I mean, I am appropriately hoping he wasn't permanently injured, but I love that he got the crap beat out of him by the people he was trying to victimize.
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Now if only all Catholic schoolgirls would ban together world-wide and beat the snot out of Britney Spears.
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posted
His screaming visage was reflected in their shiny black patent-leather shoes.
I once worked with a girl who had graduated from a Catholic high school. Really cool. She was the only one in the office that could swear better than I could. Posts: 524 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I'm not going to defend the actions of a man exposing himself to teenage girls, but where does one draw the line regarding so-called vigilante justice? Is it acceptable because these were girls beating up a man? Part of me is really surprised at the responses on this thread, and part is entirely unsurprised. Is punching and kicking a legitimate response to indecent exposure?
It made me think back to the thread regarding the treatment of people in jail, and whether or not they "deserve it." And maybe I'm sensitive to it because I watched last night's episode of Threat Matrix, which could be indirectly related.
posted
Vigilante violence is not an appropriate response . . . but sometimes you [or rather, I] can't help but laugh when somebody gets punished in such a way. Sometimes it is viscerally satisfying to hear about a creep getting a good whupping, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that whuppings are not how we deal with creeps in this country.
Is it funnier because he was beat up by girls? Yes, but not for the reasons you seem to suggest. Not because it's more humiliating, or at least, not directly for this reason.
What makes it so satisfying is that he chose to victimize these people for a reason. The punishment fits his choice of victim so nicely. He perceived young girls as being weak enough that he could work through his sexual power issues through them, much as all pedophiles choose children because they feel less threatened by kids, and so it is pleasantly ironic that his victims turned the tables on him.
posted
Sorry Papa Moose-I thought that karma was definitely served in this case.
quote: Police said he would be charged with 14 criminal counts including harassment, disorderly conduct, open lewdness and corrupting the morals of a minor.
Because obviously they were slowly corrupted by his lewdness, which is why they felt the urge to beat the snot out of him. For this reason, the school-girls were not charged with assaulting the man. Posts: 701 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
It reminds me of the car jacker who hopped into a minivan at a gas station in California and then was beat senseless by the other passengers in the van. It seems he tried to steal a vehicle filled to the brim with high school kick boxers on their way back from a competition.
It's the poetic justice that makes it funny. And, down deep inside, it makes me feel good when someone doing something so obviously bad actually gets what is coming to them.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Pop, how would you react if it was your underage daughter or sister who had a weenie wagged at her as she was getting out of school?
"I say, old chap, that's in bad taste, rather. Halt, in the name of the law! I am placing you under citizens arrest, cease and desist this vile behavior or I shall be forced to ummm , uhh. . . continue berating you, without raising my voice?"
Vigilante justice is a problem, to be sure. But this guy was asking for it, surely. It's just hilarious that he was beaten by a crowd of kids he was visually assaulting. Do you really think that most kids or adults wouldn't get violent when the tables are turned? Like Bella said, this was karma, and appropriate punishment. I bet he thinks twice before he does it again.
posted
As a friend so perfectly articulated, I can't help but think that there are many, many sweaty InterNerds getting off on the idea of being attacked by 20 or so Catholic school girls.
It's like Death By Chocolate.
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posted
Along the lines of what ralphie said, this may have been no punishment at all. I've seen Dave Attell go into clubs where guys pay for that kind of abuse on his show Insomniac. People have some very twisted notions of excitment, this guy is obviously no exception.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Papa, your post surprised me and made me think about my instinctive approval of the girls' actions. I appreciate your point. Of course, upon reflection, I still approve of what they did.
First of all, according to the article, this was the eighth time this guy had exposed himself. He was also described by authorities as a known sexual predator. This leads me to think that the justice system has failed (surprise, surprise) in protecting these girls from that pervert. Frankly, I'm thrilled that they refused to be victimized anymore.
Think about how young these girls are - some of the freshmen could be as young as thirteen. I went to college in New York and I was flashed my third week there. It is incredibly violating and I was freaked out for a long time after that. And I was eighteen and in college. I feel great when I think about those girls beating on that pervert.
