I loaned Kat my computer, Gertrude- she's homebuilt by two friends of mine who are now on the other side of the continent and fairly inaccessible at the moment.
Gertie's always had an "attitude problem"- freezing up at inopportune moment, refusing to shut down, and even not recognizing software that was previously installed.
But she finally crossed the line last week. She chose to uninstall the ethernet driver and then she acted like it didn't exist and could have shut down internet access for Kat. Fortunately for us, Katie was around when modems were popular and she immediately hooked that up.
Well, last night we decided to wipe her (Gertrude, the computer) clean. Mom always says spring cleaning is important.
So, I backed up all the important files and I began to delete. Delete, delete delete.
I learned some interesting things last night: #1- never loan a computer to your little sister without explaining to her that you shouldn't click yes on every pop up. This computer was infested with spyware. (This wasn't Katie- she's smarter than that)
#2 One can begin fixing a fairly functional computer and end up with a paperweight by midnight.
Here's what I did: I cleaned out most of the spyware and junk programs. I deleted user files and programs never used anymore. Then I ran a program - Uninstall Windows 98 (yes, that's what's on it- it's the only legal OS I have)
This was supposed to revert the computer to a previous edition of Win98 that was on the computer. I've done this before with success. Instead it wiped the OS off the system. No problem- I pop in my Win98 disk and reinstall windows. I've done this a hundred times. Something went wrong. Terribly Wrong.
As the computer restarted it mentioned something about FAT tables in Sector 11. (I didn't pay too much attention to it. Now I realize that I should have)
Now when the computer starts up, it fully boots and then begins to open windows and I get a blue screen with a red box that says:
Nav Auto Protect Unable to initialize the virus scanning engine database files. *click ok*
Next screen is one of those horrible boxes: Explorer "This program has performed and illegal operation and will be shut down."
Then I get a green screen with my mouse arrow. If I press ctrl+alt+delete the close program dialog appears but empty.
I tried to reinstall windows twice last night and both times this is all I got in the final
So here's your mission: Tell me what went wrong. How do I fix this? I need several possible fixes as the computer is in Kat's apartment right now and will not be accessible until she gets off work.
posted
Oh heavens, the final plea may not be effective. Maybe we can whisper something about blackmail? I must have some kind of embarassing information on the gurus here. *searches brain* Dagnabbit.
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Um, I can still post from work, but I need the computer for school papers as well. It's so tragic.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
*whispers* If you don't enjoy Kat's post, she knows dirt on most of you, so help or she'll spill the beans.
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
It is possible that the FAT sector messege you got warned of some corruption of files in a particular sector on your hard drive.
The NAV error you gets sounds to me like your version of Norton Antivirus has been corrupted (it has lost some of its files) and so it's crashing at startup (when Windows tries to initialize it).
You could try restarting Windows in Safe Mode (meaning it doesn't load any other programs or extensions), un-installing Norton Antivirus, run a scan of your hard drive (to check for bad sectors) and possibly defrag your hard drive before attempting to reinstall Windows.
If it was my machine, personally, I would wipe the hard drive and start over (I absolutely hate trying to mess with Windows once it starts seriously misbehaving), especially since you said you have already backed-up all the important info it would be nice to start with a clean slate. Granted, Katie will then need to reinstall everything to get it up and working, which is annoying (and usually takes a day or so to do).
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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You killed your operating system and probably have some corrupted files on your drive.
Do you have a FULL version of the Win98 installation, or just a cheap "Install Disc" that came bundled with your machine? If you do, then I STRONGLY recommend that you simply FDISK the machine and start over from a clean slate and a completely new install, particularly since Win98 likes clean slates more than any other WindowsOS.
