posted
Ok, so for very long and complicated reasons, I don't speak to, or even acknowledge my mother's girlfriend's existence.
Today, my brother called my mother to see if she wanted to have lunch. He gets off the phone, and asks if I want to come. I say sure. We head over to my mother's house in two cars cause he's going to a doctor's appointment from there. We get there, he's in the house when I pull in, and stops me at the door "Wait a second, Gabi's here." So I go outside to wait for my mother to come out and let me know whats going on.
5-7 minutes later, I leave, because no one has come out to acknowledge me.
I get back home, put some leftover chinese in the microwave, start eating, and my mother calls "I just went out to talk to you and saw you'd left." Well, at this point, its now been 15-20 minutes since I got to her house. I'm supposed to wait that long for someone to even acknowledge me? I understand I put my mother in a difficult situation by not talking to her girlfriend, but she could have at least come out and said "This will be a few minutes."
Now, what SHOULD have happened, is my brother should have asked my mother if Gabi was there, or told her I might come. My mother should have asked if I was coming. I should have asked my brother if Gabi was there (She'd been in Israel for a while, due to her mother being ill... so I didn't know when she was coming back).
But none of that happened. Once I got to my mother's house, I feel like, after waiting something over 5 minutes, I've waited long enough, I feel stupid sitting out there waiting for someone to come out, I have no idea how long it will be, so I left.
When my mother called me, 10 or 12 minutes after I left her house, she was angry at me for having taken off. "You could have waited, you could have had lunch with us." Well, yes, but how do i KNOW that? I don't. And no one bothered to inform me of how long it might take, or that negotiations were even in progress, for some sort of decision to be reached.
So I'm hurt and angry that my mother doesn't even think to acknowledge that I am there.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
"So I'm hurt and angry that my mother doesn't even think to acknowledge that I am there."
I think it's also likely that your mother is hurt and angry by the fact that you don't acknowledge her girlfriend.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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There's obviously a story behind this, and whatever it is, Paul feels tremendously hurt by it. He came to Hatrack for some assurance and love. And he'll find it.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Hon, these family things can be so hard. Is it possible your mom wasn't ready to go? Could it be that you feel like she's somehow put this other relationship above her relationship with you?
Take consolation in the fact that your mom would not have called you if she didn't care about you. Even the fact that she was angry is proof that she cares (as perverse as that may sound). I remember being vaguely miffed (as a young adult) when I realized that my mother's life no longer revolved around me the way it once had.
Obviously, there's a lot more to it than that, but I still urge you not to make this one incident a reason for shutting your mom out of your life. People make mistakes. She may realize she blew it and be too proud to admit it or some such. I urge you to give her the benefit of the doubt. It may seem right now like you have forever to work this out with her, but believe me you don't.
You have a right to be miffed, but please don't let this grow into something you'll regret.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Kat, I'm sure there IS a story behind this.
But if Paul chooses to ignore the existence of someone his mother clearly cares about deeply -- to the point of sitting in the car and steaming, then driving away, lest he accidentally see her or talk to her -- then he should learn to live with what I consider the inevitable consequences of that decision. I sympathize with his pain, but don't think -- based on his description of the incident -- that his family was in the wrong, here.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Yes, Tom, she is. There's a very long and complex problem here, but the simple part is that Gabi hates men with a passion, and has tried to drive all the men out of my mother's life. Its easier for me and my mother to have ANY relationship if Gabi and I don't associate. Since Gabi threw me out of their house TWICE, I don't feel like I owe anything to Gabi for my mother's sake.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
*nod* But understand that your mother will almost certainly not see it that way; if she shared your opinion of Gabi, she would no longer be with her.
By choosing to interact with your mother solely on your own terms, you force yourself to face the possibility that those terms may occasionally be rejected.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I COULD go into the long and stupid story, Tom, but I don't really think you want to hear it. Obviously this is going to happen... I understand that. My mother knows that Gabi and I don't talk. She owes me something, too, though. I'm her oldest son, and her girlfriend threw me out of their house TWICE, once when I was suicidal.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Paul, just remember that perception of time is very subjective. While five minutes impatiently waiting for someone in a car can feel like half an eternity, the same amount of time might barely register if you have to finish off some tasks, discuss some last minute matters and whatnot. It is certainly possible that your mother thought it unecessary to go out and and let you know what went on if she estimated that she would be ready to go in a moment, which then stretched out longer that she anticipated.
