posted
I have recently met someone online that I like quite a bit, and when I tell people about him their response is usually, "How do you know he's not some forty-year-old man?" I'm 19, by the way. This has led me to wonder, what's so bad about forty-year-old men? I realize that that's a bit old to be a romantic interest for me, but all men will be, are, or have been forty. It doesn't seem fair to men in general. Now if they asked if he were a stalker, a pornographer, a pedophile, or a mass murderer I would understand, but forty-year-old men aren't evil as a matter of course.
On a more serious note, I'm reasonably sure that this guy is an eighteen-year-old freshman at BYU. I met him on the VBS forum of the rack when he IM'd me about my launch. I've talked to him and people he claims are his parents on the phone and online. I've planned a trip at New Year's to visit him and his family.
In the past I've often dismissed internet relationships as impossible and unrealistic. I've noticed that there's a topic on this forum listing people who are have been proven 'real' while the rest of us are just complex algorithms invented in cyberspace, until proven otherwise by witnesses.
So as a broad question to give a point to my pointless thread; how do you feel about online romances? If you were single would you consider it? How much do you trust people you meet online and does matter where online you meet them?
Posts: 349 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Forty is incredibly old. It's very close to death.
You will want to seek out someone young, virile and strapping to get you with child and to survive disease and famine.
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posted
I wouldn't know about romance online, but I first met my soulmate in Napster's chat room. From those days so long ago, we've progressed to sending letters to each other that average around at least ninety pages apiece -- full of crude humor and dick jokes. We still have a running joke from our first conversation in the chat room involving the typo "cabada" -- for a while, we used to work it into the salutations of our letters (i.e. "are you caBADanough to save President Nixon?"). Sean's my, sigh, true love...
So, yeah, I'd say it could happen. I know I'd be all over Sean if he had breasts. As it is, I have difficulty reminding myself I'm straight when I read his letters. Part of the reason I'm planning a move up to NYC come July or August is so I can go out clubbing and not getting laid with him. I've even had a few puppy loves online -- so far, though, most have fizzled out, faded away, or even ended in slight heartbreak. Thankfully, I'm still juggling around Tom Davidson and Moose, and I think I'll decide between one or the other eventually. I just can't decide which is better in bed.
Which brings me to a central point in the argument against online romance. So much of every romance is sexual; without being able to hold her, look into her eyes, or do the naughty shizzle wizzle, it's damn near impossible to determine how chemically right you are for someone.
Don't get engaged without spending at least a year or two living together. I promise you, people can vary drastically between their Internet persona and Meatspace persona. Take me for example -- nobody here would even begin to guess that far from being the sexy Mexican we all know and love, I'm actually a forty-year-old man seducing a nineteen year old in Pennsylvania by posing as an eighteen-year-old freshman at BYU.
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posted
Co-Eds in general should all date men in their thirties and forties. Clearly, because men mature so slowly and women so quickly, this is best for all parties concerned.
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quote:Co-Eds in general should all date men in their thirties and forties. Clearly, because men mature so slowly and women so quickly, this is best for all parties concerned.
Stormy says, "Oh, and bring Cheetos!"
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posted
I can barely maintain psychological parity with my husband who is my same exact age. If someone is a manipulative or authoritarian puppetmaster, it doesn't really matter how old they are. I guess. But maybe it's me that's a wimp. Anyway, my gut reaction is that huge age gaps are not a good idea.
My aunt was married and had three kids with a guy, and as they were getting on toward retirement, he one day says "Surprise, I'm 8 years older than I told you (15 rather than 7) and I want to start getting my social security now." They wound up getting divorced for various reasons, but I'm sure the deception didn't help.
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posted
Christy and I met online, but it would be inaccurate to say that we had an "online relationship." My gut feeling, based on observations over the last few years, is that any relationship which does not progress to real-world interaction very quickly winds up spiralling into some weird cyber-relationship, which proceeds at six times the normal pace of a "real" relationship, almost always flirts with infidelity, and extracts declarations of love in a matter of days -- shortly after the first cybersex.
