posted
ok, so I'm 17 and I've been talking to the recruiter... I have to say, I'm kind of interested. They is an 8 grand signing bonus, 150$ check every month, and 40 thousand dollars for college.
Here's the deal... I'm obligated for 6 years, the first year and a half there is no way for me to be called up due to my lack of training (I can't go to basic till I graduate High school). Then I'll be going to college and I'll be transferred into the ROTC program (which once again makes me ineligible to be called up). So That only leaves a 6 month window when *if* my unit is called up, I'll have to go.
I'm not really sure why I'm telling hatrack this... I've already talked about it with most of my friends... none of them like the idea, but only one is dead against it. I've talked to my parents, their opinion is that I'll get called up right away and get killed before I ever graduate High school, but they'll sign for me if I really want to do it.
Here's the thing, I do want to serve my nation... I'm just not sure if this is the way, I mean odds are I'll never see combat and I'll do very little good, but I'll still be putting my nation before myself....
Ok hatrack... I'm ready to hear the anti-military comments, the pro-military comments, and hopefully a few un-influenced comments...
posted
I wouldn't count on not being forced to go overseas if you join the National Guard. Things do change.
Anyhow, I have a friend in the National Guard. He's over in Iraq right now. He's not real talkative, but he'd probably be willing to exchange a few e-mails if he has the time. Let me know if you're interested.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
If you're afraid of being called up at all, I'd say that it's not worth it. If you really don't mind, or would actually like to serve in Iraq, or wherever our troops are when you are eligible, then go for it. But you shouldn't sign up not expecting serve at some point. It seems highly unlikely for you not to be called up when they are currently calling up every available unit, and even asking some people to stay much longer than they had originally anticipated. Of course, even two years from now we could be looking at a very different issue. Then again, maybe nothing will have changed at all.
Posts: 349 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Well I went into the Army, and served for 3 years or a 4 year obligation due to family reasons, so I don't think you can say I am anti-militarty....
But read the fine print. There is no 6 year obligation, they are all a minimum of 8 years. The balance will be served in the IRR - Individual Ready Reserve - and they are calling those guys up already, on a daily basis.
I wouldn't advise you to sign up, not with the way things have been going in Iraq. If you do sign up, keep in mind that all of that, including your ineligible status at any time, can be altered without your concent once you have enlisted.
quote: Here's the thing, I do want to serve my nation... I'm just not sure if this is the way, I mean odds are I'll never see combat and I'll do very little good, but I'll still be putting my nation before myself....
If you're counting the signing bonus, pay, and college money and figuring the odds of being called up based on how small a window you have it doesn't sound to me like you're really planning on putting your country before yourself.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, I certainly did not serve personally. But if that is how you are weighing the issue, it does not sound like a good choice for you. Think about it a little more, you've got plenty of time. The signing bonus might even go up if the war goes badly! Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
If I were you I'd wait until college when you signed up for ROTC...that way you would know that you would get a college degree before you were called up.
Also, I am sure we will still be in Iraq 4 years from now when you get out of college (though hopefully we will have a smaller footprint by then). Would you be OK with going over to Iraq after you graduate?
Military life is not for everyone, however I know many people who thought it was a perfect fit for them. Just think about how willing you would be to go overseas to fight. If the answer is not very, then I'd avoid inlisting in the Guard (or joining ROTC). If you would be fine with it, then sign up...thought even then, I'd recommend waiting until you started college and enrolled in ROTC.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
ROTC programs are a bit different. Unless you sign scholarship papers, you aren't obligated for service for the first two years. Once you reach your third year, you have to decide whether or not to contract. If you contract, you do get a monthly stipend. However, if you drop the program after you are contracted, you have to serve time as an enlistee. Also, if you contract your first year via accepting a scholarship, the same applies.
Read the fine print.
I nearly signed a three year scholarship with the Army ROTC in college. Then I read the fine print and dropped the program.
posted
Watch your college money, in some States you will get full tuition for being in the Guard, but if you go ROTC they will not let you Double Dip, also your second half of your enlistment bonus will not come through if you are ROTC, you will get paid as an E-5 once you are a cadet and you will likely become a platoon daddy with all the officer call-ups, so you will be the 19 yr old smart ass with 40 guys who all know more about it then you do all looking to you for orders.
We all look at the money, do not feel dirty about that, the military does more by noon then most jobs require all day and then they work you eight more hours at least. If I were you I would use my Guard Tuition reimbursement as an undergraduate, get four years in the Guard to get to E-4 or E-5, use the GI-Bill and pile up the college credits. Get your second half bonus and then go ROTC as a grad student or senior, You can also try OCS and get it done in a much shorter time. ROTC is kind of silly, but OCS has a cutthroat rep.
