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Author Topic: Consider a being
BYuCnslr
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Consider a being. We shall call this being "God." Assume that this being is all-powerful. Can this God create a rock so heavy, that he cannot lift it?
Satyagraha

[ March 31, 2004, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: BYuCnslr ]

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UofUlawguy
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Yes.

But he wouldn't ever do it, because the moment he did, the above statement would cease to be true.

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mr_porteiro_head
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Your term all-powerful needs to be refined, clarified.

I'll assume that it means "everything that can be done, he can do it".

In that case, maybe. If anybody can do it, he can.

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Kasie H
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Best quote about God in existence (in my opinion):

quote:
"I refuse to prove that I exist," said God, "because proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing."

Douglas Adams, The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy


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Hobbes
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Hmm, a classic question.

I'll start off by saying that I don't believe in such a God, so my answer should, in no way, be taken as an explenation of that position, it's just a thought I had about it.

Let's take a God who is, by the strictest defenition, omnipotent. Should He say that 2+2 = 5 it would be true because He is more powerful than logic. He has control over all things including logic, and thus a statment like "A cicle has 4, equal sides" becomes true about something that looks to us, like a typical circle.

This being can create such a rock and lift it without any contradiction at all. Logic simply does not apply as He is superior to its rules.

Hobbes [Smile]

[ March 31, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

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mr_porteiro_head
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I think you mean omnipotent, not omniscent.
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Hobbes
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Indeed I do. [Embarrassed]

*Runs off to edit*

Hobbes [Smile]

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hugh57
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You've been listening to old George Carlin albums, haven't you?
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Mike
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*agrees with Hobbes*

After all, why do we consider logic to be the ultimate authority on everything?

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T. Analog Kid
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quote:
nonsense is still nonsense, even when we talk it about God
-- C.S. Lewis addressing the idea that logical impossibility can be used to deny omnipotence
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BYuCnslr
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Second question:
Consider a being. A being yet again by the name of "God." Being omnicient, omnipotent, omnipresent, "God" is perfect in every way.

With the fact that "God" is perfect in every way, erso God must be perfectly tasty. What does he taste like?

Satyagraha

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T_Smith
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Easiest answer to this question, IMO, is that those who care to know, should either:

1) get a girl (I'm out of luck in this category)
2) get a drink (not my preference)
3) get a life (ah, here we go)
4) in rare cases, get a banana

Life is made more simple when you can solve all the tough philosophical questions by wondering where the next banana comes from.
-Terry Pratchett

[ March 31, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: T_Smith ]

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T. Analog Kid
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Yellow Curry Chicken at Chow Thai ( a local Thai Resteurant)
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T_Smith
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For the record, God tastes like KFC.
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T. Analog Kid
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*wonders if T_Smith has a set of Fairly Odd Primates*
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Jeni
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quote:
With the fact that "God" is perfect in every way, erso God must be perfectly tasty. What does he taste like?
The reason Bernard should no longer be allowed into Philosophy classes.
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zgator
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<---has a banana in his lunch

Life is good.

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UofUlawguy
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Don't most Christians already know what God tastes like? Or at least all Catholics?
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Tresopax
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quote:
being yet again by the name of "God." Being omnicient, omnipotent, omnipresent, "God" is perfect in every way.
Once again, you should probably refine this. By "perfect in every way" I think you mean "perfect in every way it is possible to be perfect."

And it is not possible to be perfectly tasty.

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T_Smith
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What if God was laced with LSD?

::dogdes lightning bolts and heads to the temple::

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Ryuko
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How about this... Could God make a klondike bar that was too cold for even He to eat??
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T_Smith
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::hands Abby a banana::

There you go.

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Dagonee
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quote:
Can this God create a rock so heavy, that he cannot lift it?
You're really asking two questions here:

Is there a weight of rock too big for God to create?

Is there a weight of rock too big for God to lift?

The answer to both is no.

Dagonee
Edit: Of course, God can create a rock of any size and deny himself the privilege of lifting it.

[ March 31, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]

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BYuCnslr
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quote:

This being can create such a rock and lift it without any contradiction at all. Logic simply does not apply as He is superior to its rules.

This is a rather odd thought. And I'm not sure what to think of it, because we were supposidly given our powers of reason in order to use them, and to understand...but then if God is able to go off and defy everything that is logically possible...why give us reason at all?
Satyagraha

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Tresopax
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quote:
This is a rather odd thought. And I'm not sure what to think of it, because we were supposidly given our powers of reason in order to use them, and to understand...but then if God is able to go off and defy everything that is logically possible...why give us reason at all?
You are missing the point though: If God can defy logic, he doesn't need a reason to give us reason.

In fact, if God is superior to logic then any argument about him whatsoever is irrelevant.

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Dagonee
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The illogic is with the question, not the answer. We are given reason to use, yes. But if we misuse it it's hardly an argument against God.

Dagonee

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T. Analog Kid
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*sings* bananas, bananas, bananas, bananas, bananas, bananas, bananas, bananas...
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skillery
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quote:
With the fact that "God" is perfect in every way, erso God must be perfectly tasty.
Then god must also be:

perfectly round
perfectly flat
perfectly smooth
perfectly square
perfectly spherical
perfectly straight (perfectly gay?)
a perfect vacuum

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skillery
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quote:
Dag:

Is there a weight of rock too big for God to create?

Is there a weight of rock too big for God to lift?

Yeah, there's creation power and there's lifting power, and the two powers aren't necessarily connected.
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Dan_raven
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Have you seen the floors of heaven? They are spotless. If God isn't a perfect Vacuumer, he comes darn close.

Wouldn't it be easier for God to change the definitions of the words Heavy, Lift, Rock, then to create the rock to heave to lift, and then lift it. That may not make sense, but I get the feeling I'm on to something.

[ March 31, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Dan_raven ]

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Bob the Lawyer
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30,000 pounds...
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mr_porteiro_head
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Sure. Change create to mean think about, and then change lift to mean do nothing.
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Mike
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... of bananas
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celia60
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If God were a banana... would he make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich just to hit it with a baseball bat?
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zgator
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quote:
That may not make sense, but I get the feeling I'm on to something.

Did you mean to leave the word "to" on there?
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beverly
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I think God is logical. But I think that our logic is imperfect because the knowledge it is based on is imperfect and the conclusions we draw are imperfect.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my aways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

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aspectre
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Naw, God prefers simple solutions to physics conundrums.
In this case, first He could create a rock so heavy that He can't lift it. Then around that rock, He could create a new Universe in which He can.
CosmicEgg->BigBang, anyone? [Big Grin]

[ April 01, 2004, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]

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