If not, you may be better off trying to actually get this broken installation working. To do this, try to log on in Safe Mode -- even in DOS, if you have to -- and run a CHKDSK. That should find and fix any bad sectors. Then restart and log into safe mode again, and disable all your startup programs -- including Norton -- in the registry. Restart one more time, this time in normal mode, and see if things seem okay. If they do, run your Windows install again, then reinstall your NAV and any other programs you care a lot about.
posted
I must agree. Re-format the hard drive (do a *full* format, not a quick one) and then install windows again.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
You'll need the Windows 98 boot disk to boot your machine from.
You'll need to delete the current drive's partitions, fdisk (yes, eff your disk), re-create your drive partitions, and then install Windows, etc....
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Eeek. Have you never installed an OS from scratch before?
This may be an adventure, depending on whether or not you have all the driver discs for all the equipment in your machine. Do you?
Do NOT continue until you are sure that, at the very least, you have the drivers for your network connection. If you do not, you will find that this whole process is agonizing.
posted
Honestly, no I haven't ever wiped a computer clean before. I watched as my friend installed the OS four years ago when we put together this computer.. but I was assisted by a friend who knew what he was doing.
I have all the driver disks.. I think.. *crosses fingers*
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Boot with the Windows floppy. Run FDISK. Delete all partitions -- UNLESS you have one of those computers with bundled software and an "Install" disc, in which case you don't want to do this. Create a new partition or two, depending on the size of your hard drive. Make one of those an active system partition.
Restart, again using the Windows floppy. Tell it to install Windows. It will ask if you want to format the drive; you'll say yes.
It will start the installation. It MAY prompt you to put in driver disks, depending on your equipment and your version of Win98. You'll also probably -- hopefully -- be prompted to configure your network.
Eventually, you'll come to a pristine login. At this point, you want to install the drivers for any piece of hardware you have that hasn't been properly detected. If you haven't already configured your network connection, do so and hop on the Internet immediately so that you can search for updated drivers for your hardware -- and Windows Updates. (Your computer is old enough that there are CERTAINLY newer drivers out there, but perhaps so old that they're no longer published on many corporate webpages; you might have to search a bit.)
Do NOT forget to visit Windows Update. If you do forget, you will soon experience a great deal of pain as your computer is raped repeatedly by evil aliens.
Once you've got all the Windows Updates and driver updates, install and update your antivirus software.
After this, you can start carefully installing the other software you want on the system.
posted
Storm's suggestion is a good one, actually, if you haven't already started wiping the computer.
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Is your Win98 computer "new" enough that it can boot from CD? If so, you might be able to run the necessary tools from the CD -- although I'm not sure; it's been a long time since I've done a 98 install.
posted
*looks at Stormy suspiciously* This isn't the same kind of fun as when you recommended I ask OSC which book of his he liked the least, is it?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Alternately, I have a pristine WinXPPro system -- an Athlon 800 T-bird with a Radeon 8500, a 60GB drive, and 512MB RAM -- that I would be happy to ship to someone for $350 + shipping. *laugh*
I've been wondering what to do with it, and Christy's not big on hanging onto stuff. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Oh geez, Cat, for crying out loud, I owe you accolades and thanks and chocolate and guys' phone numbers and about ten hours of listening and trying to be productive about WhatHisName. Also, $40 for the Bare Naked Ladies concert. Thank you, incredibly, for this.
And of course. Tell me when. I'll be home by about six.
Tom: I'm seriously tempted, but I think the next time I buy a computer, it has to be a lap top. Do you have an extra one of those? *hopeful*
posted
Mr. P: Story? If you mean the concert, we went to see Bare Naked Ladies last Thursday. It was lots of fun. I'm sorry. It isn't very exciting. They weren't selling CDs there, but that's as wild as it got. I think my days of dodging security are probably over.
posted
Do the chkdsk first, as per Tom's suggestion, then a scandisk if possible, then scanreg /restore and choose a date a couple weeks back. I don't think it will work since you actually reinstalled Windows, but what the hey.
My experience has been that FAT problems are normally because of bad hard drive sectors, but it's not always the case, so definitely chkdsk and scandisk if possible.