IMO, "online relationships" tend to be between desperate, lonely people who are looking for attention and emotional connections with ANYONE, and are drawn to exactly those people who best know how to make themselves sound good in writing.
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posted
There can be good, healthy relationships between people of disparate ages.
Unfortunately, when relationships involve inexperienced young women, there's a certain type of insecure older man with power issues who may fell he's just hit the motherlode.
It's just ripe for exploitation, but not necessarily exploitative.
Beware, though, of this: "You are different, there is nobody else like you in the world. You are special." When said by an equal (not in age, but in strength and experience), it is loving pillow talk. When said by someone with power issues to someone in less control of their own life, it means, "Sucker."
[Edit: By the way, I am smitten with a certain dashing 49-yr-old man. ]
posted
I agree with CT that relationships between people of very different ages are ripe for exploitation, but that such exploitation isn't a foregone conclusion. A friend of mine, when he was 25, got involved with a classmate of mine who was in her mid 50s. The relationship was purely sexual, and both of them went into it feeling the same way. After the novelty of the situation wore off, the relationship ended. They both got exactly what they were after out of their time together, and were very up front about it.
My parents are another example of a successful relationship in which the people involved are of very different ages, and were in very different points in their lives when their relationship began. They're 12 years apart, and my dad was my mom's high school English teacher during her freshman year in school. At the time, they hated each other, and my mother apparently dedicated herself to making my father look like a fool in class, spending all sorts of time researching the subjects that were going to be covered so that she could ask questions that he'd be unable to answer. I'm not sure how they eventaully came around, but by her senior year she and her friends were hanging out in his room after school. Apparently she was interested in him at this point, but he says he had no idea. At the end of that school year he took a job in another town, and she happened to go on to college in that same town. She feigned trouble with Joyce and asked him to help her out, and the rest was history.
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posted
Personally, I have nothing against 40-year-old men (probably because I'm 42).
I've had a couple of on-line correspondences with men of interest, but usually when I got around to meeting them in person, it was either 1) no chemistry there, or 2) they were real losers (by that I mean, like no job, very dependent type guys needing a momma more than a relationship.)
But I have nothing against meeting someone on-line. In fact, it gives you a little time to kind of communicate more and learn more about them BEFORE any physical or appearance aspects are involved.
In your case, Audeo, I guess people say that about 40-year-old men preying on a 19 year old because there is no way you can tell, on-line, that he IS NOT "a stalker, a pornographer, a pedophile, or a mass murderer" You won't know that until after you've met him. Therein lies the danger.
Farmgirl (who thinks nothing of age difference in a relationship. It is much more important to me to have an intellectual equal instead of an age equal)
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posted
I don't see much difference between online and real life relationships. Obviously if you like each other enough you are going to progress the relationship to phone conversations, and then arrange ways to visit, and if things work out with all that, you will start to plan your lives around each other.
I think healthy people make healthy relationships. These can be supported in whatever medium is available for contact.
As for people lying online, it can sometimes be a problem, I suppose. But being lied to in real life can as well. When you begin to know someone well, from phone conversations, from long time communication, then their story either hangs together or it doesn't. Same as in real life.
Parents always seem to be excessively paranoid about online people. My mother calls my online friends "imaginary", (except for the ones she has met in real life, who suddenly thereby gain reality. ) (By the way, I'm 45 and my mom is 73.) I've met a handful (around 10) of my online friends in real life now, and in no case were there any surprises. They were all the same people I knew. It didn't even seem like meeting someone after the first 15 seconds. It was just like seeing them again, the person I already knew well.
You don't have to be suspicious to be alert to clues that a person isn't telling you things. Pay attention to the things that are left out. This applies to real life friendships as well as online ones. In the absence of clues to the contrary, I think most everyone tends to take people at face value. It's not really much easier to lie online than in real life. At least nor for any extended period of time. And here at hatrack, we all know each other's shoe sizes, even, <laughs> so you know that's not a problem.
