posted
There is a huge gap between _Shadow of the Giant_ and _Speaker for the Dead _, Earth and the Free Earth government is still around at the end of SOFG, but it isn't really involved in any of the Speaker series. I though Earth was destroyed when the Starways Congress of the Hundred Worlds was formed. But then, after rereading _Xenocide_ and _Children of the Mind_, they mention that instanteous travel would allow people to visit Earth. _Investment Counsulor_ doesn't mention Earth at all.
So my question is, what happens to Earth? Is it still around? Is it part of the Hundred Worlds or in some sort of exile? Or destoryed? Or is it so far away that no one knows what heppened to it? (If Earth's ansible was destroyed, then it is quite possible that no one is able to talk to them and thus no one knows what is going on. And there may be other reasons why sending a ship or a fleet to Earh is undoable or at least undesirable.) What happened to the People of the Free Earth? Did the government collapse after Peter the Hegemon die or what?
I was thinking that talking about the fall of Earth and the birth of the Starways Congress would make for another good Ender spinoff. But then I realized that OSC would have to write 3000 years of fiction in order to do that. I'm just estimating wildly here, but even a talented novelist like OSC would still need about 150 years to write all that.
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posted
It's become rather common in far-future set sci-fi to have that Earth was destroyed, lost, forgotten, etc. But I don't think that there's anything in Speaker or the subsequent novels which suggests that Earth isn't still around and part of the 100 worlds. Presumably there'd be more than one anisible on Earth, so I don't know how they'd ALL be destroyed, and even if they were, I'm sure that someone would be sent to investigate and set up new ones. I don't think there were any major wars after Peter united the planet, so I doubt it would have been nuked into a dust ball or something, and as polution was never mentioned as a problem in any of the novels, and would likely become even less of an issue once population pressure and resource management issues were nullified by interstellar colonization, I don't see any reason why Earth wouldn't be better off in all respects than it is in the present. The significance of being able to travel to Earth via Outside travel is probably just because it would be such a long trip from Lusitania by conventional means. They're 20 years away from the nearest member of the Hundred Worlds, they could very well be more than 100 years travel time distant from Earth. So Grego (I think it was him) was marveling at fact that he would be able to go to Earth and be back home from dinner, whereas before a round trip might have taken lifetimes.
Also, I could be mistaken but I think that it was said in CotM that Starways Congress is formally based on Earth. I think that Wang mu assumed that she and Peter would be going there in order to convince them to stop the fleet, but of course Peter recognized that there were other less direct ways to influence them. I'd imagine that the FPE gradually evolved into Starways Congress. After all, Congress is still lead by a Hegemon, and Peter is remembered as "the first" Hegemon (though not literally).
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quote:Originally posted by Ramdac99: and it's Speaker for the Dead, not Speaker of the Dead
The title of the first book in the Speaker of the Dead series is _Speaker for the Dead_.
Actually, as I like to think about it, it is the Ender series and the Shadow/Bean series, but the Speaker of the Dead series is a subset of the last 3 books in the Ender series. (Actually, one can break it down further by saying the last 2 books are of the Xenocide/Philote series - but whats the point in naming a series made up of only 2 books?)
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quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: It's become rather common in far-future set sci-fi to have that Earth was destroyed, lost, forgotten, etc. But I don't think that there's anything in Speaker or the subsequent novels which suggests that Earth isn't still around and part of the 100 worlds. Presumably there'd be more than one anisible on Earth, so I don't know how they'd ALL be destroyed, and even if they were, I'm sure that someone would be sent to investigate and set up new ones. I don't think there were any major wars after Peter united the planet, so I doubt it would have been nuked into a dust ball or something, and as polution was never mentioned as a problem in any of the novels, and would likely become even less of an issue once population pressure and resource management issues were nullified by interstellar colonization, I don't see any reason why Earth wouldn't be better off in all respects than it is in the present. The significance of being able to travel to Earth via Outside travel is probably just because it would be such a long trip from Lusitania by conventional means. They're 20 years away from the nearest member of the Hundred Worlds, they could very well be more than 100 years travel time distant from Earth. So Grego (I think it was him) was marveling at fact that he would be able to go to Earth and be back home from dinner, whereas before a round trip might have taken lifetimes.
Also, I could be mistaken but I think that it was said in CotM that Starways Congress is formally based on Earth. I think that Wang mu assumed that she and Peter would be going there in order to convince them to stop the fleet, but of course Peter recognized that there were other less direct ways to influence them. I'd imagine that the FPE gradually evolved into Starways Congress. After all, Congress is still lead by a Hegemon, and Peter is remembered as "the first" Hegemon (though not literally).
