posted
For most of us, hanging out on a street corner with a cup of coffee never results in a gross intrusion of personal space, accompanied by stereotyping and an "attack of charity."
Unless, of course, you happen to use a wheelchair. I don't use one, but a lot of my friends and coworkers do. Diane does.
And for these folks, holding onto any kind of cup, no matter how full, while on the street entails risks most of don't experience.
The first time I heard of this phenomenon was from a friend who is a writer and satirist. He's had change plunked into his latte while hanging out downtown between meetings.
Another friend was dressed up in a suit and waiting to see a legislator - he was early for his appointment. Some person came by and tried to force a dollar bill on him. And she wouldn't believe him when he told her he didn't want her or need it.
In these two cases, the recipients of these "charitable attacks" handled the situation with humor (and not a little derision).
Sometimes, though, it doesn't get handled that way. People in wheelchairs have lousy weeks just like everyone else.
Just about a week ago, a coworker was holding her coffee on her lap out back and having a cigarette. Someone came by and threw change in her coffee. This person was already having a lousy week. She didn't handle it well - it kind of tipped over the depressed and lousy feelings she'd been feeling over a lot of different things. She'll get over it, but it's not something she needed to deal with - it's not something she should have had to deal with.
I'm trying to figure out why this stereotype has such power. I know there are disabled people who beg for a living (remember Tom Waits in "The Fisher King"). But lots of people do that. Why does it only generalize to people who have visible disabilities?
I mean, I'm pretty sure I could get dressed up in dirty clothes and hang out with a cup of coffee, and not one person would throw change in my cup - even though I can do a pretty good impression of someone who is destitute. But if I sit myself in a wheelchair, it's like I have to wonder if I need a sign that says "please give money to somebody else."
OK - this is kinda off-the wall and a little incoherent. But, hey, that's why they call it a "rant."
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posted
*Is glad my friends don't hold back because most of my disability is invisible*
Actually, I think right now I'd be thrilled if people started giving me change. I have made peace with not having any income for over 26 months. I would still like that condition to end, however.
It is nice to have some friends who will slip me a five or ten once in a while for gas money or give me rides. And a family member who pays my car insurance and internet service. I am thankful for that.
the issue is not about friends and what they will do to help (been involved in "pass the hat" efforts for disabled and nondisabled people alike). It's about the invasion of space and privacy by strangers who are motivated by their own set of stereotypes.
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posted
not even then (officially) (unofficially) I did have a guy who roomed w/ me for a bit because he didn't have enough money to live on his own. he had a tough time keeping jobs. My command though says not to patronize panhandlers. I don't give them much, but i do give my spare change. never more than a dollar. when I make less than minimum wage as it is, never give a whole lot.
as far as friends.....one of my current roommates in the service borrows money all the time. they keep screwing up his pay.
[ March 06, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Stan the man ]
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posted
Oh, yeah. I was only thinking of myself there. Sorry. I should have said first that I would understand the frustration and embarrassment when strangers do that. I wouldn't be pleased with strangers doing it because I was in a wheelchair, especially if I didn't need it or ask for it. And I'd be really annoyed about having germy money tossed into my drink, especially if it wasn't enough to go get another one. And I'd be furious at having to go get it myself.
I have been in a wheelchair temporarily (about 9-10 weeks) and use a cane to walk. I get embarrassed when people open doors for me or won't let me do it for them, and people (especially ones older than me) who get up from a chair to let me sit down. But I try to be gracious and express thanks.
I have been taught to ask first if someone needs assistance, then to follow their directions.
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quote:Oh, yeah. I was only thinking of myself there. Sorry. I should have said first that I would understand the frustration and embarrassment when strangers do that. I wouldn't be pleased with strangers doing it because I was in a wheelchair, especially if I didn't need it or ask for it. And I'd be really annoyed about having germy money tossed into my drink, especially if it wasn't enough to go get another one. And I'd be furious at having to go get it myself.
