My mom and dad were alcoholics that abused me mainly verbally and emotionally, and to some degree, physically. I never feared for my life. I don’t need sympathy or anything. On a scale of “How Terribly Did Your Parents Treat You,” I’m sure that many of the people on this board could blow me out of the water.
Anyway, now my parents have stopped getting drunk, and my mom has stopped drinking completely. Mom has begged me for forgiveness many times. I always say that I’ve forgiven her, so stop asking already! But although I’ve tried my hardest to forgive, and to some extent, forget, I can’t get over the feeling that I haven’t. What could be holding me back from this? I know that it’s something that’s necessary for my mother and me to have a relationship.
Does anyone have similar experiences? What has held you back from forgiving someone? How did you overcome it?
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Well, maybe so. I keep thinking of the Bible where they say you have to forgive someone 7times70 times. But doesn't that apply to someone who means it? Do they have to repent?
One might say mom has repented because she isn't drinking anymore, but she'll still treats me the same way, just on a less drunken scale.
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posted
I do understand that feeling. My mother and I have not had the best relationship and neither have my father and I. It was just not that "normal" parent/kid thing, even now it's strained and I can't tell them everything. Maybe it's not so much as forgiveness, it's just that it just stops being so important after a while as things do change. But it's hard to completely forgive when you look back on what people did to you and get angry all over again like your blood is full of venom.
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Yes, they do have to repent. As you cite the Bible, I'm gonna go with a Christian take on it: Even God, with His infinite mercy, can't forgive someone who isn't repentant. Forgiveness has to be received. You seem to feel that she is unrepentant. She seems to as well, since she keeps asking. That could definitely block you.
From your description, it sounds like she has repented of the drinking, but not of the way she has treated you... perhaps she needs to broaden her scope but has started on the right path...?
[ September 15, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: T. Analog Kid ]
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This might seem like a silly question, but what is she asking forgiveness for? How much of her actions is she owning? For example, is she apologizing for the drinking, but then rather than taking responsibility for the abuse, she blames it on the drinking? Or even fails to recognize it as a problem?
"I'm sorry" has two meanings. One is an apology, the other an expression of sorrow. If she's apologizing, she needs to be apologizing for something, even if that something is as nebulous as "hurting you." "I'm sorry" only means she feels some regret that whatever happened happened, but doesn't necessarily accept any responsibility for it. Which, if either, does she use?
In my life, I've found forgiveness to be a middle step on the way to restoration. Forgiveness is a recognition that the person apologized for what was done, and feels regret for having done it, and some sort of desire not to do it again. Even if he does do it again, he can still have that forgiveness from me. I usually err on the softer side -- even apologies and regret aren't always necessary for my forgiveness.
Restoration is a returning to the state of things before the forgivable action ever occurred. That's a much tougher place to arrive, but it's worth the trip. But it requires sincere repentance, and may at times also require some restitution for the wrong, depending on the situation.
To use a painful current example, I'm sure many are willing to forgive Kevin, but I believe there are also many who don't see restoration in the cards. He'll always be thought of by some as untrustworthy. Some also probably feel that since he has been unrepentant, he isn't even deserving of forgiveness, much less restoration. But I don't mean for this to become another Kevin thread.
My personal opinion is that "forgive and forget" is a stupid concept. I think it's foolish to forget. It's more important to transform the idea I have about exactly what someone did to me or why he did it than to forget it ever happened. It's kinda like Speaking for the Dead -- the actions haven't been forgotten, but the understanding has evolved to a place where forgiveness becomes possible. Restoration doesn't really relate once the person is dead (excepting afterlife, not what I'm talking about here), though, so the analogy isn't complete.
Anyway, it might be helpful for you to write down what you've forgiven her for, ask her to write down what she wants forgiveness for, and compare lists. She may feel unforgiven because you're talking about different things.
I wish you all the best in coming to reconciliation with your parents. (((PSI)))
posted
Psi, look into finding an Alanon group to connect with. This sort of behavior from alcoholics is pretty common, and to find the best way to handle it you need to connect with others who have been in exactly the same situation. It's not really about forgiveness, it's about determining your position in ending an undesirable behavior pattern. Do you want to continue to be a part of it? What can you do to stop playing the same role over and over again? Those are the sorts of things you figure out in Alanon (however you spell it...).
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I am also a bit worried that your father has given up getting drunk, but not drinking. Many people have claimed to do that and almost noone succeeds.
Basically, you were robbed, and what was stolen was destroyed and cannot be replaced. Forgetting about it only diminishes you and the struggle you fought through. Let your mother know that you can never forget without losing who you are.
But forgiveness is within you, but it takes time. There are pains you don't even realize are there. How can you forgive your mother yet for that pain?
There is also the matter of trust. Do not confuse Forgiveness and Trust. You can forgive someone without trusting them again. You have the unfortunate problem of being unable to trust your parents and she may be seeking that trust too soon. It takes time to regain it.
"I'm Sorry." "Your forgiven." Does not mean you open yourself up to be hurt again.
quote: Anyway, it might be helpful for you to write down what you've forgiven her for, ask her to write down what she wants forgiveness for, and compare lists. She may feel unforgiven because you're talking about different things.
Okay, that’s what I will do.
You guys have given me a lot to think about (therefore write about) so far. Here are some of the notes.
quote: Restoration is a returning to the state of things before the forgivable action ever occurred.
It seems like Mom wanted to be restored, but I don’t think there’s anything to restore to. As far back as I can remember, things have been pretty bad. Is it possible to form a new common ground?
quote: If you can't empathize then you can never understand or forgive. [Correct spellings are mine .]
Maybe this is true. Maybe by going to Al-Anon I can learn to empathize with my mom. I know that the feeling that I’m about to share isn’t fair to my mom, but I’ll say it anyway. It’s tough to try to empathize with someone when you feel like you were the only one that was hurt. Growing up, I could never understand why she behaved the way she did, but I always forgave her. My anger towards her never lasted out the night. What happened to that? Why can’t I go back? Was it just a childish need to love everyone? Or was I just trying to give my mom one more chance to love me correctly?
quote: What can you do to stop playing the same role over and over again?
Yes, this is what I want to do.
quote: I am also a bit worried that your father has given up getting drunk, but not drinking. Many people have claimed to do that and almost noone succeeds.
This concerns me as well. But my dad lives by himself so if he is getting drunk, he’s only hurting himself. (Not that it doesn’t matter to me if he gets hurt.) I know that he never drinks when he visits me, up to two weeks at a time. (I’d smell it a mile away.) My suspicion is that dad isn’t really an alcoholic as far as compulsion goes. I think he just likes to drink. Is that possible?
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