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During the course of my life I've come to accept the sad truth that I am simply not a hardware guy. I'm not exactly computer illiterate, and I think my B.S. degree in computer science is enough proof of that, but I'm definitely not a "computer nerd". I came into this major not knowing a damn thing about computers, and was able to excel at computer science not because I'm a computer guy, but because I can excel at anything I put my mind to, and because I have a natural aptitude for logic and problem solving. So while I learned how to be one of (if not the) best programmers at my school, I know very little about hardware beyond theory. Therefore, I ask the computer people of GreNME and Hatrack to help me build one to suit my needs and budget.
First off I should list my requirements. Primarily this PC is going to be used as a workstation to work at home and program on, but also as a gaming platform. I'd like to get the best deal I can, while still being able to play new PC games as they come out without a problem.
Operating System: I will be formatting my PC to boot both in Windows XP and Linux. The Windows is for games, and the Linux is for programming. There's not really any debate here since Windows sucks for programming, and Linux sucks for games . I'm not sure exactly how to make the partition, but I'm sure I can do it.
CPU: Here is somewhere I need advice. I'd like to go with something in the "sweet spot" economically, but the extra power of a top of the line processor would be nice for the programs I write. I was thinking of either getting a hyper threaded Intel chip, or else get a dual Athlon set-up. The hyper threading or dual CPU's are a must to test multi-threaded programs, which is pretty much everything I code. It's a tough decision though. How compatible are the Xeon's for things like video cards? How hard is it to set up a dual CPU?
Hardrive: I was thinking of getting a 120GB hardrive. They are pretty inexpensive, and if I fill it up I get always get another one.
RAM: One or two 512MB modules. I'm thinking two of them for a total of 1024. Is this overkill?
Monitor: This is the hardest thing for me to decide. What I really want is a 19" LCD. If I spend hours a day programming and playing computer games, having a nice monitor will make it a much more pleasant experience. I wonder though if I should just get a flatscreen 19" CRT, since its a difference of at least 300 bucks.
Video Card: I'm pretty much completely ignorant here. The Radeon 9800 Pro is tempting, but its very expensive. Would something like a Radeon 9100 or a GForce 4 be capable of keeping up with games like Doom 3 and Halflife 2?
Motherboard: I'm not sure what makes one mother board any better than any other. My thoughts are just to get one compatible with the processor(s) I end up going with, maybe that's middle of the road in price. Do you need a special motherboard to use a dual CPU set-up? (I'd think so)
DVD/CD drive(s): My instinct was to just get a DVD / CD-RW drive, but my friend Tom suggested getting separate drives to make burning CD's easier. Would it cost the same to do this? Oh and I'll probably get a hard-disk drive, though I'm not sure I will ever use it.
Case: I'm not sure what makes one case any better than any other, so will probably just get a standard one.
Peripherals: I already have an ergonomic keyboard, which are a must have for programmers says me . My mouse is a Logitech cordless optical, so that's about as good as you can get. I'll probably just get an average printer, since I hardly ever use them. I don't particularly need a scanner.
Other than that, where's the best place to get everything? I hear you can save a fortune online, but what sites are the best?
posted
a gig of ram is -definitely- not over kill.
personally, i'm kind of waiting to see what's going to be happening with 64 bit processors, but who knows what's going to happen with that.
i'm also kind of curious about video cards, since, hey i'm still using 2 3dfx voodoos in my current box.
Posts: 4482 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I think it's still a toss up as to how good the current set of video cards are going to run in Doom3 and HL2.
If you have about $300+ to spend, then yes, get the latest and greatest video card out there.
If you have a Fry's Electronics in your area, they've got 160gig Maxtor drives (8meg buffer) for $90 after rebate ($129 before). I've got several right now, and they work wonderful. The 3 year warranty (that most WD drives lack) is another bonus.
Overall, you should be able to build a beast of a computer for not too much. I'll send you a quick list that I created on newegg.com .
Posts: 851 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Assuming you use your computer for anything other than a regular old workstation, think of the other use as primary. Both gaming and programming require much more recent (and for the most part better) components than a workstation, considering both software and hardware. Well, the gaming assumes that you will be playing relatively recently released games and/or adding new games to your library, and the programming (from what fairly little I have experienced of it) depends quite a bit on how big your home projects will be, as well as the level you will be coding in. From most to least intensive, interpretive, compiled, and asm. The first two will of course have exceptions, as I am sure you know much better than me.
I will leave the specifics to those who are on the bleeding (or at least cutting) edge of gaming/programming. Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Please do not pirate Office XP or Photoshop, especially not with the student discounts out there. The widespread use of pirated software increases the cost for those of us who actually PAY for the products we use.
There are perfectly good alternatives to both Office XP and Photoshop out there -- I'd recommend StarOffice and Paint Shop Pro -- if you're not willing to pony up the cash (around $250, for students) to buy them legally.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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About the monitor, you might consider going with the flatscreen as opposed to the LCD unless space is an issue. The reason for this is that generally LCD's are fairly hard on the eyes. Just some food for thought.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Tom, I graduated, so until I go to grad school I'm not a student.