Hey, Rain/Dead_Horse,
no need to apologize. I think you described a lot of the frustration that people feel in regard to unsolicitied and unwanted "attacks" of charity in what you just wrote. That also goes for the comments you made later on about asking if help is needed and then asking what type of help it should be if the answer is "yes." I know people who have had their hands banged up by people yanking a door out of their hands while they were opening it up. The same goes for unsolicited pushes of people in manual wheelchairs.
Diane and I do OK financially - not great, but OK. So we do try to be alert to who might need a little extra - and help when we can in unobtrusive ways. It might mean paying for way more than our share on a group lunch order - and then refusing leftovers and offering them to others. Stuff like that. One does what one can.
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posted
It's just that I try to cushion the pain with humor. I can just imagine the feeling as someone drops a quarter and two nickels in my cocoa. (Kind of like the look on my sisters face the day my cockatiel flew down from the drapery rod and landed in her freshly made bowl of frosted flakes.)
One of the most annoying things for me is that I can't feel items I am holding in my hands, so I drop them a lot, and then I can't bend over to pick them up. When I do need help and it happens, I feel good.
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posted
I think the key point to remember, in this instance, is the motivation of the giver. The person dropping change into a cup is doing so to be kind. They aren't doing it to insult or to harm.
While I appreciate the desire to redraw the public perception of handicapped people as not being able to take care of themselves, I think getting angry at someone who is simply trying to do a good deed isn't going to help that fight.
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posted
I don't know about anyone else, but I've been taught from childhood that to remain sitting when someone older than you, or who looks like they have trouble standing is extremely rude. I give up my seat to be polite, I don't think I should be blamed for it.
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posted
Thank you, Blackwolve. I'll let you give me your seat. But if you were a frail-looking 70-year-old lady, I'd feel terribly guilty.
I would not give anyone spare change unless they asked for it. And then I might not, depending on how the request was made.
Once in downtown Chicago, a little old lady yelled at me that I was a rich b**** and should give her my money. Well, all the money I had belonged to my employer, and it wasn't much. She started waving her handbag and I just took off as fast as I could. I didn't know there were old lady muggers.
But on a bus trip across the US, there was a man with one arm that didn't work. When we stopped for meals, he would not get himself anything to eat. After watching him miss two meals and make no move on the next stop to get anything (nearly 24 hours), I asked him if he would let me buy him dinner, and I did.
Then he got mad at me because later he tried to get me to open some cheese and peanut butter crackers, but I thought he wanted to give them back to me and politely said no. I would have had to bite and pull to get the package open. But maybe he didn't have any teeth. I think maybe he was mad because he didn't want anyone else to know he asked me to open the package. Or maybe he was annoyed because he felt like he shouldn't be accepting help. Or because I looked like I'd probably be able to do it better than he would. I don't know.
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quote:I think the key point to remember, in this instance, is the motivation of the giver. The person dropping change into a cup is doing so to be kind. They aren't doing it to insult or to harm.
While I appreciate the desire to redraw the public perception of handicapped people as not being able to take care of themselves, I think getting angry at someone who is simply trying to do a good deed isn't going to help that fight.
Stormie, I'm pretty sure that nobody is suggesting that people are deliberately trying to hurt or offend. In fact, I think the unexpectedness of someone not appreciating one's nice gesture is what drives a good bit of the being miffed.
However -- and I am trying to puzzle this out clearly, so read this in the spirit it is intended -- this is an insult. What this means is that the person tossing change sees nothing but a disability.
Not someone who could be just having a cup of coffee, not someone who might just be resting a bit, but only a disability. Moreover, this is a disability which expects/demands charity from me. The gesture is as clear as saying aloud, "Obviously, you cannot be a contributing member of society. You are not even worth enough of my attention to see what you are doing out here, much less who you are." It says, "You are defined by your disability, and you will never be anything more than that. Not in my world."
But why then is it unsettling to have someone reject a handout? Isn't it just being nice, and shouldn't the person appreciate the nice part even if they resent the subtext?
I think the clearest analogy for most of us here would be to think about how we feel when a newbie tells us how Hatrack works, or maybe tells dkw what a Bible is, or explains to Bob_Scopatz who Skinner was, or what have you. We naturally get a little miffed. Not at the attempt to "help us out," but at the assumption that we need such help. That assumption speaks volumes about this newbie's version of their own status and who we are in relation to them.