If you are a good student and athlete and are serious about wanting to be an officer, start now and get a nomination to one of the Academies, It is a brutal process, but if you are a top student and leader (or an Eagle Scout) and you know a congressman it is the way to go.
quote:Here's the thing, I do want to serve my nation... I'm just not sure if this is the way, I mean odds are I'll never see combat and I'll do very little good, but I'll still be putting my nation before myself....
You don't seem to want to serve too badly. What you write seems more concerned about avoiding being deployed and getting money than actually being called to actually serve. Perhaps you worded what you meant badly? I recall you not having a problem with deployment a few months ago when you said you were going to be joining.
Posts: 1170 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Those avenues usually lead to comission as a 2nd lieutenant (Army, Marines, Air Force) and an ensign in the Navy when comissioned out of college through ROTC or a service academy.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:I'm almost positive Stryker did not say he was going to be joining a few months ago. I might be wrong though, do you have a link?
Well, I could have sworn he mentioned it a couple times back in the summer, but "Stryker" and "military" in the search only pulls up the following thread.
quote:I firmly believe that we as a nation need to learn what it is like to fight for these liberties that we have before we can enjoy them. Not to mention the fact that we are more and more becoming a nation of obese, TV addicted, morons. Maybe the fear of getting shot at will motivate our youth to get out and stay in shape.
quote:Danzig- No, I wouldn't want to have an army of guys like you, but I?m betting that the guys who aren't patriotic enough to serve their country and give there lives for it, will leave their country as soon as the receive their notice.
quote:Serving your country is being willing to give your life so that those who are too old, sick, or otherwise unable to fight, don't have to.
quote:shigosei- are you say that you'd rather die while walking you children to school, then to receive the honor of fighting for your country (even if you're being pushed into it)
quote:No, I?m not in the military. But I plan on joining after I graduate.
quote: plan on joining the military in 2 years when I graduate. I'm joining because many good men have given their lives to save our nation in it's times of need. I feel that it is only fair that I take the same risk for my liberties as the WWII veterans did for theirs.
quote:No, I plan on joining whether there is a war or not.
Not to be too hard on J T Stryker, but his tone in this thread is somewhat different than his tone in that other thread.
[ November 16, 2004, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Jutsa Notha Name ]
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posted
I'll tell you, I am in college now, a junior. I was so close to enlisting immediately after high school to serve in the marines. Some friends of mine had done it in years past and I thought it sounded like a great thing to do for my country. Now, 3 years later I find myself regretting not signing up. I know I would have been deployed to Iraq but I feel horrible that others are fighting a war for me. I am looking into what I can do after college in the way of the military.
I think I should also say that I am looking at doing the peace corp after I graduate. I think it sounds like a great experience and an excellent way to help those who are less fortunate than me.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Now, 3 years later I find myself regretting not signing up. I know I would have been deployed to Iraq but I feel horrible that others are fighting a war for me.
Be careful. It is easy to speak bravely when the onus isn't present at the time.
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posted
Hmm, the reason I was wondering was because I know Stryker, and both he and I agree that he doesn't really have a military mentality. Also, this was the first time I'd heard him talk about it, so I was surprised.
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posted
Yes, the tone is different, I've been talking to more and more Military people and they keep instilling more and more doubts in my mind....
I want to serve, but right now it's more of a issue of wether or not I love my country enough to risk being deployed before i graduate College.
The thing is, I was sure at one point that I owed society for all of the good things that I have, but my lately I've been wondering how much i owe anyone... I think that the influences around me lately have been making "service" out to be some form of suicide...
I'm just rather confused on where i stand on alot of issues right now and i appreciate all of the comments you've made.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I don't think you're wrong for having some doubts. Things look much different to us as our perspective changes. Talking to those currently in the military is enlightening. It is usually a dramatic difference from those who are entering or freshly in the military.
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Do you mean the obligation that I had my senior year? the obligation I would have had if I signed up? or the obligation that I am not fulfilling because I didnt sign up? Or one I am not mentioning.
Despite my selfishness of going to college instead of enlisting for my country, In any of the situations I mentioned above, I still feel horrible that others are doing something which I feel I should be helping with. Plus it was something I was always interested in, not just because I talked to a recruiter.
Edit: I just wanted to add that how I feel in no way is going to be a gauge of how you or anyone else will feel if they choose the college route. I just know what I have been thinking and feeling for the past few years.
posted
You see, I'm affriad i'll end up like Promethius.... I also had an interest long before i talked to a recruiter...
