quote:According to reports in the local media, police said a few residents, who they declined to identify, lodged complaints. A few prominent citizens with strong Christian beliefs were angered by Webb and her activities and asked police to investigate, local media reported.
So much for free trade.
Posts: 171 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Two police officers wasting our taxes actually arrested this woman? And how many people in that state just died beacause some cops were too busy spending their time getting their kicks off listening to the "surveillance" tapes from that so called bust?
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote: A few prominent citizens with strong Christian beliefs were angered by Webb and her activities and asked police to investigate, local media reported.
If they have such strong beliefs, they don't have to buy her wares!!! >_<
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Women over 18 meet in a private home for what the company calls a "girl's night out of giggles and fun," during which products designed to enhance sex lives are sold.
This sounds like a service to mankind, somehow.
Posts: 524 | Registered: May 2003
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Funny thing is, I know a woman who organizes/sells such things. We suggested the name and designed the logo for her website. Better that crowd than the pool boy, I figure.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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I am glad I do not live in Texas and This sounds like it could be Kansas and I wonder what my neighbors are doing in their bedroom and is it moral? Posts: 440 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Texas >.< She's not doing something evil and wrong, she's providing a nice comfortable place for people to talk about sex and `deal with those sort of issues... Pesky people trying to get her jailed! Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:And how many people in that state just died beacause some cops were too busy spending their time getting their kicks off listening to the "surveillance" tapes from that so called bust?
Now that's unfair.
I would submit that no lives were lost in the arrest of this woman.
Now, here's the deal. I've never been invited to one of these parties. Maybe my friends are just the wrong crowd for that sort of thing. But if my neighbor sold them, I don't think I'd have any reason or cause to know. I don't disapprove of getting together and talking about sex, I think we talk way too little about it in this country.
I would be way uncomfortable in any environment where someone would be explaining to me how to use a vibrator to enhance my sex life.
Personally I don't know that what she's doing should be against the law. And, from what it sounds like, if those laws are so vague even condoms could be considered illegal then the laws probably do need to be overhauled.
But, having never been to a party I can't really say - do things go on there besides just talking about stuff? I mean, are there like demonstrations or something? I just wonder if there's more going on than what we're hearing.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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If there is, what of it? Its no business of yours or mine.
Though personally I would be delighted to find that out .
Laws like this anger me. Repeat after me:
ITS NONE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS
Leave people alone. They aren't hurting anyone, in fact, she's doing them a service. Your morality is not there's. There are more important things to worry about. (Speaking to the government, not Belle )
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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There could be some things that would make me think she needs to be stopped. If minors were ever present at the parties. If any of the material being sold was child pornography. Those are the things I don't know and no, it isn't my business per se...(I don't even WANT to know) it would be something that I think the police should step in and stop.
Now, I doubt that's the case here, but I just wonder why her? I mean, there are presumably a bunch of associates selling this stuff in Texas, what is happening to cause all the ruckus with this particular woman? From the description in the article, it sounds like a harmless little thing, akin to a bachelorette party. Something most church ladies, to use the term, would never ADMIT to going to and that they laugh about behind their hands, but nothing worth causing a huge public scandal. That's why I wonder if there's something else.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Completely absurd. I have no patience for this moral idiocy. Every day the news makes me hate people more.
This is a perfect example of why being religious makes it harder to be a moral person.
[This post was edited at the request of a Hatrack member to get rid of obscenity. Frankly, given some of the views expressed here, I'm tempted to get rid of the whole thread.]
quote:This is a perfect example of why being religious makes it harder to be a moral person.
Explain what point you're trying to make here, please?
For the record, I am NOT saying the woman should have been arrested - I am NOT automatically siding with the people that complained to the police. Just remember that, kay? I'm just curious why such a big deal, is there more to the story?
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Texas has had this problem for some time, now. It's never been a secret that the law's in place to suppress female sexuality (and homosexuality) -- there are only so many genders sex toys are really applicable to.
I remember reading about a sex store in Texas that has to pretend it's selling educational dildos...
Crap, and here I was trying to think positively of the South.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Belle, this is what happens when morality comes from faith. When you take morals from some old book that says it came right from the almighty invisible sky wizard, you elimate rational reflection from the moral equation. When moral pronouncements are justified on the basis of some supernatural fiat, anything can become moral. This inane obscenity law and 9/11 have the same root cause, the moral stupidity inherent in accepting moral pronouncement on faith.
Posts: 1769 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Objection - there are a lot of Christians around that have no problem at all with marital aids. Blanket statements are sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Thank you, Chris, for saying that. I hate it too when some people lump all Christian stereotypes together without basis.