Sure, it's kind of sweet when someone takes the time to explain what an amicus curiae is to a lawyer, but you can't blame the lawyer for getting a little irritated about being condescended to.
Take that feeling and multiply it by a factor of my whole identity as a person, rather than just a job or a set of experiences I happen to have. Whether it's conscious or not, this person has essentially told me exactly where I belong in their world and exactly what my place is in it.
Which -- being a disability and obviously begging for help -- is very far from even the minimal status of just a guy out for a cup of coffee. That's pretty harsh, even if it was not consciously intended.
posted
I understand what you are saying is what sndrake is saying. I reject the idea that the totality of giving aid to everyone must be seen within a conflict, hierarchical perspective of power. I understand that some people may feel that way--it's why a lot of men won't ask for directions, etc-- but it still doesn't mean that the giver doesn't just want to be kind and to do a good deed, and that if this is so, then that should be celebrated to some degree, shouldn't it?
Communication works both ways. While it is important for the giver to try and empathize with the person he is giving to, or communicating with, the receiver should try and do so as well. Just as it would be wrong to pigeonhole handicapped people into a box of neediness and inhumanity because of their disability, it would be equally wrong to see in a giver someone who views those who are handicapped in only a certain way, rather than just trying to do a good deed. Each person, the sender and receiver should work to see the other person for what they are.
I suppose, in the end, I would rather people do too much kindness to others, than not enough. Perhaps this is a straw man, but it's the way I feel.
I'm not saying sndrake doesn't have a right to be pissed off. No one likes someone else seeing them as inferior. I totally understand where he is coming from. I hope the world gets to a point where we can all see each other for who we really are. Until then, I'll take the kneejerk kindness versus none at all. Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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A CREDO FOR SUPPORT by Norm Kunc and Emma Van der Klift
quote: Throughout history, people with physical and mental disabilities have been abandoned at birth, banished from society used as court jesters, drowned and burned during the Inquisition, gassed in Nazi Germany, and still continue to be segregated, institutionalized, tortured in the name of behavior management, abused, raped, euthanized, and murdered.
Now, for the first time, people with disabilities are taking their rightful place as fully contributing citizens.
The danger is that we will respond with remediation and benevolence rather then equity and respect.
And so, we offer you
A Credo for Support
Do not see my disability as a problem. Recognize that my disability is an attribute.
Do not see my disability as a deficit. It is you who see me as deviant and helpless.
Do not try to fix me because I am not broken. Support me. I can make my contribution to the community in my way.
Do not see me as your client. I am your fellow citizen. See me as your neighbor. Remember, none of us can be self-sufficient.
Do not try to modify my behavior. Be still and listen. What you define as inappropriate may be my attempt to communicate with you in the only way I can.
Do not try to change me, you have no right. Help me learn what I want to know.
Do not hide your uncertainty ehind "professional" distance. Be a person who listens and does not take my struggle away from me by trying to make it all better.
Do not use theories and strategies on me. Be with me. And when we struggle with each other, let me give that rise to self-reflection.
Do not try to control me. I have a right to my power as a person. What you call non-compliance or manipulation may actually be the only way I can exert control over my life.
Do not teach me to be obedient, submissive, and polite. I need to feel entitled to say no if I am to protect myself.
Do not be charitable to me. The last thing the world needs is another Jerry Lewis. Be my ally against those who exploit me for their own gratification.
Do not try to be my friend. I deserve more then that. Get to know me. We may become friends.
Do not help me even if it does make you feel good. Ask me if I need your help. Let me show you how to better assist me.
Do not admire me. A desire to live a full life does not warrant adoration. Respect me for respect presumes equity.
Do not tell, correct and lead. Listen, support and follow.
posted
Stormie, if OSC-Fan started to explain to you how Hatrack works, would you mostly feel gratitude for her kindness? Why or why not?
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posted
I got your point. As I said, I understand why it sucks to be condescended to.
On the other hand, how would you feel if you needed help and people walked right by you? How would you feel if you were honestly just trying to be kind and nice and someone jumped on you for your act of kindness?