I don't know whether you posted for support and sympathy -- in which case you have mine; your situation certainly sounds complicated -- or were searching for some sort of explanation. If the latter, the above is how I would explain your mother's apparent neglect. You gain nothing from looking for slights where there are none intended .
posted
Paul, you've definitely got a tough situation there, but someone, somewhere has to give before it can get any better.
Think of how long you were waiting outside. Maybe enough time for one or two songs on the radio. Then you drove home and less than 20 minutes after you left, your Mom calls you. This whole incident took less than 30 minutes, counting drive time, apparently. Perhaps your Mom was in the bathroom or something?
Now Gabi may be a full-fledged man hater, but your brother was inside the house while you waited outside, right? How come he's fine to go in? I mean, is there some reason why his relationship with them is easier?
How did the troubles between Gabi and you start? Is the problem with her in particular, the living arrangements or is it because that she's your Mom's "significant other"?
I'm asking to get an idea of the situation, not to lay blame on you. The initial situation is obviously not something you set in motion, but I'd like to know where along the line you got run over.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I have to go with Paul on this one for the most part. Paul is family, Gabi is just current girlfriend. Mom should make room for family over current live in.
quote: Paul is family, Gabi is just current girlfriend.
That assumes a lot based on the evidence given.
However, I do sympathize with you, Paul. Family tensions are difficult to deal with and rarely fully understood by those not participating in them. I wish you well.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Even if they were married it should not matter. Gabi has to accept that Pauls Mom has "luggage" namely kids from when she was married. This is a prior obligaition that takes precedent over the current situation. You don't go out with some one who hates your kids just becuase they are male. Or who hates your kids for no good reason. And before you get into the "whole good reason" part, I have met Paul personally. I have spent a whole afternoon talking with him. I have "known" him from his writings at Ornery for almost three years now. He is not some drugged out loser who deserves to be kicked out of the family.
Paul, Does your mother know how you and Gabi feel about each other? I assume that she does. If she does, why does she put you in such a postion? I would be pissed at my Mom too.
You should and probably will get over it. It is ok to be pissed for while. Just remember she is your Mother
posted
IMHO, Gabi is in the wrong for trying to drive away her girlfriend's son. Whatever preference you have, you can't expect to just drive yourself between your SO and your SO's kids. That's just moronic.
And I'm sorry, Paul, your mother's in the wrong for letting it happen. The same thing's happening to one of my best friends and her mother. Her mom's boyfriend is a jerk who constantly tries to make her life miserable and drive her from the house.
It must be hard to try to still interact with your mom while outing her girlfriend. Try to think about what your mom feels like though. This isn't at all about your mom making you wait. To me, it seems like this has been around a lot, or was a long time coming.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I agree that Paul is one of the most nicest Hatrackers I have never met, and that he has a right to be pissed.
I just know what it's like to have a falling out over something relatively minor and end up with a broken relationship because of it. It is really, really important to get closure with your parents. For YOUR life, if not for them.
I have been down that road and am trying to help sweet young Paul avoid future bitterness.
I didn't mean to sound condescending, Paul, and I hope you didn't take it that way.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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My mother also had a girlfriend after her divorce. She also kicked me out of the house when I was 15, I lived with foster parents for a year. The girlfriend was a horrible aggressive alcoholic. I guess my mom was scared to have any conflict with her, so my brother and sister and I always came in second place. When my brother left, my sister couldn't stand it for more than a couple of months alone with those two. She ran away when she was 15.
People can have really sick relationships. I don't know anything about your story, but you have my full sympathy and I think I can imagine what this thing is doing to your family.
*hugs
If you want to vent, feel free to email me.
Posts: 1247 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
Sadly, the Mom is the one who needs, more than anything, to set this situation straight. That might take compromise from both Paul and Gabi, but the hard work needs to be done by the Mom.
I got kicked out of the house three days after I graduated high school because my step father and I didn't get along. My Mom was in love and honestly, she wasn't going to take my side against him. She and I didn't talk for a year and my 18th birthday present from her was unceremoniously dumped on the front porch of the boarding house I had managed to find a place to live at. Of course, she did bring me a birthday present, so her heart was in the right place.