You know, the comment that I made about Britney Spears was only partly tongue-in-cheek. I'm an ardent supporter of freedom of artistic expression, but the sexualization of children is repugnant to me. How many pediphiles are fans of Britney Spears and t.A.T.u?
posted
For some reason this thread made me think of a picture I saw in todays morning paper. The picture was of a man, standing stark naked on a skateboard obviously rolling on a skateboard ramp. The picture was from the behind, and in the background, looking over the side of the ramp and starring at what was apparently a full frontal nudity, were perhaps a dozen children aged around ten, several women and a couple of men, all (but one man) smiling and laughing and looking as if they thoroughly enjoyed the view. The capture under the picture, and the only accompanying text, was "streaker brightening the day at skateboard event".
Obviously there is a difference between a man that purposely exposes himself to young children and a streaker at a public event, but I can't help thinking that laughter often would be a more appropriate response than schock or rage in many situations like these. If a person is looking for some sort of sexual thrill by exposing him or herself, it can't be very satisfying if everybody start laughing at you.
Too bad that we have let our system of justice get out of control to the point where a group of teenaged girls have to take upon themselves the responsibility of their own protection.
The guy was a serial flasher and predator. Why didn't civilization take care of him for them?
Is punching and kicking a legitimate response to indecent exposure?
In this case, it was probably a good response. It was all those girls had to work with after they were failed by the "responsible adults" around them.
Posts: 524 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
According to the article I read, he was hospitalized for minor wounds to the mouth. I'd say that's getting off pretty light for having a crowd of hormonal teenage girls running after him. I would expect him to recieve nothing less than a scalping from such a group, but they acted suprisingly nice to the dude.
posted
You know, A guy wagged his willy at me one evening. I went for a walk about that time of day everyday, almost. He said my name, and just kind of stepped out of the bushes. I did not know HIM. It was evening and he was, erm, in a state of readiness. I was sixteen and had never seen one of those before.
By all rights, I should have been scared to death, but all I could do was laugh. I couldn't even walk away-- I could barely breathe, I was laughing so hard. I laughed until tears ran down my face and belly ached.
My beloved says sometimes I have a 'withering laugh', and I think, looking back, that he's right. The guy eventually walked away. I was still immobilized by the giggles.
Never happened again to me, or anyone I heard of.
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posted
Well I suppose everyone would jail a bunch of young male teenagers who run down a 25 year old woman flashing them. Its a normal societal action though, against male sex offenders etc., and makes sense that way. Not that I agree, personally I'd just shrug it off. Now if he touches someone thats completely different. Of course then I'm a man, not a woman.
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Guess what, Black Fox, (IMHO) this is precisely the attitude that caused these girls to have to take matters into their own hands.
IMHO, having some guy repeatedly flash teenaged girls with (apparently) no repercussions is a REALLY BIG DEAL. Frankly, I don't want to wait until he "touches" someone.
Posts: 524 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Well, I suppose that violence is never the best reaction. In that situation, I think the best reaction would probably have been for all of them the laugh derisively and point.
However, as Mrs. M. pointed out, he had done this several times before and it had obvioulsy not been taken care of. So, I think I feel better that the girls reacted in the way that they did - took control of the matter - rather than falling into the role that society seems to find more appropriate for women, that of being helpless victims with no power over their own situation. It seems to have been necessary because, obviously, those authorities who were appointed to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen weren't doing their jobs too well.
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quote:First of all, according to the article, this was the eighth time this guy had exposed himself. He was also described by authorities as a known sexual predator. This leads me to think that the justice system has failed (surprise, surprise) in protecting these girls from that pervert. Frankly, I'm thrilled that they refused to be victimized anymore.
No argument here. Although I think the best response would've been to point, laugh, and yell "that's the smallest one I've ever seen!"
quote: Think about how young these girls are - some of the freshmen could be as young as thirteen. I went to college in New York and I was flashed my third week there. It is incredibly violating and I was freaked out for a long time after that. And I was eighteen and in college.
I think that says a lot more about the negativity parts of our society associate with the human body than anything.
quote: I'm an ardent supporter of freedom of artistic expression, but the sexualization of children is repugnant to me. How many pediphiles are fans of Britney Spears and t.A.T.u?