I don't think we misunderstand each other. Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Start here if you are interested in finding out another perspective. Norm is very articulate, and this is an article that grabs you from the beginning.
posted
Yeah, the "being nice" part is admirable. Probably being on the receiving end of it constantly would get on my nerves. Plus, you know, the best way is to ask whether and how to help.
After all, the person you are talking to would be the one to know. It's not like they are 3 months old and can't tell their hand from a hole in the ground.
quote:On the other hand, how would you feel if you needed help and people walked right by you?
Honestly, I'm not the one to ask. Just 2 days after being discharged from the hospital after open-heart surgery, I snapped at my husband for trying to push a cart of bricks for me at Home Depot. He was afraid I'd pop an important stitch (the actual surgery was only 6 days before). I was pissed at the inference that I couldn't do just fine by myself.
I also insist on carrying all the groceries when I can beat him to the trunk. Apparently, it is mortifing for a guy to walk into the building empty-handed while the woman behind him drags 9 bags with her.
I don't care.
I also move heavy furniture up and down flights of stairs by myself, even when I was in heart failure. This ticks my husband off to no end, so I wait until he is out of town.
quote: Plus, you know, the best way is to ask whether and how to help.
After all, the person you are talking to would be the one to know. It's not like they are 3 months old and can't tell their hand from a hole in the ground.
You are kind of pissing me off. Did you even bother to read what I wrote? I can see that you didn't, or else you would't have written the above.
posted
(Stormie! You flipped me off! Awesome. Just don't tell mack.)
I really am sorry for not communicating well. Perhaps it's just that I'm in a bit of a mood tonight. Regardless, it's my problem, and I extend honest apologies.
quote:but it still doesn't mean that the giver doesn't just want to be kind and to do a good deed, and that if this is so, then that should be celebrated to some degree, shouldn't it?
Yeah, it should. Like I said, the "being nice" part is admirable, but probably being on the receiving end of it constantly would get on my nerves. And it shouldn't be at all offensive if someone says "no thanks," but it still is (for me, too -- in fact, I get a bit pissy when people don't say "thanks" when I hold open a door. I wonder why that is.)
quote:Just as it would be wrong to pigeonhole handicapped people into a box of neediness and inhumanity because of their disability, it would be equally wrong to see in a giver someone who views those who are handicapped in only a certain way, rather than just trying to do a good deed.
I think I've been done good deeds to too many times by too many persons with ulterior motives to be unbiased here. Part of it was being dirt poor in a family with some wealthy members, but part of it was also feeling like an object that charity was being exercised on.
I used to work with a surgeon who was one of the nicest men I ever met. He married a widow with children, who then became his family. He was active in church and community theater, had an awesome sense of humor, and treated his patients with great respect.
Once he asked me what my favorite movie of all time was. I gave the wrong answer (doesn't really matter what ), and he spent an hour explaining to me why "It's a Wonderful Life" was the best movie ever.
He and his wife, along with about four other couples that lived nearby, would hold a "Wonderful Life" Christmas party every year. They'd bring together a bunch of good food and a huge pile of gifts, and they would "adopt" a poor family for that Christmas and bring them to the party to be showered with food and gifts. He glowed when he discussed this; I was appalled.
I thought about all the used clothes and leftovers that I'd been forced to accept from other people with a smile and a thank you when I was growing up. Didn't matter whether they were new anyway -- I didn't want them. And when I said "no, thank you," very politely I assure you, everyone in the room acted as if it were an inconceivable faux pas. I got a good spanking and a thorough talking-to after we got home.
But back to the surgeon, why did he invite the poor family over for the night and make them say thank you? Why not just anonymously donate the food and gifts on their doorstep?
And what would the reaction have been if they'd honestly, politely, and quietly said "no, thank you"?
He sounds like a great guy to have a cup of coffee with.
With Norm, it's best to have scotch on hand, Dewars, I think.
(I don't drink alcohol - so Norm gets to drink for two when we get together, which isn't often enough. )
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posted
CT - I read Hell-Bent on Helping last fall while I was researching pre-K and SPED integration. I appreciated that article immensely. I wish I could get a few more folks to look at it -
I was just thinking about how people DO assume that some people need help and then totally ignore people "begging" (no perjorative intent) for help - based on their own perceptions and beliefs. In my ideal world, there would be no poverty or homelessness - in the real world, there is, and I think people want to do something personally but oftentimes are not quite sure how to go about it.