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
What you may not have considered is that there are many ways to serve this country, and most of them have nothing to do with war.
Become a teacher, or a coach, or a Scout Leader.
Be prepared to fight if necessary,but dont; rush into it ready to die.
Anyone can die, and we all do eventually...but learning to live a good life is a lot harder than being just another blowhard who repeats whatever his drill sergent tells him is right.
And if you give to the community rahter than just taking from it, it IS serving this nation by making sure it remains for those who will eventually come back to it, and by being willing to do fight for it if necessary.
Also, no one should be forced to serve in the military unless there is no other choice....there is ALWAYS something to do here to help out if someone doesn't believe in the fight we are in.
posted
Stryker please read my edit. I dont want what I am thinking to sway you. It was merely my personal feelings on what happened with me. I would hate for you to sign up because something I said swayed you, and then have you have a horrible experience.
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That is also why I am thinking extremely seriously about the peace corp. I think not only would I be helping my country by being a sort of informal ambassador, but I would also be helping others who are less fortunate.
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posted
What obligation are you talking about, Promethius? I said the onus, meaning the burden of decision isn't staring you in the face right now. Look back at why you didn't make the decision then. If you feel differently, then go enlist right now. You will still be able to go to school. I am noticing a large number of young people, mostly men, talking often about some obligation and fighting for our liberty and serving the country, but in every instance there is always some excuse keeping those men from being over there right at the moment, where good people are fighting daily for their own lives whether they believe in what they're doing or not. Frankly, I feel that the whole attitude of many youngsters today about somehow seeming more noble because they shot a gun while in uniform is disgusting and not at all what is behind the true honor of serving this country in the armed forces.
Basically, what I am suggesting is that if you are going to say it, then mean it. That doesn't mean you have to go charging into war as a challenge, but it means if you really feel that serving the nation is meaningful to you, then learn what it really means to serve the nation, not just engage in some real life CounterStrike gaming.
That is what I mean when I say that Stryker's attitude is not bad. He's assessing himself and what service means to him. I think his assessment is a better indicator of his humanity that any bravado or willingness to fight that someone could proclaim at any time.
[ November 16, 2004, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Jutsa Notha Name ]
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posted
don't worry Promethius... I already kinda feel guilty for being so verbal about wanting to go, and then possibly (more than likly at this point) not going.
Dragonee... I'd make a much better defense lawyer... the "the devil made me do it" defense still works, right...
edit: Thank you Justa...
[ November 16, 2004, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: J T Stryker ]
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posted
Ahh, I was interpreting Onus to mean obligation. No, I really did mean what I said. And it is not because of some sort of manly gun toting bravado, this is also why I talked about the peace corp as an option for my. I agree with you totally about what you said in the first few sentences. We always have excuses as to why we didnt, and that is what frustrates me to no end about myself in relation to this specific topic.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Something in logistics... But at the moment i'm leaning towards nothing... I'll let you guys know what i end up doing after i meet with the recruiter again on thursday.
[ November 17, 2004, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: J T Stryker ]
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posted
Military service for a man is like losing your virginity for a woman in that dithering about the 'right time' and soul searching is useless. It is something that you are never ready for, it is always somewhat traumatic (though Fort Jackson is no Fort Benning) and you will never 'get it' until after you do it and then you will be a different person.
'If you pray for God to reveal whether my words are true, testing them through the offices of the Holy Spirit you will find that they are true'
Ask god not these guys, hell he may want you be a delivery boy or a soup chef, he wanted me to be a soldier.
quote: Military service for a man is like losing your virginity for a woman in that dithering about the 'right time' and soul searching is useless. It is something that you are never ready for, it is always somewhat traumatic (though Fort Jackson is no Fort Benning) and you will never 'get it' until after you do it and then you will be a different person
posted
JT - keep in mind the military is short of truck drivers and infantry at the moment.
Logistics people, probably not so much.
Just something to consider.
And remember, the recruiter is trying to sell you on something - the good ones may omit the truth, the bad ones will lie outright. Just like any other salesman.
posted
If you are feeling the urge to sign up and really really don't want to be put in harm's way, go with the Air National Guard (Be like Bush ). The ANG is a branch of the air-force and isn't as hardcore as Amry or (eek) Marines. I also don't think there are many units deployed in Iraq right now. You don't have to be a pilot, either. There are a wealth of jobs in the ANG just as in the regular NG. If you want to serve the country and still keep from going into harm, I think ANG is your best bet (Talk to an Air Force recruiter about it)
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