Of the people I know who have found their soulmates online, I think in every case they found someone better suited to them (or just plain better) than the people they had been going out with in real life. I do think the internet is a good place to look for a bf or gf, because the pool of available candidates is so much larger. I actually think it's going to revolutionize human society, in fact. Just wait til all these double hatracker gened kids grow up! Wow!
[ October 28, 2003, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
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posted
What claudiaterese said about 40 year old men...
But I'll say it a bit stronger. A 40 year old man who is interested in a 19 year old girl for anything other then oggling IS NOT MENTALLY HEALTHY.
As far as online relationships go, be careful.
I met a girl online when I was 19, and we ended up meeting about 18 months later. We had a relationship for about nine months after that, and it was fairly rocky. However, I can only attribute some of that to having met online. Other aspects were because, well, it was a rocky relationship The biggest danger, I think, is in coming across differently online then IRL.
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posted
I don't know Paul. You met me three days after my 40th birthday and we had had an online relationship for almost 2-1/2 years. Was I a disappointment to you.
posted
I have to admit that I find the whole "older man" thing more than a little creepy; I'm unnerved by the thought that a teenage girl might find some guy a decade or so shy of Depends-wear attractive, and I'm kind of disgusted by the thought that this same guy might even consider such a girl a peer for the purposes of a relationship.
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posted
I have to agree with you Tom. Somehow though the thought of a twenty year old woman with a 40 year old man seems far more perverse than a 30 year old woman with a 50 year old man.
Likewise, I reel at the idea of a 15 year old girl dating a 20 year old guy, but have no problems with a 25 year old woman marrying a 30 year old.
It is more than a simple matter of difference in age. It's a matter of differences in maturity.
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posted
I'm 45. And I can say that young women (in their teens) would have to be incredibly deep and mature to appeal to man like me.
And frankly, I'd be worried about having a relationship with one so young, even if she was deep and mature, because of the following reasons:
1) I am more than double her age and probably heading into the time of life where I get slower and emit a lot more noises than any human should who is trying to be attractive to others.
2) She would almost certainly be giving up some important life experiences by hitching up with someone as old as I am. For example, the chances of starry-eyed romantic love are low coming from someone in their 40's who has actually lived those years to the fullest. It might be replaced by something more deep and permanent, but starry-eyed love is an important thing for a 'young adult' to experience, it seems to me.
3) I would look at this young lady and wonder a few things about her love for me. Why did she need someone so much older? Is her home life kind of a mess? Am I a father figure to her? (or rather a grand-father figure?) Is she maybe looking for financial stability in lieu of working towards her own future? What gives?
In other words, I would have this nagging doubt and some serious trust issues.
4) For my part, I would wonder about my own motivations as CT pointed out. Am I turning into one of those weird controlling men who can only find a suitable spouse by preying on the young and insecure? Am I one step away from ordering a bride from some Eastern country and making her do my laundry and serve me beer while I watch sports and shout insults at the TV?
Creepy!
5) Also, how much of my choice was predicated on shallowness or pure ego? I mean, if I can attract a young cute "girl" now that I'm 45, is that some sort of ego boost to make up for being divorced? Am I latching onto her because it makes feel good to be seen with someone so young and attractive?
Do I define myself by the women I can attract?
See how sad and tragic this kind of thing can become for both parties? I'm not even considering what friends would say, or what society thinks. It's a tough nut to crack just thinking about the two people and their motivation for being in the relationship. Wouldn't one expect those motivations to change over time?
I mean, think about a 45 year old man attracted to much younger women. Would he continually seek to surround himself with 19 year olds? Dumping each one in succession as she aged out of his ideal target range? And assuming he was really IN LOVE, wouldn't the young woman, as she gained in knowledge and self-assurance, see her motivating factors change? Who is EVER the same person they were at 19 when they hit 30?
Would I expect it to last? I mean, in 15 years I'd be 60 and she'd be 34. She'd be hitting 40 (which in many ways is a sort of prime in terms of power and control for a woman) as I was ready for retirement.