And giving is a complex action. (We need some studies on that.) What is it that people feel and think in deciding to give or not to give. Why does someone hand money over to one homeless vet and not another? Why do people tend to give more money to homeless women with children begging, but not men with children? Do people really not understand that the dog this homeless person lives with provides warmth at night, as well as protection and companionship? Soory - Sunday morning maunderings.
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posted
Hi, Shan. Good questions. I don't have good answers, unfortunately. And I know I'm biased.
Thought this was interesting, though. It's Emma, Norm's wife, writing about how people react to information about what is and is not welcome.
(If the point of the gift is to make the life of the receiver better, shouldn't we be all about figuring out what it is that others really want?)
quote:Emma: When I tell people this story, or one of hundreds like it that centre around the deliberate or accidental insensitivity of non-disabled people, I am both amused and distressed at the reactions I get. "You have to understand," they say. I always know what's coming when I hear that phrase. I usually want to sigh when I hear it. Sometimes "understanding" is very tiring, especially when you "have to". "She didn't mean it," they go on. "She just doesn't know any better. In fact, she does it to everyone."
It's true. I actually do know that lots of people who do or say silly things don't mean to be offensive. I know that often they are just trying to be nice, or helpful, but operate out of a set of assumptions based in myth, misinformation or lack of information. And I also know that unfortunately, some people really do treat almost everyone (with the possible exception of those they perceive as more powerful...) with condescension and a lack of respect. I sometimes wonder if the people who listen to my stories don't think I know these things. Maybe that's why they feel that it's their personal responsiblity to edit my experience and provide me with a more "balanced" interpretation of events...
Have I lost my perspective or become unkind? I hope not. I do my share of embarassingly ignorant things. Most of the stories I tell are not without humour and perspective. I try not to blame people, or fall prey to "evil oppressor/victim" stereotypes. So why the knee-jerk reaction? How come the ten minute sermons on offering up the other cheek?
It occurs to me that there's more going on here than meets the eye. There's a message underneath the message. When people ask me to "understand" the ignorance and prejudice of others and swallow my pain, they're asking me to be quiet. They're saying, "It's not really like that. You're imagining things. You're overreacting. You're paranoid."
I guess I can't accept that it's OK for people to continue not to know any better. Silence and compulsive "understanding" never did much to challenge or change the status quo. [emphases added]
posted
CT, that ws the bit that got to me, too. It made me wonder what I've said that hurt someone else because I wasn't thinking. It's hard to look at life from another person's perspective, but after reading about Norm and Emma, I'm going to try to do just that.
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posted
S...I've held off posting in this thread for awhile because I had to examine my feelings and try to put thoughts behind them (or vice versa).
Here's what I think is going on:
1) There is a general dehumanization of people by people. I think this happens in major urban environments especially and may have to do with crowding, stress, in-built coping mechanisms, etc. But basically we learn to ignore one another. Physically ignore the presence of others long enough and you can easily lose empathy for their situation(s) whatever those may be. And I mean "empathy" in its true sense of being able to put oneself in the place of another person mentally and understand what their needs, hopes and desires are.
2) I think we all understand in the abstract that other people want pretty much the same things we do (love, security, happiness, to feel useful and wanted, etc.). But as the gulf between "me" and "they" widens I know that I feel less connection than I do to people who are like me. Does the pursuit of happiness mean the same thing to a 45 year old divorced guy who's just started dating someone as it does to a young boy, an elderly woman, a recent immigrant, and so on? I often find myself surprised by what people believe will make them happy. And that's just the stuff they tell me!
3) Physically apparent differences are more compelling and fixating than those that are under the surface. Thus the gulf between blacks and whites feels big, relatively speaking. The gulf between those who are wheel-chair bound, or blind and people who are able to walk (or have normal vision) is similar, IMHO. It feels bigger than it really is on a human scale.
