posted
Is it possible for a people who have lost a lot of life to a known enemy to embrace that enemy? Would we be able to embrace anyone after having lost not 3,000 peopke, but tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, by some estimates, of lives to a country? I ask this because in the process of reading riverbend, it has crossed my mind that if there is to be peace of some kind in Iraq, we will probably have to leave fairly soon. This is a 180 degree turn, by the way, of what I used to believe. I used to believe that we had better be prepared to set up shop in Iraq for at least another 20 years, to both rebuild and to keep act as a buffer and a peace keeping force between the various factions. Now I just can't see how, if the tables were turned, we would ever forgive those who killed so many of our countrymen. Look at 9/11. We 'only' lost 3,000 people and it drives many Americans to tears and rage. Consider
quote:
Have You Forgotten? September 11 was a tragedy. Not because 3,000 Americans died… but because 3,000 humans died. I was reading about the recorded telephone conversations of victims and their families on September 11. I thought it was… awful, and perfectly timed. Just when people are starting to question the results and incentives behind this occupation, they are immediately bombarded with reminders of September 11. Never mind Iraq had nothing to do with it.
I get emails constantly reminding me of the tragedy of September 11 and telling me how the “Arabs” brought all of this upon themselves. Never mind it was originally blamed on Afghanistan (who, for your information, aren’t Arabs).
I am constantly reminded of the 3,000 Americans who died that day… and asked to put behind me the 8,000 worthless Iraqis we lost to missiles, tanks and guns.
People marvel that we’re not out in the streets, decking the monstrous, khaki tanks with roses and jasmine. They wonder why we don’t crown the hard, ugly helmets of the troops with wreaths of laurel. They question why we mourn our dead instead of gratefully offering them as sacrifices to the Gods of Democracy and Liberty. They wonder why we’re bitter.
But, I *haven’t* forgotten…
I remember February 13, 1991. I remember the missiles dropped on Al-Amriyah shelter- a civilian bomb shelter in a populated, residential area in Baghdad. Bombs so sophisticated, that the first one drilled through to the heart of the shelter and the second one exploded inside. The shelter was full of women and children- boys over the age of 15 weren’t allowed. I remember watching images of horrified people clinging to the fence circling the shelter, crying, screaming, begging to know what had happened to a daughter, a mother, a son, a family that had been seeking protection within the shelter’s walls.
I remember watching them drag out bodies so charred, you couldn’t tell they were human. I remember frantic people, running from corpse to corpse, trying to identify a loved-one… I remember seeing Iraqi aid workers, cleaning out the shelter, fainting with the unbearable scenes inside. I remember the whole area reeked with the smell of burnt flesh for weeks and weeks after.
I remember visiting the shelter, years later, to pay my respects to the 400+ people who died a horrible death during the small hours of the morning and seeing the ghostly outlines of humans plastered on the walls and ceilings.
I remember a family friend who lost his wife, his five-year-old daughter, his two-year-old son and his mind on February 13.
I remember the day the Pentagon, after making various excuses, claimed it had been a ‘mistake’.
I remember 13 years of sanctions, backed firmly by the US and UK, in the name of WMD nobody ever found. Sanctions so rigid, we had basic necessities, like medicine, on waiting lists for months and months, before they were refused. I remember chemicals like chlorine, necessary for water purification, being scrutinized and delayed at the expense of millions of people.
I remember having to ask aid workers, and visiting activists, to ‘please bring a book’ because publishing companies refused to sell scientific books and journals to Iraq. I remember having to ‘share’ books with other students in college, in an attempt to make the most of the limited resources.
I remember wasted, little bodies in huge hospital beds- dying of hunger and of disease; diseases that could easily be treated with medications that were ‘forbidden’. I remember parents with drawn faces peering anxiously into doctors’ eyes, searching for a miracle.
I remember the depleted uranium. How many have heard of depleted uranium? Those are household words to Iraqi people. The depleted uranium weapons used in 1991 (and possibly this time too) have resulted in a damaged environment and an astronomical rise in the cancer rate in Iraq. I remember seeing babies born with a single eye, 3 legs or no face- a result of DU poisoning.
I remember dozens of dead in the ‘no fly zones’, bombed by British and American planes claiming to ‘protect’ the north and south of Iraq. I remember the mother, living on the outskirts of Mosul, who lost her husband and 5 kids when an American plane bombed the father and his sons in the middle of a field of peaceful, grazing sheep.
And we are to believe that this is all being done for the sake of the people.
“Have you forgotten how it felt that day To see your homeland under fire And her people blown away?”
No… we haven’t forgotten- the tanks are still here to remind us.
A friend of E.’s, who lives in Amiriyah, was telling us about an American soldier he had been talking to in the area. E’s friend pointed to the shelter and told him of the atrocity committed in 1991. The soldier turned with the words, “Don’t blame me- I was only 9!” And I was only 11.
American long-term memory is exclusive to American traumas. The rest of the world should simply ‘put the past behind’, ‘move forward’, ‘be pragmatic’ and ‘get over it’.
Someone asked me whether it was true that the ‘Iraqi people were dancing in the streets of Baghdad’ when the World Trade Center fell. Of course it’s not true. I was watching the tv screen in disbelief- looking at the reactions of the horrified people. I wasn’t dancing because the terrified faces on the screen, could have been the same faces in front of the Amiriyah shelter on February 13… it’s strange how horror obliterates ethnic differences- all faces look the same when they are witnessing the death of loved ones.
