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Other than you, (grovel grovel slurp) Mark Helprin is my favorite author. Reading his books, because of his delightful and visual descriptive prose, is to me like visiting an art gallery.
I'm not a writer, but I remember that I have read statements from you, that if you notice a writer's style, then the artist is not writing well, that he is trying to get you to notice him rather than plot and character. (Same with actors - Meryl Streep seems to be the example you use mostly) I think MH rocks in terms of plot and character, too, but there are so many times I will read a paragraph of his aloud to my partner, because the prose is just so beautiful.
You are a poet also. How do you feel poetry intersects with the prose in your novel writing?
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I've never heard of Mark Helprin - do you have some recommendations on where to start with his books/stories/poetry/whatever he writes? Thanks! Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I've been trying to reconcile OSC's low opinion of writers with high styles with OSC's greatness as a stylist for a long time. Frankly, I'm not sure I really understand OSC on the topic.
I think I'm a pretty good writer (don't laugh - you haven't read my fiction - it's not....terrible) and one of my primary influences is Orson Scott Card. At least, insofar as I can see my own influences. Grew up on Card, and Card was one of the first writers who really made me take notice of what a writer could do creatively in terms of structure and rhythm. I'm not talking about Danielewski kind of theatrics, but there's a clipped immediacy, for example, to the beginning of Ender's Game, that doesn't sound like anything another writer would ever write, and it draws the reader in immediately, and it's very stylish. Another example might be the "This is (was?) the --" opening to Lost Boys. Or the story "Damn Fine Novel" -- or, heck -- any one of a dozen other examples I can think of right off the top of my head.
I'm pretty sure Card would hate my fiction. And it's not that I'm trying to be stylish just for the sake of showing off -- I'm trying to express something, and I'm trying to use interesting language, and I'm trying not to repeat the easy phrases and rhythms of other writers.
What I don't understand is -- I really think OSC has an interesting and unique voice and until I started reading his thoughts *about* writing, I always thought he was a stylist. In his own completely unique way, I loved reading the language of OSC the same way I loved reading Zelazny, when I was a kid. I think OSC engages in a lot of stylistic shenanigans.. So sometimes I don't understand why he discourages that kind of thing.
That was a bit off topic. I realize this. I actually have never read Mark Helprin. I'll have to check him out, Loki, after you've responded to Libbie.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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I think that OSC encourages a writing style that interferes with the reading exerience as little as possible. any time you stop reading to think about a sentence, then the style has interrupted the story. But I personally find myself stopping often in OSC books to comment to myself on a line (especially his dialogue--see the post on humor in OSC novels). I think if anything, the difference would be reacting emotionally--"that's funny!" "That's beautiful!" "That's exactly how I feel about that!"--and reactig intelectually--"Ahh, the author is clearly very smart, becaus ehe kows how to work a metaphor." I think that intelectual reaction is what really cheeses OSC off.
Posts: 368 | Registered: Dec 2005
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I think Card's love for Bradbury shows he's not opposed to an authour having a style, or to stylistic embellishments per se.
Kinda like Hank said, What I think I've gathered from what Card's written is that he's opposed to stories that are about the style, where nothing much happens except somebody talking in a weird way. Or stories that are lost in style.
This doesnt mean stories can't be challenging. He includes Felix Gotschalk in his Future on Fire anthology, even though he freely admits sometimes you have to read a Gotschalk paragraph three or four times before you figure out what he's talking about.
But the point is still for the story to be understood by the reader, not to be "decoded" by someone "in the know."
I think his opinion on style is the same as his opinion of poetry. It's wonderful as long as it's accessible to readers, and adds something to what's being said.
Posts: 241 | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Libbie: I've never heard of Mark Helprin - do you have some recommendations on where to start with his books/stories/poetry/whatever he writes? Thanks!
I heartily recommend Winter's Tale. It's one of my favorite books ever. And I'm not ordinarily a big reader of non-genre fiction. It's rich and it's satisfying, and it makes most of the books I read feel like cotton-candy by comparison.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Libbie: I've never heard of Mark Helprin - do you have some recommendations on where to start with his books/stories/poetry/whatever he writes? Thanks!
I heartily recommend Winter's Tale. It's one of my favorite books ever. And I'm not ordinarily a big reader of non-genre fiction. It's rich and it's satisfying, and it makes most of the books I read feel like cotton-candy by comparison.
Read the first couple of pages on Amazon and I'm already hooked. I'll be buying it today! thanks, Lisa!
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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"Winter's Tale" is more fantasy than any of his other books, so would probably appeal to this crowd the most. I think the main theme of this book is "justice"
"Soldier of the Great War" is more of a historical novel, complete with battle scenes, but the theme of the book is actually "beauty"
"Memoir found in Antproof Case" - a little sillier, but still beautiful
"Refiners Fire" - About the horrendous things we live through to make us what we are
"Freddy and Frederika" - hilarious fantasy about the prince and princess of Wales being dropped out of a helicopter into the New Jersey marshes, nekkid, with no money, in order to make their way and learn about non-royal reality. Newest book, still in hardback
He also has a couple of short story books - "Ellis Island and Other Stories" is one, and a couple of children's books.
Loki
Would someone more connected than me direct OSC to this post, because I really would like to know what he thinks.
Posts: 39 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:What I think I've gathered from what Card's written is that he's opposed to stories that are about the style, where nothing much happens except somebody talking in a weird way. Or stories that are lost in style.
That would make more sense to me. Thanks for shedding some light.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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