None. All of the pop artists likely on your list are post-pubescent.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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Think about how young these girls are - some of the freshmen could be as young as thirteen. I went to college in New York and I was flashed my third week there. It is incredibly violating and I was freaked out for a long time after that. And I was eighteen and in college. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that says a lot more about the negativity parts of our society associate with the human body than anything. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What on earth is that supposd to mean? How does Mrs.M's disgust at having some jerkoff show himself off against her desire and permission relate to 'society's negativity' about the human body? In cases like this, the human body is used as a weapon, and I'll be damned if I, as a member of society, don't act 'negatively' (to put it very very mildly) to such a despicable act.
posted
Violating? Freaking out for a long time? Clearly there is a lot of socialization at work to cause such a reaction to a 4-inch long piece of flesh. I think we should lament cultivating the environment that led to someone's unnecessary discomfort.
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As far as I am concerned, there is much too much emphasis on "protecting" the accused in our country, even when they have been caught with their pants down (pun intended)-
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quote: Clearly there is a lot of socialization at work to cause such a reaction to a 4-inch long piece of flesh. I think we should lament cultivating the environment that led to someone's unnecessary discomfort.
Although I do agree with you to a point that we as a society are incredibly sensitive to displays of nudity and displays of sexuality, (which are similar, but not the same thing), I do not agree that this makes what he was doing any more right. The fact is, in our culture, we are sensitive to such displays, and that should be respected.
Maybe that's not a bad thing. After all, if our children were all as comfortable with seeing each other's privates as adults are, surely we would have a larger occurence of teenage pregnancy? That's just my personal opinion, no offense meant to anyone. It may very well work in reverse, that we have a larger occurence of it now because our youngsters are more curious about such mysteries.
But still, IMHO, I believe that part of the reason why our society does have such a large reaction to such things is that we revere our sexuality, and when we see someone that seems to not, we react in an appauled manner.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I wonder if this guy will stop the behavior now that he's been beaten? If this was somehow corrective then maybe there's an argument in favor of it.
I sort of doubt it, though. I think it's more likely he'll just pick targets that can't fight back as easily in the future.
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posted
Well, as long as that new target is, say... a tree, then yeah, I'm ok with it. But what if it's children?
Overall I don't think there's an easy answer. Even if it's decided that this is on the "ok" side of the line, it doesn't help draw the line, at least not for me. It's clear to me that the majority feel this was ok. I'm all for justice, but karmic dessert ain't the same thing.
posted
But what if actions can't be corrected? Should it then become "OK" to let that person alone? It does come down to that old question of the meaning of punishment. Is it for for rehabilitation or justice/revenge?
In a country (the United States) that usually hates the bad guy and then pampers them when caught, I would say vigilantism is the last justice left. Ironic, considering punishment is not about rehabilitation. The lack of a justice minded system shouldn't be surprising that more victims are suing for damages rather than charging with a crime.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
i am going to have to disagree with richard berg and side along the lines of what sarcasticmuppet said.
even in cultures where there is more comfort with the human body, there are appropriate and inappropriate ways of displaying yourself. in japan, it is not considered sexual or offensive to bathe in the company of others. it is not okay to walk outside of a highschool and wag your bits at young men and women, however.
it is all about context, intention, and circumstances. if i am walking out of the shower and a young neighborhood boy is over without my knowledge and he sees my breasts that is one thing, but to know a young boy is over, walk out, lift my shirt, and fondle myself in front of him would be horrific and completely out of line.
as far as it being right or wrong to applaud the girls: hmm. some people argue a slippery slope, but i disagree. i think i would know where to draw the line. the man was not maimed or crippled, he was just taken by surprise and banged up a little. apparently that is what some people need to learn their lesson. say someone tries to rob me and i defend myself by punching them really hard in the face, scaring them off. i think that is okay. okay, now say someone tries to rob me and i stab them in the face with a knife repeatedly. not okay. i'm sorry, i just have a really hard time feeling bad about this situation. there are too many bad guys that get off scotfree. especially in cases of sexual abuse/assault/etc. he may not have forced himself on anyone, but he acted very inappropriately, and should have learned by now how to be a productive and civilized adult. *shrug* i would have kicked him, too.
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quote:I do not agree that this makes what he was doing any more right.
Where did I say this? The guy is obviously an idiot just asking for more chlorine in the gene pool. As for length, I think it's safe to assume such idiots are compensating for something...