I think it's imperative that Bush do whatever it takes to replace Americans with troops from other countries, not because our lives are any more valuable than those lives of people from other countries, but because I can't see how the presence of American troops will be anything but an open wound to many Iraqis. I think we should bankroll a huge part of those foreign troops as penance for what we did to Iraq in the interests of national and international security.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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That saying, I think, could be taken much more seriously by many.
Think about Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki... travesty in arguably the most just war, ever. It's never good. Never.
Posts: 2112 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Ever heard the song that goes.....War, huh, yeah, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!....
Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Why was the word "mistake" in quotes? Is the author trying to say that we intentionally bombed a shelter filled with women and children? What would that accomplish? The United States wasn't using terrorist tactics. Whatever awful things you might imagine about America, it served no purpose whatsoever for us to terrify and alienate a population that (at the time) we were asking for support. Our war was always with the regime, not with the common people.
Now, it's a whole other issue whether or not it was worth unleashing the hazards and unavoidably terrible consequences of war on the people of Iraq in order to put a stop to their regime's actions. When it was over the subjugation and pillaging of Kuwait, most of us were behind it. Today, many of us are not. We over here in America do need to be realistic about the fact that "war is hell". We must force ourselves to face the fact that when we start a war with another country, that means that innocent lives WILL be ended or ruined, no matter what we do to minimize such things.
It is far too easy to put that fact out of our minds, and pretend that war is nothing more than a TV show. When we don't see the death and horrors of war, it is far too easy to forget the suffering that it involves.
At the same time, however, the fact that "war is hell" does NOT mean that it is never worth the cost. But when we make such decisions, we must keep ourselves aware of the true cost, and be sure we are not trading our fellow humans' lives away for nothing.
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
You know how people were asking me why I don't think we should have run in and unilaterally attacked Iraq, and to some extent, Afghanistan? Why I have a fundamental belief against the killing of other human beings?
posted
Rat and TAK, I am not saying the war shouldn't have been fought.
quote: At the same time, however, the fact that "war is hell" does NOT mean that it is never worth the cost. But when we make such decisions, we must keep ourselves aware of the true cost, and be sure we are not trading our fellow humans' lives away for nothing.
I agree with this, Geoff. I basically agree with your post. As the war began, I posted pictures of regular Iraqis at work and at play because I think we need to stay focused on the human beings in Iraq and not the war in Iraq. This post is an extention of that.
As far as the word 'mistake', I imagine that when she put 'mistake' in quotes, that it could mean that:
*the pilot (if it came from a plane. substitute whoever finally pressed the button, if not.) meant to fire the missle at that bunker, but didn't know that it had women and children. So, the firing was deliberate, the target was known, it's just the occupants were not.
*the word mistake is not really the appropriate the sole appropriate word to use when 400 innocent people die. Yes, technically it's correct. However, something more is called for. If the pentagon or whoever just said "Mistake!" then clearly that is small consolation to the dead and the relatives of the dead.
*She doesn't believe that the military is as benevolent, or compassionate, as you believe, rat. If you read her blog, it becomes apparent that the dominant attitude of many of the soldiers over there is that Iraqis don't matter. In the post that I put up here, she showed how she felt that many, many Iraqis had died because of conditions, or weapons, that we imposed on them or used on them. Again, consider 9/11. It would be a pretty normal reaction to hate those who have killed so many people that you know and to dehumanize them with your hate. Understandable, isn't it? She may very well believe that we killed those women and children and just didn't care. (Edit: In fact, this is the point of my post. We've been behind so much of the Iraqis suffering, that they won't trust for a long time, if ever.)
My point in making this thread wasn't to say that war is hell, so we need to go home. The point is that war is hell, we caused this particular hell, and so there is going to be a lot of bad feeling towards us, just like there was, and is, a lot of bad feeling towards muslims and/or islamicists for 9/11. If we are replaced by troops from other countries (UN troops), this makes it easier for Iraqis to focus on rebuilding the country and getting along. As far as that goes, I'm not even sure that once we leave the Iraqis will ever settle down even in the face of UN troops. It may be that as soon as the infrastructure is rebuilt that everyone should leave and cross their fingers that a civil war doesn't erupt.
Parenthetically, by the way, I want to point out one thing she mentioned in the blog whose full ramifications I hadn't really thought about, which is that we are now ensconced in Sadaam's palaces. Think about those palaces and how that must appear to the Iraqis in their suffering. Here's the new boss. Same as the old boss.
posted
Never mind that Saddam Hussein invaded one country with the intent of invading another. Never mind the thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of Kurds and other Iraqis murdered by Saddam or the thousands more on top of that who starved because someone liked paleaces more than feeding people.
It was terrible that so many died from nuclear explosions in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it would be more terrible if we lost the war, or a million American soldiers died trying to invade a country possibly as difficult as Vietnam, or the fact that millions of Japanese would have died from further conventional bombing or the house to house fighting during which every civilian able to hold a pitchfork would have participated in.
The point is bad things happen in war, but sometimes worse things happen when we avoid war are necessary parts of it.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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