Yes that makes perfect sense. And what the other person said about Earth just not being important also makes sense, why Earth isn't mentioned at all in the series.
I do remember reading somewhere that the FPE fell after Peter the Hegemon died. Not sure if this is true - it certainly isn't mentioned in any of the books. I wonder how the FPE would have handled the first colonies. Given them a voice in the government or subject them to total control or what?
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posted
My impression was that the first colonies were just that, colonies. Totally autonomous and self-governed. My thought is that they would stay that way until there were enough of them with populations and trade to rival Earth, which would be when the Starways Congress was formed. Certain membership guidelines were set, and once you reached those guidelines you could join and have an equal say in things.
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posted
And I agree with El JT on the first colonies. It certainly seems like they're autonomous at the end of EG. Plus, until there were enough of them and they were powerful enough, there wouldn't be suffieient reason to use the ansible, which even in Qing-jao's day was quite expensive.
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: My impression was that the first colonies were just that, colonies. Totally autonomous and self-governed. My thought is that they would stay that way until there were enough of them with populations and trade to rival Earth, which would be when the Starways Congress was formed. Certain membership guidelines were set, and once you reached those guidelines you could join and have an equal say in things.
Yeah, that's what I figure too. That's probably when they dissolved FPE and formed the Starways Congress as an interstellar equivalent. It's not that the FPE crumbled or died, it's just that a governing body for the "Free Peoples of Earth" is no longer quite as relevant when the majority of the human race no longer lives on Earth. At that point, it's more important to govern the interactions between those colonized worlds, and keep them unified enough so that the human race doesn't become alien to each other.
On a side note:
quote: The title of the first book in the Speaker of the Dead series is _Speaker for the Dead_.
Actually, as I like to think about it, it is the Ender series and the Shadow/Bean series, but the Speaker of the Dead series is a subset of the last 3 books in the Ender series. (Actually, one can break it down further by saying the last 2 books are of the Xenocide/Philote series - but whats the point in naming a series made up of only 2 books?)
I don't think that there's any official series name for any of the subsets of books within the Enderverse, but usually Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind are collectively referred to simply as "the Speaker trilogy/series/books". Collectively calling them "Speaker of the Dead" is a bit confusing since one of the individual books is titled "Speaker for the Dead".
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: On a side note:
quote: The title of the first book in the Speaker of the Dead series is _Speaker for the Dead_.
Actually, as I like to think about it, it is the Ender series and the Shadow/Bean series, but the Speaker of the Dead series is a subset of the last 3 books in the Ender series. (Actually, one can break it down further by saying the last 2 books are of the Xenocide/Philote series - but whats the point in naming a series made up of only 2 books?)
I don't think that there's any official series name for any of the subsets of books within the Enderverse, but usually Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind are collectively referred to simply as "the Speaker trilogy/series/books". Collectively calling them "Speaker of the Dead" is a bit confusing since one of the individual books is titled "Speaker for the Dead".
Yeah, you're probably right. "The Speaker trilogy" is a lot clearer.
Since it's almost halloween, here is another fun name: "The Dead trilogy." ;D
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posted
Where did you get the "of" in the name from, anyway? I don't think I've ever seen that before, for any of the books. It doesn't make sense to my poor confused mind; I'm sticking with "Speaker trilogy".
Back to the subject of Earth, I'm pretty sure nothing happened to it. Remember in SftD when they mentioned the Bishop would be sent to the Vatican for discipline? (And no, I don't think "the Vatican" is another world; the Catholic Church tends to hold on to tradition.)
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posted
Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but in Dan Simmon's Hyperion series the Vatican is on a different planet. I think the Catholic Church literally picked it up and planted it on another world rather than rebuild it, since as you say, they are big on tradition. But of course, they only had to do that because Hyperion is in fact one of those far future sci-fi stories where Earth is no more... Well actually, that's not entirely true, but if I said more it would spoil the books for those who haven't read them.
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posted
Good point. I remember now. And I guess the books never specifically say that the Vatican was on Earth, I just assumed it.
So I'll just go with the other evidence that Earth exists. Like Grego's statement, and the fact that Earth is always referred to in the present tense in Xenocide.
By the way, was Starways Congress based on Earth? It is a sort of obvious assumption, but I don't know if I've ever read or heard it before.
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posted
I don't think it makes sense for Starways Congress to meet on any single planet. The representives would take thousands of years to rendezvous in a single place, for a single meeting. Not very practical.