So...the bottom line is that I think these kinds of relationships are just tougher than other relationships. I don't say it can't happen and be wonderful. I know a couple who are very happy together and have a gap of 25 years in their ages. Unfortunately, he's dying now and it is very sad, but that can happen even if your spouse is your same age.
I'm rambling...I guess the deal is that I don't trust older men who seek out teens as partners. It seems to me that the couple is setting themselves up for a lot of trouble. And marriage is hard enough without these extra handicaps.
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posted
Even relatively small age differences can spell trouble down the road, so I shudder to think of the problems that could arise with the gap between 40 and 19. When my sister was 17 or 18, she began dating a 13-year-old. Strange as it sounds, they seem to have been very much in love, and they stayed that way for five years. Then they finally got into an argument big enough to permanently break them up.
Okay...this wasn't exactly the situation people here had in mind...I'll shut up.
Posts: 1041 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Well I didn't have any sort of plan for topic, but thank you for the responses. I agree that a relationship between a forty-year-old and a nineteen-year-old would not work out. To begin with my own father is only forty-one and it is just disturbing to consider dating someone that is the same age as him. I was merely impressed that of the gamut of potential flaws of someone I may date, the one that seems to be the biggest concern is the fact that he may be twice my age, and the implication that all men of that age would be by default stalkers, pornographers, pedophiles, or mass murderers.
It's an excellent point about internet relationships progressing much faster than real ones, probably because people feel freer in expressing themselves online. This can lead to a greater feeling of emotional intimacy. I'm waiting to see how we interact in person before I make a decision on internet relationships, but it seems that there are remarkable paralells with any other long distance relationship, which are also notably more difficult but not impossible.
Posts: 349 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:I was merely impressed that of the gamut of potential flaws of someone I may date, the one that seems to be the biggest concern is the fact that he may be twice my age, and the implication that all men of that age would be by default stalkers, pornographers, pedophiles, or mass murderers.
More that all men of that age who are seeking out 19-yr-old women (via the internet or elsewise) would be much more likely to have serious interpersonal issues. A man of that age, likely with responsibilities, experience, and other opportunities, should have better things to do. At least, more productive and healthy.
it's not a knock on nineteen-yr olds, regardless. It's just a red flag. But I'm sure you and your young man will be fine, Audeo.
quote:Somehow though the thought of a twenty year old woman with a 40 year old man seems far more perverse than a 30 year old woman with a 50 year old man.
Er ... how perverse would you find a 33-yr old woman with a 49-yr old man? Just hypothetically, of course.
I had parents that married when she was 35 and he was 55. I'm edging up there with my sweetie, but we are immensely well suited to one another. Ten years ago, though, we'd have been light years apart.
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quote: It seems that there are remarkable paralells with any other long distance relationship, which are also notably more difficult but not impossible.
Notably more difficult, eh? I don't think it could have been any easier unless our parents had arranged it, dear. Okay, sorry for making fun. I know what you mean.
Braden
P.S. Yeah, I'm the aforementioned man. Don't let that limit the objectivity of this thread, though; I'm quite enjoying it, and eh, the words of caution are probably good for younger Boarders to hear.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I think people's ages seem to go by spirits rather than by chronological time on earth. Some people are world-weary as five year olds, and then forty years later they are world-weary forty five year olds. Others are wide-eyed with wonder lifelong. Richard Feynman is someone who was young, even childlike, all his life, for instance.
A friend of mine who is 31 has always seemed about 10,000 to me. He thinks of himself and refers to himself as old. I wonder if I will ever get old like him? I expect I never will. If that were going to happen, it would have done by now, I think.
Ages don't really go by years, that I've seen. They do go more by spirits. When we were in elementary school, ages seemed impenetrable barriers. We rarely had friends even so much as a year apart in age. Why? In our neighborhood as children we certainly did. The differences between one person and the next are far more vast than those between one person, and that same person 20 years later, it seems to me.