4) People tend to put as much of their lives into automatic mode as they possibly can. I believe we humans are actually wired this way and it makes us easily the most successful species ever to have existed on the planet. It is our adaptability and our ability to "create new 'instinctive behaviors -- habits' on the fly that gives us so much control over our environments plus the ability to focus our limited resources.
Heck, I think 90% of us never pay attention to our commute from home to office. Something that would be completely captivating to just about any other species you'd care to think of...
So what does this all add up to? It takes effort to overcome the immediate, unthinking habit-driven reaction. That's trite.
What I think it really means is that anything or anyone that "violates expectations" is likely to get one of two reactions:
A) Completely ignored. Some of us are just going to be too absorbed in something else at the time the encounter happens to even notice what that person or thing is. Hence, the coins in the cup of coffee. They aren't doing anything personal. There's not a person there as far as they are concerned. Their attention is elsewhere. And they process the person in a wheelchair as a stimulus to be responded to quickly and efficiently using subroutine # xxxx.
B) A rude awakening. This is where there's a chance for learning, growth, etc. It may also be an unwelcome intrusion for the person who is the beneficiary of someone else's sudden realization that they are facing a real, live human being. I mean, it's not like you can expect people to think first and THEN ask questions when their curiosity is "up."
But, it can be a chance to educate.
Anyway, this doesn't really add much to the conversation, I realize, but I think it does make sense on a more universal level describing how humans generally operate.
Edit to add:
I just read through the thread more thoroughly. I guess I could be accused of doing exactly what Emma was quoted as talking about above. But I wasn't trying to invalidate anyone's feelings or educate on something everyone here may already know.
At least I don't think I was.
I was just trying to figure out why the dehumanization happens in the first place and under what circumstances it can be most easily overcome.
quote: Hence, the coins in the cup of coffee. They aren't doing anything personal. There's not a person there as far as they are concerned.
Bob, I think you are correct. I also think it's a problem.
And, as AvidReader said, I think it's worth examining the events and actions in our lives. It's worth thinking about this every once in awhile, even if we have to stay on autopilot most times just to get through the day.
This is why stories are so great, both the fictional ones and the personal experiences. We get a chance to see things from another perspective. Norm's writing really opened my eyes, and his words resonated with other experiences in my life.
I'm glad for that. I like that "being shook up a bit" feeling, and I like being better informed about the meanings my actions may have for others. After all, I really do want to make things better in the world. Knowing when I might act against that, albeit unawares, is a good thing.
*shudder And I'm thinking pretty heavily about what it means when I interact with other human beings and don't see a person. Yowza.
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This has certainly got me going back over my various automated responses (Skinner indeed!) and wondering whether the efficiencies in my life are the cause of annoyance in other people's lives.
And if so (and I'm sure it IS true), then I need to make some changes, so I'm very grateful for this thread.
I think my own default response is pity or admiration or some other thing that is neither useful or in any way emphasizes the other person's humanity. And I am started to get ashamed of myself just thinking about it.
My #1 biggest problem I think is my reaction to CP sufferers with severe physical symptoms. I know theoretically that behind the spastic movements and the wandering gaze, there is in all probability a very smart and interesting person. But there is, for me, a huge gulf between knowing that intellectually and acting like I believe it.
And that's my problem, not theirs.
I wonder, though, what opportunities I'll have to actually do anything about this. I mean, it's unlikely that I will go seek out people to interact with. But I can at least be aware of my automatic response and try to overcome it when I get a chance to meet someone who I might otherwise avoid or completely misunderstand -- or dehumanize.
posted
Yep, Bob. I'm right with you. This is exactly why I was so glad to get to know sndrake here at Hatrack -- although there is a lot more to Stephen than his advocacy work ( , irony there, eh?), he is skilled at raising provocative questions, and he knows a good bit more about these issues than anyone else I've met. (And, more importantly, he's a Buffy fan.)
I'm just greedy that way, about sucking all the interesting people into Hatrack.