I know you can scandisk off of the windows 98 cdrom. I don't believe you can chkdsk. Not positive on the scanreg /restore. Dig around.
Leto/John L will probably pop in here shortly and give advice, too.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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It's because C is normally the drive letter that refers to the hard drive. When you boot in DOS, you start out in the drive you are booting from - in this case, your floppy drive, which is generally referred to as the A drive (the drive letter assigned to CD-ROMs depends on several factors - how many hard drives and other CD or DVD drives you have, for example).
I would suggest that you try Tom's and SS's advice first before you wipe your drive, since you haven't done it before.
posted
ahh... ok. I will commence the repairs this evening. I will begin with the suggestions that don't require reformatting. I will return as needed for more help
posted
I would suggest spending the $99 it takes to get XP Home. However, even that may not save the day, because Storm Saxon could very much be correct about a bad sector on the drive. However, I don't remember if Win98 has a chkdsk either, which would at least help you figure out where the bad sectors might be, and allow you to create a partition on the drive that doesn't include the bad sectors (only if they're in the beginning or end of the disk, honestly). However, it's hard to say without actually having it in front of me, since the already-mentioned symptoms have a variety of causes, not all the same.
Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Kat says hi! She says she'll miss y'all this weekend.
I fdisk'ed the thing. Windows is installed. It works SO much better. I should have done this years ago.
Now...i'm just trying to get it to recognize the modem...and ethernet card...and the floppy disk drive. Gotta find the RIGHT drivers. I have drivers...just not the right ones.
Any guesses on why it says I have a 5 1/2 inch disk drive installed instead of a 3 1/4 ? Any input on how to fix that?
Thank you all so much!
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Yes, as the computer starts up there should be a message to "press DEL to enter setup" you need to press the delete key. On the first screnn in the menu (most likely, if not tell what type of BIOS it uses, award, ami, etc..) Should be the floppy setup, it is probably set to the wrong type.
If you have any more problems, feel free to email me and I will give you my cell phone number if you want to call.
Posts: 2102 | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Tom, how fast is the Athlon 800? 800 mhz? I have a Pentium 4, and I'm not familiar with AMD CPUs. Now if only I could get another 256 megabytes of DDR ram and and better AGP card than a GeForce 2 MX. Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Go to www.bootdisk.com and download the "techw0rm" distribution. It's got the best tools you can hope to fit in 1.44MB.
Then please buy Windows 2000 off eBay or something. The 9x kernels floating out there should be listed as weapons of mass destruction.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
In general operation Athlon T-Birds are a bit faster than Katmai and Coppermine CPUs of the same clockspeed, significantly faster than Willamette (early P4's), and about evenly matched with Tualatin. They are much superior in floating point (games) unless you need double precision.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Heh. This is amusing, because my internet was all wonky last night.
But, for an update, yay! Computer is clean and generally working! Not really happy about multiple programs being open, but everything works! Thank you for your help. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Athlon XPs are not faster because of floating point calculations. That's an effect of them being faster, which is due to better handling of instructions per clock. But only in some cases.
Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I have no idea what you just said. Thankfully it doesn't matter, since no Thunderbirds were sold under the Athlon XP brand.
edit: now that P6 is mostly retired the K7 is the oldest x86 architecture in full fab, but lest ye doubt the FP power within, behold an oldie but goodie technique: more is better (warning: geeky porn) If that makes higher performance an "effect," I'll take effect any day, unless you can hook me up with a cheap Itanium2.
General operation in these modern CPUs, of course, has most to do with cache speed and branch prediction, hence the low ranking of Katmai (outboard half-speed cache) and the surprising performance of the Centrino (BPU backported by smart Israelis). I wouldn't be recommending this Athlon, incidentally, if it were the 1st-gen version (before the L2 was integrated on-die).
[ April 14, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Richard Berg ]
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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I think my days of dodging security are probably over.