My niece is now 17 and I've known her since she was one day old and she is the same person. She still feels pain more acutely than anyone else. She still is shy and quiet, values her belongings, and is unsurpassed in the art of negotiating a deal, as she has been from her earliest days.
My other niece is 14 now and she's had the knack of command or leadership since she was at least 2 months old or before. We've always all jumped to do what she said, because the universe in which anything else happens is just inconceivable somehow. I'm not sure how that works. But she's like that. I'm sure when she's 90 she will be the same.
I strongly disagree with the idea that people of very different ages should not be close friends or spouses. There are too many happy counterexamples to whom one can point. I've always made close friends with people of all ages with whom I come into contact.
One of my best buddies is in her 80s. She travels all over the world and makes friends wherever she goes. She writes and teaches literature classes and is just a very cool person.
At the other end, I tend to make dear friends among those who are literally still in diapers. At my last ward, the 10 year old girls in my achievement day class were the ones with whom I bonded the most. At this ward I'm making my best friends among the 2-3 years olds. What's funny is that they always grow up. When they do they are no more or less interesting and complete as human beings than they were. I have friends now in their 20s with whom I have been friends since they were babies. They are the same people they were. The same people I loved. I have a friend who is now 58 with whom I've been close since she was around 40.
We're all children compared to God. He loves us in every way. Our immaturity compared to him doesn't stop him. He appreciates who we are. It's just odd to me to think we should do any differently.
I've known lots of old people and, like the Little Prince, I'm not at all sure they necessarily have more understanding of life than those with fewer years.
Do people make friends with people because they are a certain age? If so does that mean they are going to drop them when they're no longer that age? It's crazy! People are interesting and dear and wonderful to know when they are ALL the ages.
Somehow lots of people seem to have this age prejudice, thinking age is such an important thing. But I have near total age indifference. I don't see age as mattering much at all. What matters is who you are.
[ October 29, 2003, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
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I feel much the same as you do about friendships with people of widely varying ages. It seems healthy to me to have strong, loving, respectful relationships with people from all sorts of backgrounds -- nothing else helps you think about things from different perspectives as thoroughly as this.
But I'm finding that my creepometer tends to start signalling when the great disparity in age is part of a romantic relationship. I don't think it's inevitably bad, but I've seen it work out in unhealthy ways more often than not, especially when it spans the years of establishing independence. Does this kick off any radar of potentially raised concern for you, or does it feel not much different from friendships?
(Mind you, though, I have a delighted appreciation for Harold and Maude. If you haven't seen it, I think you'd like it. If you have seen it, you will know what I mean, and I expect you have connected with it too. )
posted
Interesting post, AK. I always did seem to make friends with adults when I was five or so.
Of course, nowadays I feel old and weary all the time and I'm not even 28 yet for almost another two months. But I think that has something to do with my school problems. Maybe. Or not. *not sure*
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posted
Yes, I enjoyed H & M too, though it was meant to be fun and glib, I think, and not true.
I feel like there can be healthy and unhealthy relationships between people regardless of age. Obviously people who are too young to be making lifelong decisions shouldn't. How old is old enough to make lifelong decisions varies from one person to the next, though. And really I think until you've been married, or had children, or done any of those lifelong commitment things, you don't really know whether you were old enough, do you? I think perhaps everyone is too young until they just have to deal with all that life brings, and that is how they become not too young anymore.
I don't get the creepometer reading that you do about the different ages thing. That's what I'm saying, I guess. To me it just depends on the people involved. People who are the same age can set off my creepometer as strongly or moreso than people of different ages. Each case must be looked at individually, I think. Each relationship.
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quote:And really I think until you've been married, or had children, or done any of those lifelong commitment things, you don't really know whether you were old enough, do you? I think perhaps everyone is too young until they just have to deal with all that life brings, and that is how they become not too young anymore.
Quite. Probably one of the most angsty stimuli for me (and my friends) was realizing that there was no official reference book to tell you when you were ready for something.
quote:I don't get the creepometer reading that you do about the different ages thing. That's what I'm saying, I guess.
