and he was calling out authors, title and publication dates for each book as I typed it up. It always took him a minute to find the publication date, and I'd generally make a stab at it. I was almost always within a year or so of the right date, which I found gratifying.
Yes, that's completely off the subject.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Thanks for the mention of Melanie Rawn. Book to start with?
And I inhaled Tamora Pierce's entire oeuvre in the past year. She's wonderful, though with her ups and downs, like all of us. Ups and downs for each individual reader, that is - the book I care for less will be someone else's favorite!
LeGuin: Earthsea is one direction, but her whole interlinked series of books culminating with Left Hand of Darkness is wonderful. I loved Rocannon's World, and there were others.
City of Illusions. The Word for World Is Forest. Lathe of Heaven.
She got into a "literary" mode for a while, where story was neglected. And now she's best known as the writer of Earthsea books. But she had a transformative influence on science fiction at the beginning of her career. Most of those books are, sadly, out of print.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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Thank you guys, now I don't feel quite so bad for being a sixteen year old male and still reading Tamora Peirce.
It's actually rather fun going through and reading her early stuff, and seeing how far she's come since Alanna: The First Adventure. Especially in Trickster's Choice and Queen, the quality of writing is just noticeably different.
And yes, Kel's story could have been better, but at least it was an attempt to move her world along. Circle of Magic was great, I'm not quite as fond of the Open Circle (I moved all of her books off the shelf behind me, I don't recall the exact name). But Shatterglass was pretty good.
One author I'm suprised that hasn't been mentioned is Diane Wynne Jones (or maybe I just missed it), she's older, but I really enjoyed The Homeward Bounders, the Crestomanci (I hope I spelled that right, series, the Dalemark Quartet, and Dogsbody. Most of her fantasy is great.
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The Eye of the Heron is a good one (of LeGuin's) also.
I really didn't realize that she was so well known for her Earthsea books. They're more of a sidenote in my mind when I think of her stuff, but googling her almost every review of her work I'm finding refers to her as the author of the Earthsea books.
When you're talking about her literary period, are you thinking of stuff like Always Coming Home? That's one that I've never been able to make much headway in, despite a number of attempts. There are also some later short stories that struck me as veering a bit toward misandry, but it was years ago when I read them, so I don't know that I'd still perceive them that way now.
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