I do agree that Star-Office is an option, but I have it associated with Linux, does it run in Windows? (I'd want to do those sort of applications there)
I'll look into Paint Shop pro, since I admit that I don't need all the features of Photoshop.
I wonder at your logic though. There's no way in hell I can afford Photoshop, so its not like they are losing business by me not buying it legally.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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Yes, I'm starting to lean toward flat-screen due to convos with my friends over the past couple hours. It just doesn't seem worth it since the CRTs have higher resolution anyway.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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How about Adobe Elements? You can get that for under $30. Of course I have no clue what you need it for so Elements might be woefully inadequate...
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There is, as another possible replacment for Photoshop, the GIMP, it is available for both linux and Window
OpenOffice.org is the open source continuation of StarOffice 5.x, however I don't know if there have been any benificial changes made to it.
Posts: 1458 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Video card: try a Raedon 9500 or a GeForce FX 5600. the 5600 is nice 'cause you can get 256 on it, and the 9500 is nice 'cause its a lot cheaper than a 9800 and still really nice.
Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2003
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You can never have enough RAM, CPU power, or Video power (for the gaming). Memory is cheap, so I'd put as much RAM on as you can. You can get away with a slightly slower CPU if you have a lot of memory. Get the biggest, baddest video card you can afford, it will be the deciding factor for how well your games play. I love my LCD screen, and find it easier on my eyes than a phospher screen. Also, a 17" LCD screen is equivalent to a 19" phospher screen in terms of viewing area. You can get a 17" LCD for about $500. The one negative for an LCD monitor is that you can't calibrate it (if you need that for color work). Another really important piece of hardware is the mother board. The higher the speed of the mother board, the faster your games and other graphics will run (that's one reason why Macs are so much better for graphic intensive work). Also, don't cheap out on the computer case. Get at least a mid-sized tower.
I tried to put together a dual boot system for linux and Windows2000 and found it cumbersome because both OS's required the boot sector to run in drive 0. I think Partition Magic will help you with that.
Posts: 168 | Registered: Aug 2003
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It's not a matter of being able to have too much RAM, but it's a question of are you going to see any difference in performance? If you're doing lots of video editing you probably need the full gig, otherwise probably not. Unless, of course, money is no object. Then by all means, buy 2 gigs of Corsair ram and wave it under all our noses. Insofar as the video card is concerned. HL2 won't be too demanding, but as is ID's way you'll need a good video card. And by good, I pretty much mean the best there is out there. And if you're looking at the 5600, make sure you get the 5600 Ultra. You're better getting one of the high end geforce4 models than the 5600 vanilla.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: I like PaintShop Pro MUCH more than Photoshop... mine came with the animating software, so that's also much fun... just thought I'd share...
Sorry, I have to dissagree. It really depends on what you have to do with Photoshop, but PSP is like Photoshop lite. If you have to do some really serious graphical editing, then you need photoshop. However, you can download PSP from JASC as a trial to see if it will do the job for you.
Posts: 168 | Registered: Aug 2003
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unohoo-- if you install windows, then linux (most popular distros, that is), linux's boot loader will be set up to load windows as well.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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fugu13, I think that is what I did, but I must have messed up in some other way, because it didn't work the way I wanted it to, that is to come up with a menu and I get to choose which OS to boot. It worked for me with BeOS though.
Posts: 168 | Registered: Aug 2003
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If it was a while ago, linux wasn't as adept at dealing with win2k until fairly recently, so it might just have been not working yet.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Yep, fugu13, that was over a year ago that I tried it. I was just messing around in my own geeky way, playing with different OS's. Now I'm only running W2K because it's compatible with what I need for work, and the only other OS I really need to play with is Mac OS 9 and X, which I can't run on an Intel type PC.
Posts: 168 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I've got to admit that I sympathize with IndexCard. While I use Photoshop professionally, because it does some things that other programs in that range simply can't, I find myself using Paint Shop Pro for almost all my home image editing -- mainly because its interface is INFINITELY less annoying for basic editing tasks.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Exactly. WHile Photoshop may have a gajillion more tools to use, and be WAY *quotation fingers* "better" */quotation fingers*... PSP is much easier to use, and I'm not actually doing anything professional with it, so it's no big deal to me...like I said before, I like it more.
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Xavier: I spend most of my time over at Ars Technica trolling their forums but since I found this thread, I think I'll kick in my $0.02. I am a horrible CS guy (dropping the major) and a consumate hardware guy. Regarding your computer:
Operating System: It's important to note that if you're going to use a dual-processor system that you'll need to use Windows XP Professional; Home edition does not support dual processors. As for Linux 'sucking' for games...