I wonder if my bias is so strong because of past experience. Both I and a few of my friends were prey to the "you're different" approach. I remember being flattered, secretly because I agreed with the sentiment so much. However, those guys creeped me out for other reasons. And when I found out that they were using the same lines on other young women, I cringed.
The memory of my own relief at finally being acknowledged as special (by, as it turned out, a cad) still makes me burn with mortification. I think what hurt most was when I realized how common a line it is in certain circles. And, really, how ready a certain sort of person is to crave hearing it.
quote:People who are the same age can set off my creepometer as strongly or moreso than people of different ages. Each case must be looked at individually, I think. Each relationship.
I agree. But my warning antennae go up more in some cases. It's good to know about that prejudice, I guess. Maybe I can mitigate that knee-jerk response.
posted
(By the way, Anne Kate, I think the first quote from you above is marvelous. You are spot on with that one. We really become old enough by doing, in some ways -- it's like a forging, neh?)
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posted
It might just be some faculty that I'm lacking, CT, that you have. I am certainly atypical in my interactions with people. I flunked the facial expressions test and was way above average on the (extremely scientific) Time magazine Asperger's continuum, as you know. So maybe my creepometer is faulty in some way. <laughs>
But I just see, for instance, my baby brother whose wife is 10 years his senior, and how healthy their relationship is and how perfect they are for each other. Or Dr. George's wife, who is like 15 years his junior, and they seem to make the greatest team. I didn't know her before she married him, but I KNOW that he's much healthier and happier and all around better off with her than he was before.
To everyone who is in love, the other person is completely singular and unique in all of human history. What's amazing is that they were even alive in the same historical era as you! And then to think that you actually met them! It's just a miracle, all of that! So then to ask that they also be born within a couple of years of you either way, isn't that asking a little too much? Would you turn your back on perfection and say it fell short for such a minor reason as that? Would you look such a gift horse in the mouth? I would not.
[ October 29, 2003, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
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quote:Both I and a few of my friends were prey to the "you're different" approach. I remember being flattered, secretly because I agreed with the sentiment so much. However, those guys creeped me out for other reasons. And when I found out that they were using the same lines on other young women, I cringed.
Amen.
*underlines "CT" on list of romantic advisors*
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posted
"Don't let that limit the objectivity of this thread, though; I'm quite enjoying it, and eh, the words of caution are probably good for younger Boarders to hear."
If you're the guy referenced in the first post, aren't YOU one of our younger 'boarders?'
posted
Of the relationships I've seen between older men and younger women, several have worked out beautifully... but for every one of those, there are about 5 that end in absolute disaster, and in every case, its the young woman who gets the short end of the break-up... and usually because of sexual misuse. I don't say abuse, because its not.... One of my friends dated a man 9 years older then she was, at a time when she planned on remaining a virgin til marriage. She dated this guy for two months or so, and then slept with him... after having sex with her 3 times, the guy dumped her by the wayside. She consented, it wasn't sexual abuse, but he was obviously in the relationship for sex. He managed to convince her to sleep with him, she did, and he had what he wanted, so he left. Sexual misuse.
I've seen that dozens of times with young women and older men. People who sacrifice their sexual ideals in order to satisfy an "experienced" man who claims to love these girls, but more often then not, aren't in love, but in lust.
Now, there ARE situations where this works. One of my friend's father is 75, while his mother is in her mid 50's. It CAN work.
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posted
It CAN work. Michael's parents have a twenty-something year difference - he's the middle child of his father's second family. They have a great marriage. It's harder now because his dad's in his eighties, but still. Worked out well - love of each other's lives and so on. I haven't seen many cases where it didn't work, but then, I haven't had any peers marry or even really date a much older man.
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posted
Sadly, I've known many. In high school in particular, there's something that floats through a certain sort of female mind that makes it seem "cool" to date a guy in his mid-20's, when most high school girls really can't handle a guy who's already done with college. The life experiences, expectations out of relationships, and attitudes towards sexuality are all drastically different.