So, the main points that hit home for me from "Hell Bent on Helping" were:
quote:Friendship between children is wonderful. However, it is not a big deal. If we commend and praise children without disabilities for their interactions with their peers with disabilities (either publicly or in other ways), we inadvertently make friendship a big deal and imply that all children are not created equal. We reinforce the idea that it is morally and socially admirable to "help the handicapped," and, thereby may remove the opportunity for equality and reciprocity.
Reciprocity and self-determination is necessary for dignity.
quote:Respect Personal Boundaries
Boundaries of touch that would not be crossed between kids without disabilities should never be crossed with their classmates with disabilities.
An unfortunate side-effect of tolerant or benevolent interaction is a tendency to treat the "different" child like a life-sized doll or pet, or a classroom mascot with whom the usual physical boundaries of touch may be violated. We must always ask, "Do the interactions between children in any way compromise the dignity of the individual with the disability?"
Why is it a breech of propriety for me to touch a stranger, unless they have a visible disability? I suspect we all are uncomfortable with being physically manipulated unexpectedly in ways we did not explicitly agree to. Yes, maybe someone is only trying to be nice -- really. But it still is likely to feel icky to the receiver.
And then again about reciprocity:
quote: People with disabilities tell us that it is easier to be ignored than to be patronized or seen as a "class project."
...
Although a majority of educators acknowledge that the rights of students with disabilities should be respected, there is an ongoing debate about whether reciprocity is really possible, and what kind of contribution is realistic to expect. "What," we're often asked, "can a student with a disability really bring to a relationship?"
This question usually reveals more about our own stereotypical views about the idea of disability than about the limitations of a disability itself. ...
Dembo, Leviton and Wright (1975), first identified a a societal tendency to generalize and make broad inferences about the nature of disability. They called this common phenomenon "disability spread." Specifically, "disability spread" is what happens when we extrapolate the characteristics we associate with the notion of disability to the particular individuals we meet. These perceptions are often based on stereotypes, and what we think we know about a particular disability....
For example, we are inclined to see people with disabilities as a collection of needs and deficiencies (McKnight, 1977). We are led to evaluate people based on what is missing rather than what is present. When our perceptions are based on stereotypical myths and misperceptions we will not see a real person with any clarity. [emphases added] ...
posted
Oh, good grief. This bit really says it all:
quote:Help outside the context of choice and self- determination is disrespectful. We all want to feel necessary. However, when our desire to feel needed is at the expense of someone else's sense of competence and autonomy, we commit a lasting act of injustice. People with disabilities literally spend lifetimes struggling to be heard. We must learn to listen. As Marsha Saxton (1985) wrote;
"All of those people trying so hard to help me...All of them hoping for me to ... do well, all wanting to be kind and useful, all feeling how important helping me was. Yet never did anyone of them ask me what it was like for me. They never asked me what I wanted for myself. They never asked me if I wanted their help. ...I do not feel entirely grateful. I feel, instead, a remote anger stored beneath my coping pattern of complacent understanding. People do the best they can to help in meaningful ways, I know. I just wish all the disabled children would say to their helpers: "Before you do anything else, just listen to me." (pp. 133 - 134)
posted
(sndrake, my sin of choice is Glenlivet -- neat, with just a spoonful of icewater to bring out the peat. )
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quote:our society still perceives those with disabilities as perpetual receivers of help.
It seems that our society perceives anyone not meeting the stereotypical definitions of success as "needing" something and then get lost in the muddle of deciding how to give or not give that help.
quote:As the children talk and answer questions, it is interesting to watch the interplay between the subject of the discussion and the girl to his left. She has one arm around his shoulders, and in the other hand holds a washcloth. She wipes his mouth repeatedly. At one point, he appears to lose patience and struggles a bit. One hand jerks forward. His friend seizes his and holds it still. He makes a noise of clear irritation, and attempts to pull his hand free.
And perhaps that is what is preying on my mind - it is this sort of interaction with people that drive me nuts. I observed an integrated classroom two weeks ago - and while I am hearing clearly from my colleagues that the method of instruction for the autistic child was appropriate to his needs, I really question what I saw.
I resent the implication that because this child is moderately autistic, he is expected to conform to a pre-K teaching experience that to my eyes did not respect his right to engage in free choice activities, in child-centered learning, and that he constantly had to be monitored for his own safety and other children.
