posted
Ok I'm writing a paper for work right now, that I know is going to people who are completely clueless about what I'm actually talking about.
I realize Memo form is different from a lot of other proper forms. I don't want to go for all out bullets or anything though.
I realize it is grammatically incorrect but I'm capitalizing things that shouldn't be capitalized to draw attention to them and help form a visual-logical framework.
Here's an example:
quote: The components are broken down into three categories: Metal Hardware, Elastomers and Face Components. Individual part results are listed for each category in this report.
Will this send me to hell?
To maintain parallel construction of a sort, each sentence heading at the beginning of each category section will be along these lines:
There are 3 different types of metal hardware parts: Retainers, Ferrules and Springs.
and breaking it down from there.
I have possibly the best technical writing skills in the company, and I know that communicating with an audience in as simple and non-technical terms as possible is my goal in this case. It needs to be easily read and easily understood.
posted
Capitalization is not a function of grammar. It's a stylistic issue.
Here's my question for you: Do the lists not draw enough attention unless they're capitalized? I really don't see the need for it. I think it'll be easily read and understood without the capitalization.
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posted
If you capitalize, you are in some sense making them into proper nouns.
For example, in legal writing, you talk about "the court" when you're talking about a case that happened elsewhere, but "the Court" when your talking about cases that happened in the court your current case is in.
So if you want to make Metal Hardware into a named category, then capitalize it. But you need to do so everywhere you use the term to refer to the category.
For example:
"There are three main suppliers of metal hardware in the U.S."
"We obtain our Metal Hardware components from three main suppliers."
The first sentence refers to metal hardware in a generic sense. The second refers to Metal Hardware, a named category of things which you have defined earlier in the paper.
posted
Office memos are all about readability. Your main concern is not grammar but rather the reading habits of your coworkers. If you knew that they will only scan your document, capitalizing the important parts is perfectly fine.
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posted
Capitalization and punctuation are not grammar!
Yes, AJ, that's what a serial comma is. It's also a stylistic issue. Newspapers omit it, but book publishers include it. If you leave it out, you risk occasional misreading. I really see no advantage to leaving it out.
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posted
That is me hitting myself against the brick wall.
I know better I really do!!!
AJ
(That was truly a brain fart of a large order of magnitude)
Just out of curiosity when you are editing, do you like looking at large or small size letters relative to your screen? I find I'm always setting word and excel at 75%.
posted
When I used FrameMaker, I actually set it to 110 percent because otherwise, the text was a little blurry. But in Word and WordPerfect, I just leave it at 100.
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posted
I like being able to see more of how the words fit into the page layout all at once, which is why I go down to 75%. I was wondering if seeing more words at once helped with editing. (Though some of the stuff you have posted, not even editing can help!)
I know is definitely a personal thing. Steve's screen drives me crazy because he has it set so large. On the other hand he normally sits twice as far away from the screen as I do.
posted
If I need to see the page layout (which I don't in my current job), I'll temporarily shrink it so I can see more of the page. But otherwise, I'm reading on a sentence and paragraph level.
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posted
Thank you for validating my use of the serial comma. The last time I was in college the instructors insisted that it be left out. I just couldn't do it.
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posted
Ah, technical writing - how I have loved thee.
Try writing for the freaking government. They refuse to move out of the 1950's mentality.
*Sigh*
I hear you about the bullets, AJ - but the sad fact is, even "well-educated" readers stop paying attention after a maximum of 17 words per sentence. And overuse of capitals, boldface, italics, etc., creates a similar loss of attention.
Avoid the "be" verbs. Keep sentences short and active. Allow plenty of white space to rest tired eyes. Parallel verb structure works best. Judicious use of bullets enhances readability in today's world.
(And this is coming from a freak that enjoyed parsing out James Joyce's transitions . . . )
posted
Question 1: Why do The Rules violate Logic? I can't bear to leave things like that. For instance, The Rule on punctuation and quotation marks doesn't make sense. There's always a logical order, just as though they were parentheses in a programming language, and The Rules contradict it.
Question 2: Can you have an entire quoted sentence be part of a larger sentence? It would work logically. For example: "The entire quoted sentence "This is a complete sentence." is quoted within this sentence." Why isn't that valid? Any compiler could understand that! Surely humans can!
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quote:Can you have an entire quoted sentence be part of a larger sentence?
Yes.
quote:For example: "The entire quoted sentence "This is a complete sentence." is quoted within this sentence." Why isn't that valid? Any compiler could understand that! Surely humans can!
But it is valid, except for your punctuation. It should be this: The entire quoted sentence "This is a complete sentence" is quoted within this sentence.
[ February 28, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
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posted
So the period is not part of the complete sentence? I think if I said it that way I'd have to say this:
The entire sentence "This is a complete sentence" is quoted inside this sentence, except for the period which has been left off because of a silly rule of grammar which is not logical and makes no sense.
posted
The fact that the conventional rules are like that is proof that most people's brains work very differently than mine. I can't seem to remember the real rules or figure them out, because they aren't logical. The rules of computer languages always make sense in some way. Once you understand them you can't possibly forget them. So I think I just adjust the rules of english to be something like a computer language instead.