Not to mention, there's something of the pedophile in any man in his mid 20's who would date a girl in high school. I probably knew 20 or 30 girls in high school who, at one time or another, dated a guy at least 4 years older then they were, and without exception, they ended up with the girl getting literally and figuratively screwed.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I would venture to say that the key to this argument is this: every situation is different. People are different.
I don't think you can say "internet romance is good/bad." There are way too many variables. Would any of you feel comfortable starting a relationship with someone you met in a random chatroom where you've only talked about shallow issues? I think we would all say this is very different than meeting a fellow jatraquero/a that you've known on an intellectutal level for months or years. On the same argument - how many people have no problem jumping into a relationship with someone they've met "in real life" after a night of clubbing or a blind date? How is this anymore foolish than a foolish internet attatchement?
I'm grateful for the people I've come to know and love through internet acquaintances. I'm glad i've had a chance to meet some of them in person, and I'm excited to meet more of them. (in 16 days! ) And I'm foolishly optimistic enough (in a very good way) to believe you can love someone before you know them personally.
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posted
I think the key thing with the online relationships is coming off the same online as you would in person. I know that in person I'm pretty introverted but I still try to be nice and friendly to everyone. It's the same way on the forums or in IM. Mostly I watch and listen and talk with just a few people, but every now and then I'll jump in along with the rest of the group or post something. And, when I do, I'm really really chatty or end up just listening for a long time.
As for online romantic relationships... Fox and I have known each other for nearly two years now. We didn't talk much at all for the first few months or so and then... well, I'm not really sure how it happened but we got into this huge debate once and just started talking more and more after that. He's my best friend. 'Has been for almost half a year longer than he's been my boyfriend, etc.. Sure, I've got my girl-friends and "my guys" and a group or two of great friends and my best girl (she moved to Ohio ), but none so close as Paul. It goes beyond online too. From the phone calls to the letters... just the everyday thinking about someone and making an effort to be there.
Ultimately, it's true. I have no idea if we really "click" in person. But that's something neither he or I can help at the moment and so life goes on. We'll see what happens in four months when he comes home. In the meantime, I just love him. I'm not asking if it's right and I'm not asking if it's wrong. It just is.
And as for all the "experience" I'm "missing out" on because he's 20 and I'm 17... I really don't care. Because I don't feel like I'm missing anything. For one, I'm not the "happy go lucky" type. Two, I spend WAY too much time worrying about consequences and the morality of things. I don't sleep around (it's a concept called "waiting for marriage" and something I don't think most of my peers have heard of), I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't take illegal drugs... If I wanted, I could turn around and call everything off now. Say I just wanted to "live" that sweet-16 life that everyone seems so wild about. In fact, I did. It was empty of everything I'd found in the months before.
...And for all it hurts to be apart and to know that... ::swallows:: Any day something could happen and I won't have been able to say goodbye... For all it hurts not having someone hold me and to hold. ...All the silly little things it is we do... I'd rather wait for that with someone I really care for than even chance ruining that for something I have no guarantee of or even want in the first place.
I found someone who loves me and who actually helped me see things in a way that lets me love myself and my life. I've never had that before. The month or so we were apart made me realize a few things. One of them is that - whether I found it initially online or not, whether there's an age difference or not - that's something not to be taken for granted. Everyone is such a precious jewel and yet for all that glitter, somehow just the one fits you perfectly. Cuts and bruises included. Why pass that up because of the way you first encountered that jewel or because it's a few years older than you are?
(Okay, so that was more self-defense than anything but I hope you see my point at least a little. Not every online relationship is baseless. I think starting the relationship just for romance may have a little to do with things as well. Also, as more than one other person here has said, maturity and experience come with more than age alone. Just... ::laughs and sighs:: I'll quit rambling now. Sorry. )
Posts: 1548 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I'd wager that nearly everyone's online persona is slightly different from their "real life" personality, simply because having no face and no fat thighs or skinny arms frees us to become more of what we wish we were.
