posted
When I was in high school I saw an episode of Sally Jessee Raphael that made me furious! There were all these kids on the show coming on crying and saying that they were being teased in school. Instead of saying, you are fine the way you are they gave these kids makeovers! They were not the one in need of changing! Why is it that we can't teach kids not to make fun of other people? To respect and accept them. Another thing this makes me think of is Autism and deafness. If it's hard for a deaf person to learn to speak and easier to use signs then why force the deaf person to speak? Why can't more people learn to sign at least? Or, an autistic person might not want to talk and socialize. They are made to feel bad and inferior because of this. Why can't the larger society adapt to other people instead of expecting poople to conform to standards that they find difficult. Note that this is not about, say, criminals or people like that... And also, it would be a lot clearer if I were typing it earlier...
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posted
Well, teaching a deaf person to speak and read lips does make sense. It's useful to be able to communicate in the common language of your culture, and no matter how tolerant and accepting people are, there is no way you're going to get even a large minority of people to learn a completely new way of speaking just on the bare possibility of someday needing to speak to a deaf person. People typically learn languages when they have some personal interest in doing so.
That said, though, the practice of ONLY teaching a deaf person to speak and read lips, and refusing to let them sign, is a really bad idea. People should have a form of language that they can learn young and use naturally without having to overcome a huge disadvantage.
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posted
I dunno. I wish they'd have taught me fashion tips instead of tolerance when I was a kid; I would've gotten a lot more tail. Anyone can learn to absorb negative comments -- it's not that hard -- but not everyone is blessed with a "queer eye."
This dichtomy is silly, though. When I'm the totalitarian minister of education, we'll teach both.
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posted
Back in my college anthropology days, I remember reading about a Yanomamo tribe in the Amazon, and how they'd make fun of an (otherwise similar) neighboring tribe because of the way their neighbors pronounced the letter 'm.'
That pretty much summed up human nature for me -- no matter how much you have in common, one group will find a reason to make fun of another group... Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:When I was in high school I saw an episode of Sally Jessee Raphael that made me furious! There were all these kids on the show coming on crying and saying that they were being teased in school. Instead of saying, you are fine the way you are they gave these kids makeovers! They were not the one in need of changing!
Amen, Syn. As someone else said, I've seen the same thing on other shows of this type (Maury Povich being one of the worst about it - and, no I don't watch, but my mother has been known to do so and if I'm in the room, I see it, too).
I've had people trying to get me to conform (go along to get along, basically) pretty much all my life. But I've noticed that the whole trend toward pushing conformity has gotten much worse in the past few years, and I lay a lot of the blame at the feet of these "talk" shows. The whole line they take is, people who are "different" in some way are obligated to change themselves rather than expecting that their choices and their personality be respected as much as those who run with the latest flavor of what is "acceptable".
I was teased all through school for many reasons. I wasn't thin enough. I was smart. I read too much. I didn't choose to wear the latest fashions. I liked science class and I didn't like sewing class. I didn't want to be a cheerleader or member of the drill team. The list could go on and on.
Fortunately, I was raised to like myself for who I am, not who other people wanted me to be. Unfortunately, too many people are raised to believe that if you don't fit in, it's your fault and your duty to change until you do. These sorts of things on television only reinforce that ethic of conformity. And I think that is really sad.
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posted
I agree. I think it needs to be reversed for the sake of a lot of people who go through life feeling inferior. It shouldn't be like that, we drown people this way. The larger society has to learn to accept different.
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posted
To play the other side, isn't demanding that all of society change to accomodate you considerably more unreasonable that society saying if you want to play, learn the game?
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posted
It's more like.. trying to find this middle ground... A person, even one that may have certain difficulties has to learn that certain behaviours are inapropiate and downright rude... But at the same time people, especially kids need to understand that some people are different, that bullying is unacceptable. Even if the person is wearing ridiculous clothes to school, it's bad manners to tease. Especially if someone just doesn't know the social rules... They ought to learn to be more accepting. So it does go both ways, the larger society has to learn to respect that everyone isn't alike and a person who is different should at least be polite, but not have to hide all of their differences. Does that make any sense? Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Syn, I agree. There's no place, reason or excuse in a civilized society for persecution because someone is different.
*thinks*
There's a difference between a lack of persecution and full-on participation in a community, though. Lack of persecution is largely a matter of leaving someone alone. Full on interaction in a community requires attention and accomodation on both sides. Where is the point of demanding too much?
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It's hard to say.. A person might be say, a nudist, but not everyone will want to see their hairy cubby body for various reasons. This guy could insist, but my body's beautiful and I hate wearing clothes, but the larger society states you should wear clothes, so you have to... even if it's hot summer. But, seriously, you could have a kid that is a bit, geeky, quiet, likes to stick to himself.... If the child likes to be solitary and is not hurting anyone, why should he be forced to socialize or considered abnormal for this trait? Especially since forced socialization can make him hostile... It's not an easy question because it depends on the circumstance. Plus a community to me would be stronger if each person could do what they do best and act in a way fitting their character...
posted
I think people should be themselves as much as possible. That means not conforming to the crowd, and it means not rebelling against it.
Wear clothes because you like them and how they look, not to fit in or shock others. Work with a good hairstylist to find a hairstyle that works for your type of hair, the way it grows, and the shape of your head/face. Ignore current fashions.
Don't involve yourself in things because everyone else is, but don't be afraid to embrace popular things if you're really interested in them.
Strive to be the same person no matter what company you're in, and make that person someone you like.
When you become completely comfortable in yourself, people will start imitating you...
[ March 04, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:When you become completely comfortable in yourself, people will start imitating you...
This I completely believe. That's part of the deal.
If you demand society's approval, it means either demanding too much, or else accomodating it's demands. It's giving up autonomy.
If you simply don't care about society, treat the individuals you meet with respect and concern, and do whatever the heck you want, you're not only much more free, but, irritatingly enough, you'll find that society conforms to you.
The big secret is that everybody's a little insecure (except Slash), and most people are drawn to strength.
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quote:To play the other side, isn't demanding that all of society change to accomodate you considerably more unreasonable that society saying if you want to play, learn the game?
Oh, I tried to learn the game. I tried to fit in by losing weight. All that got me was several months of sleepless nights because when I went to my doctor to get a diet, he just gave me a prescription for uppers (which were still legal then). I tried to fit in by not getting such high grades. All that got me was in trouble with my teachers. I tried to fit in by pretending that I was interested in what everyone else was interested in. All that got me was so bored I wanted to scream. The books I was reading were so much more interesting. But I was made to feel that there was something wrong with me because I wasn't interested in what everyone else was, and would rather read a book.
Thank goodness I didn't try to fit in by doing what all the other junior high kids were doing to fit in: smoking and drinking and using and sleeping around (yes, in junior high, in the late sixties and early seventies). Thank goodness I had enough of a sense of myself not to get sucked into that stuff, even though most of my friends (yes, I did have friends, just not very many of them and not the "right" ones, if you asked my parents or the school authorities) did most of that.
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I'm not talking about bad difference but just... run of the mill eccentricity But it depends... Gayness for instance is considered bad by some, a variation like left handedness by others. And how did they handle left-handedness in the past? Forced them to write with their right hand. After all, the slightest difference can bother people whether it's small or large. The thing is that if a person cannot play the game then some not all of the rules should be bent for them. It depends on circumstance.
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People don't generally like someone for ... their resume of personal qualities, although that doesn't hurt. They like someone for how that person makes them feel.
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