I couldn't stand the guy, his drinking, his coke habit, his idiocy, the mental and physical abuse. But, my Mom, who loved him, didn't see the same problems that I did. I chalk it up to rose-colored glasses and his ability to shift blame to the kids. Two years later after my sister graduated, she was tossed out on her ear as well for being a problem child.
The funny thing is, a year later, after they had had some time alone, my Mom gave my step-dad the boot. I never pushed for that and after I left home, I quit trying to point out his faults. She eventually figured them out on her own and solved it. My Mom and I get along much better now and what happened before isn't spoken of. I let it go when I left home and went on about my life. She was in a bad situation but couldn't see it, but I couldn't make her see it until she could look with her own eyes. Now, why bring it up?
Of course, those first few nights away from home in a place filled with junkies, ex-cons and recently released mental patients wasn't a picnic. But that's my life and if nothing else it was on my own terms.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Sounds like your brother didn't know Gabi was there? Your mother didn't know you were coming? And so when you arrived at the house nobody was expecting any problems. Had they known in advance they could have headed it off, perhaps. As it was, maybe what happened was the least upsetting thing that could have been.
All I know is it's necessary to forgive your family again and again and again. Always one must be ready to forgive and start anew, to keep those bonds intact.
I know that some people's families are bad enough that "divorcing" them is the only thing to do. It sounds like you and your mom aren't to that point. I hope it would never come to that but I know that sometimes it does. That's really painful and hard, like an amputation, I expect.
I know with my family there's one sibling I've pretty much had to write off, but the rest I will not give up on ever. If there was even any sign from that one sibling of a desire for a connection I would seize on it immediately and do what I could. But I think that one's hopeless.
Being right, who is right and who wrong, doesn't even come into it. It's only about not destroying each other. About building instead of tearing down.
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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When I read your post I knew what you wanted to hear, that your mother was unfair and wrong and you were right to leave.
But I wasn't willing to say that, for when I read the post it appeared that you didn't like your mother having a girlfriend.
Now I realize that its not your mother having a girlfriend that is the difficulty. Its this specific girl that is the problem.
She seems manipulative, violent, selfish and dangerous.
I am still in no position to judge her or your mother, only having your story to go by, but your story sounds plausible.
So after taking a breather, and finding out more about your situation, I give you my sympathy and my support.
You did leave out of a sense of hurt and pride. But you also didn't take that hurt pride and force a confrontation with this woman and your mother. You didn't just sit there and act like nothing was wrong, allowing her to push your mother over you.
You reminded your mother that you have dignity and that you won't be kept waiting by someone who apparently resents the love your mother has for you.
Of course, she may read this all wrong. I suggest that you talk to her about it, in detail.
That will be hard, and she may not be ready to hear it, but you should try.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
While in a "mother" thread, I will rant for a moment. My situation isn't as difficult as yours Paul, largely because of the distance between us. My mother can't handle the fact that I have different values and ideas from her own, though she raised me to be an independent thinker.
So now she sends me books and clippings that are supposed to verify her "side". The thing is that we really aren't as far apart in values as she thinks we are. She sent me this book that was basically a conservative backlash against the sixties called "What Our Mothers Didn't Tell Us: Why Happiness Eludes the Modern Woman" About 2/3 of the book I agree with though I disagree with the logic style. I would agree with the argument she used and then come to the exact opposite conclusion at the end of the paragraph. Or I would agree with her final point but think the argument leading up to it was absolute trash.
So I just called her. To let her know I still am thinking about her and do love her. I brought up the book, since a friend of mine and I have both read it and discussed it over the weekend. She was like "Well I just skimmed it but I thought it would make you think about things you disagreed with."
I was trying to look at the book as an invitation to dialogue, rather than a slam saying that she "knows" I am unhappy based on the title. While if you judge our actual relative happiness I would say that I am truly happy and she is only pretending to be happy. With the book as a starting point for dialogue we might have actually gotten somewhere. Now I just feel hurt that I got suckered into hoping we might have an honest conversation that didn't involve raised voices again.