My point had to do with the odd affectation our culture attaches to events like these. It's not an idle point, since as porcelain girl noted exposure not far removed from things like sexual assault. In the latter cases the tragedy of our attitudes toward women et al. becomes realized when victims, taught from birth to be submissive and oversensitized, need years of counseling to remove the "stain" from their consciousness that isn't (or shouldn't be) their fault.
Edit -- to be clear, it's not just about women. Boys/men raped by men encounter similar psychological problems, but for different reasons: latent homophobia, gender identity issues, and so on. As evidence the root of the matter lies in socialization, compare with men who are raped by women: they might not be happy, but they'll get over it.
[ November 01, 2003, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Richard Berg ]
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
It's just incredibly naive to think that sexual actions like that are not bound up with their intent and their consent. By exposing himself in that way he was threatening rape. If intent and consent were not important in sexual situations then rape would equal lovemaking. Rapists have always tried to claim they are the same, in fact. "She wanted it." "She does it with other guys." "I didn't take anything from her that she doesn't still have." Only the really clueless believe them. Richard, you are totally wrong about this. Society did nothing here but provide the context in which this man chose how to be offensive and threatening to people he thought were too weak to defend themselves. He turned out to be mistaken.
[ November 01, 2003, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I'm really heartened by the frequency with which girls nowadays tend to deck guys who are acting offensively toward them. I think girl power is working.
When I was a young girl, I suffered nearly constant sexual harrassment from guys in public, starting at age 12 and continuing until... well, it still goes on sometimes, though it's no longer frightening. Just rather embarrassing. (A guy at work got down on his knees in the shop in front of several others and said, "will you marry me?" the other day. What was the meaning of that? What was I supposed to do? I dislike being derisive or unkind. So I laughed in what I hope was a kindly way and said to others nearby, "my fan club", and passed over it.)
We were taught to be shrinking violets. We were taught, "don't go there, don't do that, you can't, it's dangerous, you are a woman". Bullshit. Withering scorn, as Olivia pointed out, is one weapon at your disposal. Decking them is another. Personally now when I get whistles and shouts and such I tend to favor them with a benevolent smile and a Princess Di wave. But I've never understood what it's about. For whom are they acting like that? Not for me, that's for sure! I think it's something they do for the benefit of other guys. If you notice, it's guys in groups who tend to do this most, construction workers being the stereotypical ones.
It happened to come up with my nieces the other day, I asked them what they did when guys bothered them. They looked at me like I was nuts and said guys never bothered them. That if they did they'd just kick them or something. Yay, maybe things are really changing.
[ November 01, 2003, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
A close analogy to this situation is one we were talking about recently that was (is it still?) going on in Baton Rouge. A man wearing a t-shirt in homage of the recently caught serial killer has been breaking into girls' rooms and standing there looking at them. They wake up and this stranger in the t-shirt is looking at them.
I said the next girl who finds him in her room should shoot him dead. That he's sending a very clear signal that he's a serial killer wanna be. Why wait until he actually kills his first victim? Let his be the life we sacrifice to this dilemma, not hers.
I do agree that if he's apprehended in his home and convicted, that he has not committed a capital offense. But if he were in my room, or any friend's room, I think he should be shot dead.
Someone might say, "who has he harmed?" Yet I think it's clear that he intends harm. Those who live by the sword so die.
[ November 01, 2003, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Guess what, Black Fox, (IMHO) this is precisely the attitude that caused these girls to have to take matters into their own hands.
ana kata, Your posts are really interesting, maybe things really are changing. Maybe there's less of viewing the girls as crazed victims (poor girls), and more praise for their successful empowerment.
It sounds like the girls were empowered to action by their society's apparent inability to remove Mr. Exposer.
Being passive and largely receptive is a large part of our culture's (and many others probably) basic concept of what it means to be 'feminine.'
Specifically though, I do disagree with this characterization:
quote: I said the next girl who finds him in her room should shoot him dead.
It sounds like the girl is waiting to kill him...If she's got a gun, or is thinking about this 'trap,' I'd hope she could come up with something less fatal. I guess I'm trying to make a distinction between 'planning to kill' and 'not planning to kill.' An alarm maybe? A bucket of Acid over the door?
All that said: if I was a girl, and there was a guy in my house, and I made the connection that this was the guy, I would do everything I could to seriously injure him.
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