The most contented I saw him was during circle time when he danced and wove in and out of the other children (who exhibited no fear or annoyance or revulsion - we could learn a lot from wee ones) and welcomed him into their ranks.
So, while the 3-4 year olds were unconcerned and happy, it was the adults that bothered me the most. To me, it seemed that the spec ed techniques being used denied this child the right to be honored in his needs and wants, that he was clearly expected to do very demanding and difficult tasks that he did not want to do, and that basic respect in SPED instructional methods is lacking.
Pardon me - I'm still processing our last two week's worth of monitoring ECE sites for work.
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Shan: keep writing about what you see that bothers you and why. Probably sharing stories and thinking about them is the best way to get a handle on this.
posted
Thanks, CT - I need to get a handle on it. I've actually been waking up at night grinding my teeth and/or arguing with myself about what I have observed. (sigh)
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I think a lot of the problem is a lack of familiarity. And I think the unfamiliarilty exhibits itself as discomfort. I know in the past, I've been uncomfortable around people with obvious disabilities. I haven't wanted to look at them for various reasons, didn't want to remind myself of the limitations of the human body and at the same time I was afraid that if they caught me looking they would think I'd been staring at them. I think a lot of that could be a reason why someone would walk past a person in a wheelchair and give them some money whether they needed it or not. People don't want to think about disabilities, and so when they encounter someone with them, they try to figure out the quickest way to get away, with the money being because the person feels bad about their reactions. I don't really know.
I think and hope I'm over most of my issues with disabilities. My roommate for the past two years has CP and uses a wheelchair, so I think I do a much better job of interacting with disabled people in general. I really do think that most of it was just getting to know my roommate and finding out what an awesome person he is.
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Sheesh. I go and post something from way out of left field and what do you all do?
You all go and have an incredibly thoughtful, interesting, and insightful discussion without benefit of my sage advice and wisdom.
I don't have a lot of time right now - I'm actually working on something today with a deadline. But I really appreciate the discussion here - from everyone.
One thing I know Norm tries to do with his audiences is to encourage them to identify with the experience of being devalued, marginilized, stereotyped. That is, he doesn't want people to go away trying to think back on all the times they themselves might have dissed a person with a disability - instead, he'd like them to think of times when something happened to them personally that made them feel that way. (CT has done this in the sharing of her own childhood story in this thread)
BTW, as far as I know, there weren't any opportunities in any of the three episodes I described for any kind of feedback or response. The people throwing change weren't interested in interaction, they were gone in a flash. And totally ignorant of the damage they left in their wake. Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I was wondering if I was going to find this. The following is a slightly edited (to try to maintain a PG rating) excerpt from The Fisher King.
In this excerpt, Tom Waits, in an uncredited cameo, plays a disabled vet who begs on the street. The following is an exchange with Jack (Robin Williams) a homeless man.
As much as I hate the logic put forth in this, I think it's one of the more brutally honest commentaries on disability and begging I've ever come across.
quote: (A passerby drops coin--it hits the ground next to the vet. Jack picks it up for him.)
Jack: Ass___. Didn't even look at you.
Disabled Veteran: Well, he's paying so he don't hafta look. Guy goes to work eight hours a day, seven days a week. Gets his nuts so tight in a vice that he starts to question the very fabric of his existence. Then one day about quitting time, boss calls him in the office and says: "Hey, Bob, why don't you come in here and kiss my ass for me, will ya?" Well, he says to hell with it. I don't care what happens, I just want to see the expression on his face as I jam this pair of scissors into his arm. [sighs] Then he thinks of me. He says, wait a minute, I got both my arms, both my legs, at least I'm not begging for a living. Sure enough, Bob's going to put those scissors down and pucker right up. You see, I'm what you call kinda of a moral traffic light really. I'm like, (robotically) "RED! Go no further! Beep beep beep beep beep beep..."
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Or maybe he was annoyed because he felt like he shouldn't be accepting help. Or because I looked like I'd probably be able to do it better than he would. I don't know.
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-- this is an insult. What this means is that the person tossing change sees nothing but a disability.![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
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Awesome. Just don't tell mack.)![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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