Like putting punctuation inside and outside the quote marks according to the sentence to which it applies.
Did you say "Where did you go?"? She asked him "Why isn't there any water here?". When did you say "Take me to the store, please."?
There. That rule I could follow. If you quote a phrase or word, no punctuation inside the quotes. If you quote a sentence, the punctuation which applies to the sentence quoted goes inside the quotes. In either case the punctuation that applies to the exterior sentence goes outside the quotes. Why can't it be like that?
posted
Because punctuation is not a function of grammar, leaving off the end punctuation does not affect the completeness of the quoted sentence.
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posted
The other thing I have questions about is the use of colons. I know you can use it for lists of items inside a sentence like this: robin, sunshine, natural gas engine generator set, clerical pedophilia.
And if you want, you can use semicolons to set off the items in the list, right?
We have three main areas in which students may specialize: Science, Engineering, and Technology; Math and Philosophy; or Art, Theater, and Literature.
But sometimes I want to end a sentence with a colon then present the various options each in individual paragraphs below that. Is that acceptable? Here is an example.
quote: There are various options available at this point:
We could disconnect the T leads and reconnect J8 to allow the switch to transfer freely to Emergency position. Then the interface would be freed from any error, and I would be able to put in the required timer settings and parameters.
Alternatively, we can wait until the Normal power is tied in, making sure that phases B and C are reversed to give the necessary ABC phase rotation, and leaving J8 loose to disable tranfer, and then put in all the timer settings and setup parameters at that time.
It should take no more than 10-15 minutes to initialize the settings on each switch. Before testing switch function, we must verify again that the phase rotation of the Normal power source matches that of the Emergency source. Otherwise we risk the possibility of all pumps, fans, and other motors on the load trying to reverse at switchover.
posted
Will you tell me the correct way to write the three example sentences with question marks inside and outside the quotes?
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quote:And if you want, you can use semicolons to set off the items in the list, right?
If the items contain internal punctuation (like your example), then yes.
quote:But sometimes I want to end a sentence with a comma like this:
Then maybe even have several paragraphs below, each of which describes a single option using one or more sentences.
Then the next option might involve a few sentences as well.
Is that allowed? Do I just replace the comma with a period to be correct?
Do you mean "colon"? Depending what kind of list you're making, you can leave it as a colon. If you're introducing a list composed of paragraphs, I'd use an introductory phrase followed by a colon, and then I'd bullet each paragraph and punctuate them normally. But I think I'd need to see exactly what you're talking about.
quote:Will you tell me the correct way to write the three example sentences with question marks inside and outside the quotes?
Did you say, "Where did you go?"
She asked him, "Why isn't there any water here?"
When did you say, "Take me to the store, please"?
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I changed it and gave a real example. I realize my question wasn't very clear.
So the rules for punctuation and quotes specify that there's only one punctuation mark at the end of the outer sentence. If either the inner or outer sentences are questions, then use a question mark, but put it inside or outside the quotes depending on which sentence is the question. If they both are questions it goes inside. If they both are periods it goes inside, as well, is that right? In fact, if both are the same it goes inside, even if they are both exclamation points. I imagine exclamation points take precedence over periods too, right? But what if the inner sentence is a question and the outer one takes an exclamation point? Which do you use?
posted
One more question. You set the quoted part off with a comma in those last three examples. Yet my earlier example of quoting a whole sentence inside another sentence you didn't use commas for, did you? How do you decide when to use commans? Is it only for spoken words?
She said, "Please pass the salt", while reaching for her water glass.
The complete sentence "This is a complete sentence" is quoted inside this sentence.
posted
Your new list example is good, except that the list items should be set off so that it's clear that they're list items. Numbering them might be a good option.
quote:If they both are periods it goes inside, as well, is that right?
I imagine exclamation points take precedence over periods too, right?
Right and right.
quote:But what if the inner sentence is a question and the outer one takes an exclamation point? Which do you use?
That's sort of tricky. Chicago says, "If a question mark and an exclamation point are both called for, only the mark more appropriate to the context should be retained." So I guess it's up to you to decide which one is best, but using both is bad. I'd probably use the exclamation point there because otherwise, the force of the statement is lost.
quote:Yet my earlier example of quoting a whole sentence inside another sentence you didn't use commas for, did you? How do you decide when to use commans? Is it only for spoken words?
No, it's not only for spoken words, though you always use a comma to introduce direct dialogue. If the quote reads as part of the sentence, then you omit the comma. Example:
quote:Aristotle said that "those who are eminent in virtue usually do not stir up insurrections."
Because the quote is part of the syntax of the sentence, you can also lowercase the first word. Your example read as part of the sentence (more specifically, as an appositive to the word "sentence"). But because your example was more syntactically remote, I left it capitalized.
Clear as mud, right?
And the comma should go between "salt" and the closing quotation mark.
[ February 28, 2004, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
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