When I talked to her just now, it didn't involve raised voices, but it wasn't honest either and included several veiled insults by her of my boyfriend.
I agree, your mother was wrong. You're cool enough to respect her girlfriend's weirdo demands, and she can't even stick her head out the door and say "Hi, this is going to take a few minutes"? That is a complete lack of respect on her part. Or she could have even sent your brother out to tell you it would take a few minutes.
Granted, in a perfect world, everyone would have asked the right questions in the beginning, but since that didn't happen, a small amount of respect is in order. You did your share, by not entering the house per Gabi's demands. A "hello" is the least your mother could have done.
Rude things that are fun to do in your head. . .
quote: "You could have waited, you could have had lunch with us."
"Yes, and you could dump your irrational girlfriend and we could have lunch anytime without worrying about 'is Gabi going to be there?'"
quote: "You could have waited, you could have had lunch with us."
"Yes, and you could tell your girlfriend that her demands that I not speak to her are unreasonable. I am, after all, your son. It would be nice to be able to see you without 'clearing' it first."
quote: "You could have waited, you could have had lunch with us."
"What is the etiquette for how long one is supposed to wait when stranded on the front porch of one's mother's house while negotiations with girlfriend are going on? An hour? Two? I think I missed that 'Miss Manners' column."
quote: Paul is one of the most nicest Hatrackers
Yeah, he is one of the most nicest Hatrackers. I just love Paul. If it didn't interfere with my Jon Boy stalking, I'd probably be stalking him. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
The way my mind thinks after KarlEd made the stalking comment... Does Gabi only have a problem with heterosexual men? (realizing that she has a problem with life in general anyway) I know it would be wrong to decieve her, but what if she thought Paul was gay? Would she be more tolerant then? Or is it all men regardless of sexual orientation?
AJ
Edit: Kayla made the stalking comment, but I thought KarlEd had which is why my mind took the particular path it did.
posted
This "five minutes" reminds me of the protocol for how long to wait your professor is late for class: Ten minutes for a junior prof, twenty for a tenured prof, or something like that.. I would say that my mother would merit at least thirty minutes. The great thing about waiting for people past the appointed time is that the longer you wait, the more guilty they feel when they show up. Imagine the look on her face if you sat on her front step for an hour before she remembered you were there. It would be worth waiting for lunch, and I can guarantee it wouldn't ever happen again.
But Paul, I think your mother does need to think about where her priorities are. You should have given her more than five minutes, but she should think twice about having a relationship with someone who indescriminately discriminates against an entire gender. It sounds like you're right about Gabi needing help, and your mother needs to step back and see it too, and get Gabi the help she needs.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
When I was eleven years old, I knifed my stepfather after he killed my dog. I never stopped talking to my mother, though.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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If you can find it in your heart to forgive your mother for this incident, I suggest you take her out to dinner just the two of you, and leave the Gabber at home to sulk.
In fact, make it a special night out. Heck, make it a tradition, and set up a time maybe once a week or month that it is just the two of you on mutual ground with no interference from her worse half.
There sounds to me a failed attempt to have a regular relationship with your mother because of her girlfriend. I suggest not letting the gabbster win and fight it every step of the way and keep your relationship with your mom a healthy one.
Play the game and play the game well.
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Yeah, don't stay mad at your mom, Paul. She's your mom.
<-------thought of that himself.
You have my sympathy, bro'. I guess the only real advice I have is to just try and think ahead to try and minimize the situations where your mom has to choose between you and her girlfriend. But I"m pretty sure you're already doing that. So...you have my sympathy and my hope that this resolves itself in short order for you such that everyone can be happy.
They are right about one thing - she did call you. Relatively quickly.
I had to find a different way to contact my dad. My preferred method is e-mail, because I'm better at print and I can skip over the pejorative paragraphs, but that simply wasn't going to work. The only email address that reaches him is my stepmoms - whom I like very much, but don't like the idea of her vetting all communication with my dad. So... the most recent followups to the latest blowup confrontations have been on the phone. I call him from work at his work, and he calls me from his cell phone at my work. That puts restrictions on topics, but that's probably a good thing. The point of that is that it is better than it was, and it was a workaround so I don't feel like I can only talk to my dad at my stepmother's largess.
((((Paul)))) I hope things become okay.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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