CPU: I'm a die-hard AMD fan. Always have been. That being said, if you're going to be compiling for multithreaded apps, go Intel. I hate to say it (boy how I hate to say it) but the market is 85% Intel, so Intel is where you really need to shine, code-wise. I think an AMD multiprocessor system is easier to set up, though. Also, AMD is still the price/performance champ. One final note: games are very rarely compiled to take advantage of Multiprocessor rigs. So rarely, in fact, that I hope you aren't hoping to get some kind of performance boost (WRT Games) by having dual processors. You won't see it.
Hard Drive: I really recommend the Western Digital Special Edition series drives. They have 8MB of SDRAM as opposed to the usual 2 and the difference is noticeable. I noticed Slacker saying that Maxtor has a 3 Year warranty as opposed to Western Digital's 1 Year; to the best of my knowledge, that's true. I have to point out, however, that getting a 2 or 3 year old drive warrantied only results in getting a 2 or 3 year old drive in return, which is 2 or 3 year old technology. Just something to chew on-- most drives, in my experience, break in the first year if they're going to break at all (the IBM Deathstar being a notable exception-- Google it if you want to know more).
RAM: 1GB of RAM is definitely not too much. It's on the high end of current computing (512 is average and 256 is minimal) -- but that just means the machine will be 'current' longer.
Monitor: I'm probably just a stodgy old fart but I think a CRT still beats an LCD hands down. Especially for gaming. I'm sitting in front of a lovely aperture grill (remember that you want aperture grill, not invar or shadow mask) monitor; it's gaming performance beats the pants off an LCD. This is because none but the best LCDs suffer from 'ghosting', ie: the image doesn't erase itself quickly enough during highly animated times, like games. Again, food for thought. LCDs are easily easier on your eyes for long coding sessions, however. You want to aim for CRTs that have high refresh rates (85 Hz and above) when looking at CRTs. The higher the refresh rate, the less your eyes hurt.
Video Card: Half-Life 2 is a DirectX 9 game where Doom3 is an OpenGL game. So, in the end, you'll need a DirectX 9-compliant card that can push a lot of polygons. A good compromise on price and performance would probably be a Radeon 9600-- again, I have to point out I'm an ATi fan, so I'm probably biased.
Motherboard: The trick to selecting a motherboard is a little arcane knowledge. You need to know what chipset it uses. There's more to the subject than I can get in to, but if you spend a little time in Ars' CPU and Motherboard Technologia forum (or even ask a specific question) they'll be of help to you.
DVD/CD-RW: Having two optical drives like a CD-Burner and a DVD drive is pretty typical of most computers sold these days. I think it's important to note, though, that DVD-burning drives are getting to the point of being reasonable. I know of places where such drives can be had for $150. I intend to own one myself this Christmas .
Case: I recommend an Enlight 7237. Very nice case, very basic-looking and has all the guts you could want. One thing to note: people often spend a LOT of money on their computer only to use a poor power supply. Without getting too wordy (too late for that, huh?) I'd recommend one from Antec's line of Power Supplies. They're important. Trust me.
I recommend Newegg for all your purchases with the possible exceptions of the case and the monitor; their weight will make the cost of shipping prohibitive. Try finding a reputable local dealer for these or, failing that, CompUSA.
Hope that helps. Send me an email ifyou'd like to ask any questions. My email is theorb77 at hotmail.
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nice, orb. The only thing I wanted to point out is that Maxtor has the same special edition drives as well (I just bought 2 160gig drives last week).
The only reason that I tend to shy away from WD is because of the failure rates that I've seen with them. Granted, it wasn't anywhere near as high as with the IBM Deathstars, but I'm still a little gun shy of trusting any important data to a WD for the time being.
Also, you may want to hold off on the DVD recordable drives. The new 8x models are just coming out now (newegg has the 8x plextor drive right now), so the prices on the 4x burners are going to start coming down as well. You'll also want to make sure that your home DVD player (if you want to use the burned DVD's on it) is compatible with your burner.
That's about the only reason that I don't have a DVD writer right now. That, and I'm waiting for the home DVD players that will play Divx movies as well.
Posts: 851 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Slacker: I agree that in the past Western Digital drives have been poor quality. I just think that in the past year their quality control has risen to acceptable levels. What I've seen of Maxtor, conversely, has been a drop in QC (I think due to the fact that their name is the biggest in HDD manufacturing) such that I'm willing to recommend a WD drive over a Maxtor.
If I thought Xavier wanted a really fast system I'd tell him to skip ATA altogether and go with a SCSI RAID array (probably made out of Hitachi drives). It's just that I hate getting SCSI working.
As far as DVD burners go, well, I'm sort of an early adopter. Not so much I'll spend $1000 on a drive but enough that when they first come in to my price range I'll buy them. That means that I generally get to deal with common problems first but it also means I know the hardware pretty well before most people do. And as you can see I'm a pretty big fan of hardware.
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. I'm not sure exactly how to make the partition, but I'm sure I can do it.
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