More likely, each of the Hundred Worlds would have a Starways Congress Hall in their captitol city or something, and they'd conduct meetings over audio-video connections. Perhaps even using something akin to the Jedi holocron.
Then again, what do i know?
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posted
I personally think that all of these issues, including the detailed formation of the Starways Congress, should be addressed in the future pre-Speaker Ender novel that OSC is planning. Seeing Ender and Randi's baby play a part of all the political maneuvering would also be very interesting.
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posted
Ender in Exile probably won't be far enough in the future to deal with the formation of Starways Congress. I think that during the time of the Speaker trilogy it had been established almost 2000 years earlier. That means about 1000 years after Shadow of the Giant.
Anyway, here's an idea. I have Xenocide and CotM in electronic formats for easy searching. I'll search for all the relevant references to Earth...
Xenocide:
quote:The days on Path were half again as long as those on Earth
Okay, that doesn't tell us anything about the current status of Earth...
quote:...and in that time we have learned what Earthbound scientists in the years before that could never learn-which behaviors are common to all planets and stellar systems, and which are unique to the Earth and the Sol System.
note the present tense.
quote:"What's Eros?" asked Miro. "An asteroid near Earth,"
Again, a casual reference to Earth in the present tense.
quote:"I'm talking about getting off this two-bit colony planet. Don't you understand? If this is all true, if it works, then I can fly to Rheims or Baia or-or Earth and come back here for weekends.
Grego talking about the potential of "Outside" travel. Note that he lists Earth among other presumably thriving worlds.
Children of the Mind:
quote:But the heart of Pacifica had always been and remained today the tropical islands of the ocean called Pacific in memory of the largest sea on Earth.
Well, that almost makes it sound like Earth isn't around anymore... Or maybe something happened to the Pacific ocean?
Those seem to be all the relevant references. Every other mention of the word "Earth" is either speaking of "earthborn" eccology, or references to the fact that the Wiggin siblings used to live there. They don't tell us much, but I still think that Earth is okay.
Oh yeah, so I guess that there's wasn't any remark about Starways Congress being based on Earth. My memory must have been playing tricks on me. Now that I think about it, you're right, LarvalBean. They couldn't actually meet on one planet considering the time lost through relativistic flight. They must have conference anisible calls.
posted
I have a vague memory of someone somewhere in the books saying Earth was a nuclear wasteland ... I am likely very wrong, but I'm gonna look for it anyways. And as for the present tense issue, Ender would likely still refer to it in the present tense because he had lived there and as for Grego's quote ... maybe saying "Earth" as we would say .... oh, I dunno, "Constantinople". lol. Sorry, pretty bad explanation ... I'm probably the only one who would say "constantinople". But you get the idea ... sort of like something unattainable, but with this new power, it would be attainable. I dunno. I'm grasping at straws. I'll have to see if I can find that nuclear wasteland quote ... it was either in SftD or Xenocide, since I haven't read CotM in ages.
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posted
As I said, I did a complete search on the word "Earth" in text file versions of X and CotM. All of the relevant quotations are posted above. I didn't do a search on SftD because I don't recall there being much mention of Earth. I stand by my statement that there is no evidence in any of the novels to suggest that Earth was destroyed, lost, or uninhabited for any other reason. The closest thing is the "In memory of the largest sea on Earth" remark from CotM. Anyway, I think it would be cool if Earth is visited in "Shadows in Flight".
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posted
Earth is still around - Never does it mention its destruction - the last REAL mention of it is at the end of Enders Game when Ender talks to Peter over the ansible to make The Hegemon. Aside from that it is the original planet from the 100 worlds, probally it's population is at a all time low because of entire civilizations of people making a world for themselves. It probally is one of the last truly multicultural planets left.
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posted
Earth is still around, not destroyed. But, like Rome in the Roman Empire after Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople, it's there, it's important in memory, but it's not a player anymore. It's like an aging parent whose griping can be largely ignored even though everyone still has great affection and happy memories of his halcyon days. Or like France.
By the way, colonies are by definition NOT autonomous. But Earth has a lot of history of colonies BECOMING autonomous, and that must have been the expectation. The Starways Congress came into existence precisely because no one world could maintain order over the others - a legitimate collective government was needed, with the authority to maintain interplanetary laws (like the planetary charters).
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posted
Well, if the colonies didn't become autonomous, then that would have been a surprise. Considering I don't think the Earth Gov was going to want to do a whole lot in the way of governing colonies too much, when they took decades to reach.
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