Audeo, this next part is, I feel, extemely important. Please, please read it. I don't think this guy is a psycho killer who will extract your soul through your nose, but I think you should be prepared to meet him.
1. Meet him the first time in a public place. 2. Don't get in his car until you completely trust him, or unless someone you do trust is also in the car (say, his parents or another girl). 3. Don't expect your visit to be magical. I know a girl who had an online relationship with a guy she had met at a church youth camp. She invited him to her prom, and he flew in. The sparks just weren't there. Don't get upset if it doesn't work out, especially since you probably are spending a lot of money to meet him. It's okay—somewhere out there is someone better for you than him. 4. If you do hit it off, it will be hard to leave. You'll start pinching pennies just to make it back to him. Keep in mind, though, that just because it worked for a week doesn't mean that it will work long-term. Think about what you'll do if he ends up being really great in person too. 5. It will be awkward to talk to someone face-to-face that you feel you know but have never seen. You'll get used to it, but be prepared for the weirdness. Be yourself. 6. I don't know if you're planning on staying at his house, but definitely have a back-up plan in case he does end up being a 40-year-old psychopathic killer.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Part of this seems to come back to that age old question of whether online friendships are "real" or not. I think I've finally figured out why there seems to be such a wide range of opinions on just how real online relationships actually are. (I was very surprised when I found out that some people <not just people who don't ever get online> don't consider them to be, totally.)
I've decided that online relationships are just exactly as real as the people involved think of them and treat them as being. I think that must be why some of us have throroughly real friendships online and others have something less. So the trick is to be sure that each of you imbues the relationship with the same level of realness.
Come to think of it, that's pretty important in threespace relationships as well. Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:To everyone who is in love, the other person is completely singular and unique in all of human history. What's amazing is that they were even alive in the same historical era as you! And then to think that you actually met them! It's just a miracle, all of that!
Absolutely, ana kata. *grin I can't believe my own luck, actually. And to think that I managed to find him, out of all the times and places there could be. Marvelous! (makes me believe in luck, it does) And it didn't matter to me that he is 15 years older, just as it didn't matter to my mother that my father was 20 years older than she.
quote:So then to ask that they also be born within a couple of years of you either way, isn't that asking a little too much? Would you turn your back on perfection and say it fell short for such a minor reason as that? Would you look such a gift horse in the mouth? I would not.
Again, agreed. And no, I did not, in large part because I have exquisite taste and a finely developed sense of gratitude for the good in my life.
I just went through a few extra permutations in my mind to make sure that he wasn't someone to worry about. Unfortunately, something about our culture seems to encourage a certain dysfunction in some people along those lines, kind of like how being approached on the street with a get-rich-quick scheme ("all you need to do is give me X amount, and you're guaranteed whoop-dee-doodles, can't pass this up") makes me look a little more carefully at the situation. Sure, it could be for real, but I've seen this game before, and it ain't healthy for me or my bankbook.
Mind you, were I to run across someone I was truly convinced needed some of my money for a good cause, it'd be a different matter. I'd just be sure to run a more specific test to follow up on the sensitive creepometer test result.
quote:I've decided that online relationships are just exactly as real as the people involved think of them and treat them as being. I think that must be why some of us have throroughly real friendships online and others have something less. So the trick is to be sure that each of you imbues the relationship with the same level of realness.
Exactly! And you've always been remarkably real here. Hopefully, you can continue to encourage the same genuineness in others.
posted
i think what we've sorta settled on is that it's not any particular number that matters, but that certain lifestages have a hard time fusing. like high school and college - while college and post-grad is more likely to be healthy.
as far as online relationships go...they are real, of course, but different than meatspace or threespace, or whatever other cool word we've come up with. i like talking to people online, but i always prefer meeting in person. my relationships with people i met online first did change slightly when i met them in person. meeting someone in the flesh has huge impacts that i don't think we always notice at first. i rather prefer them, though.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
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