I have no problem with this woman selling sex aids, if it is done in the privacy of a home, no minors present and all parties are in agreement. Under those guidelines -- I'm not sure why she got arrested -- there is nothing illegal. It does make me wonder which boundary of the law they think she overstepped that gave them grounds for arrest.
Many Christians have no problem with, as Chris said, "marital aids", etc. I have heard of some religions (no, I don't know which ones) that think things like oral sex is wrong -- nothing but traditional stuff is okay. I certainly don't see a biblical basis for that. I think if it is inside marriage, and both partners are in agreement and enjoying it, it is okay. (I'm not talking about three-somes (that would be outside of marriage) or things that would exploit minors, etc. I'm talking within the rights of privacy of a husband/wife relationship.
quote:Belle, this is what happens when morality comes from faith. When you take morals from some old book that says it came right from the almighty invisible sky wizard, you elimate rational reflection from the moral equation. When moral pronouncements are justified on the basis of some supernatural fiat, anything can become moral. This inane obscenity law and 9/11 have the same root cause, the moral stupidity inherent in accepting moral pronouncement on faith.
I'd be curious as to where you think morals come from? If there's a Creator of the Universe, don't you think he's got some say in what ought to go on there?
And if there's not a Creator, then what principles can be used to identify moral precepts that are not ultimately based on individual preference?
There's a difference between saying that laws ought not to be based on faith and morality ought not to be based on faith. Morality is the sum total of how we ought to act. Laws (at least criminal laws) are tools to apply the coercive power of the state to regulate behavior. I.e., laws are expressions of those portions of morality that society as a whole has decided not to leave to the individual conscience. We outlaw murder because the effects of not outlawing murder are too great for society to bear.
So laws are based on morals; morals upon which laws are based can be based on faith without problem, as long as the correct principles for deciding which morals to enshrine in law are followed.
Many people draw this line differently. Although it's possible that a religious person might be inclined to enshrine more moral precepts in law than a non-religious person, by no means is this universal. Even among people of the same faith there is great disagreement on which morals need to be expressed in laws.
However, I doubt there's anybody on this thread who thinks that every single immoral act should be illegal.
Dagonee *Tends toward the libertarian end of things with respect to laws and the conservative end with respect to morals.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Gee, I didn't think this relfected badly on religion, church or Christianity.
I would never use something like this to broadly label any of the above as dangerous, silly, or absurd.
I would, however, use it to paint Texas as dangerous, silly, and absurd.
But that is mostly because its fun to taunt Texans....
from a distance.
I think this is a case of one self-righteous defender of morality sticking their noses into other peoples business because they have an over-inflated sense of self worth. I am guessing they complained to the police that prostitution and illegal sex acts were happening at these parties. The police invested man hours on what they thought was a prostitution or pornography ring. The possibly over-eager police couple involved found no prostitution or pornography, but did find a violation of a law, so as to not waste thier time, booked the woman on that.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:I think this is a case of one self-righteous defender of morality sticking their noses into other peoples business because they have an over-inflated sense of self worth.
posted
Actually, to correct the original post, it's not a crime to sell vibrators. It's a crime to promote them. Adult sex toy stores get around this law by selling them as novelties and with no information on how to use them.
Texas' obscenity law which she violated makes it a crime to promote a device "designed or marketed as useful primarily for the stimulation of human genital organs." And by promote, they mean she explained what they were and how to use them.
However, in this specific case, some of you are wondering exactly what she did. She helped a couple pick out a "sex toy" in a catalog, explained how to use it and ordered it for them.
So, for those of you thinking she whipped one out in somebody's home and started using it, chill. The young "married" couple (undercover cops) came to her, asked her advise, and asked her to order their selection.
Posts: 171 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Yet Walmart sells condoms 'for her pleasure' with instructions on how to use thm. Can we say Double Standard?
Posts: 986 | Registered: Jul 2001
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There are so many laws on the books that are so archaic it's ridiculous. It's illegal to have sex with a porcupine if you live in Florida. (I, for one, don't want to know what happened that prompted them to write *that* law...).
This one, though....It seems most dangerous as far as suppressing female sexuality and homosexuality, like someone said above (sorry, I'm too lazy to find it and quote you). What if a single woman is just looking for a simple way to explore her own sexuality (not to harken back to the onanism thread, but seriously)? I am so frustrated by the fact that female sexuality is seen as "dirty" or strange while men are free to do as they please and be admired for it, whether it's speaking freely (and joking) about male masturbation while shoving female masturbation under the carpet, or calling women whores and men pimps. Honestly, this seems like a perpetuation of this stereotype.
Would a man have been arrested for doing the same thing?
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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If they have such strong beliefs, they don't have to buy her wares!!! >_<
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like demonstrations or something? I just wonder if there's more going on than what we're hearing.
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