posted
I could use some legal advice if any of you law savy people would be willing to offer. Here's the deal: My mother hired a contractor to build a 2 story addition to her home. This was supposed to be started last October and finished by Christmas. So now it is April and there is only a frame up. The contractor has not been back since the day before Christmas (which he was making his men work) and keeps telling her, "We'll be there next week." Right. My mother has already paid them like 2/3 of the money promised, therefore they have little motivation to finish it seems. The last payment she made was, again, the day before Christams so that he could "pay his crew their promised bonus." I use quotes because I am starting to wonder about his honesty.
Furthermore, the addition was to be 12 ft. It is only 11 ft. The roof (again, only a frame) is pitched at the wrong angle and they didn't dig down the basement portion as far as they were suposed to...
I am just worried sick for my mother about this. She is a really kind lady that lives alone and I feel like these bozos are taking advantage of that fact.
So my question is: Is it time for litigation? Do we have any grounds? If it were up to me, I would ask them start over again from scratch. The wood they used has been exsposed to wind and rain all winter and it is not built to specifications. All we really want is for them to do the job they agreed to, but how can we force them to do it? Is half a year unreasonable to expect thm to have it completed? Any advice would be appreciated.
posted
It may well come to litigation, and it looks like you would have a good case. However, there are other things you could do short of litigation. I would get in touch with the State Contractors' Board, or whatever the equivalent is in your area. The builder is required to have some kind of license, e.g. contractor's license, and the office that oversees licensing also takes complaints and does investigations, and could take action against the builder's license.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Sounds like you shaould go talk to a lawyer, and see what he thinks. It doesn't sound like the contracter is acting in good faith to me.
At the very least, she should not pay him any more money, at all, just for the inconvience he has caused her.
And if the contractor hears from a lawyer, maybe he can fix the things he has already done wrong. That is if he is actually planning on doing the rest of the work at all.
posted
Definitely talk to a lawyer. Noticing problems like a missing foot of length early and not bringing them up can be construed as a waiver of rights to enforce that part of the contract. Assuming the contractor doesn't fix things immediately, I think the best option would be rescission, where she gets the money back minus fair value for any work and materials that don't have to be redone. You'd need experts to testify to the quality and condition of the wood.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if such a contractor doesn't have numerous code violations.
Again, she must talk to a lawyer, and should do it now.
posted
Talk to someone right away. These things must be noted and taken care of before the next phase begins.
What does her contract with him say as far as how payment is to be made? It sounds very, very unusual that so much of the money has been paid at this stage.
The contractor should only be paid as each stage is completed and inspected.
When we make a proposal (my husband is a plumbing contractor, a sub) we always spell out how much money is due when, and we do not get paid until the work done has passed the local inspections.
Keep in mind that during construction, when the sheetrock is installed the process is 1/2 done. So, if all you have is a frame, you're not even close to being done. The fact that she's paid out 2/3 of the total price already tells me this is a very unethical contractor.
My suggestion - fire this contractor and fast. Hire someone else to finish the work. Do what you can to get back the money she's already paid, though it will probably require litigation to do so.
Never, never enter into any agreement with a contractor without written proposals that spell out what will be done and what will be paid when. And never pay a contractor unless the work has been inspected. Always get a lien waiver from the contractor when you pay. If something's not right, like a foot missing on the framing, tell them they aren't getting paid until they fix it. And refuse to pay anything beyond the agreed upon price.
However, if the height of the ceilings wasn't in a written contract - you are going to find it difficult to enforce that.
I am saddened and sickened at the dishonesty practiced by the profession in general. We get a lot of jobs simply because we're the only plumber willing to provide written proposals! So many contractors don't want anything written down. That's a big ole warning sign, right there.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I could tell you it's uncommon, but it isn't. I also wish I could tell you getting your money back was going to be easy, but I fear it won't. You may never see any of it again. We have been a victim of this before, as a sub, we rely on the general contractor to pay us. We had one disappear with the job half-done, and then he declared bankruptcy. We are still trying to get the money back from the homeowners, by filing liens.
That's another thing - if this guy used subs, he may not have paid them. If so, it's your mother that will have to, the law supports the contractor on this by giving them recourse to recover their money from the homeowner. That's why lien waivers are so important for you to get, if the general contractor takes your money but doesn't pay his subs and then skips out like what happened to us - the subs will come after the homeowner to recoup their money. And you have to pay it, because if their lien is valid it doesn't matter if you've already paid the general contractor. You will wind up paying twice.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:The last payment she made was, again, the day before Christams so that he could "pay his crew their promised bonus." I use quotes because I am starting to wonder about his honesty
I doubt Your mother will ever see another dime of her money, Paladin.
You do not pay contractors so they can pay people anything. You pay contractors for work that is completed. No ethical contractor would ever make this kind of request of a customer. We have never, never asked anyone to pay anything in advance like that.
His bonuses are not your mother's responsibility.
This man is a thief, and I'm sorry to say your mom is a victim here. She can sue, but I don't like her chances. Sorry, I've just seen it too many times.
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posted
The only thing I would add is that it is best to write up your specs and then get competitive bids.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
My goodness Belle, I am even more concerned now! I do not know the whole situation but I do know that the reason so much money has been paid to this guy was becasue he claimed that he was stiffed from another job and the needed the money to pay his men for my mothers job now. My mother is a wonderfully sweet woman and I fear she has been too trusting here.
As to the specifics of the contract, I don't really know too much. I do know that my uncle, who knows a thing or two about this kind of thing, was involved. So I hope that she won't be held liable to pay this guys men if did not.
She did get competing bids and she went with this guy based upon affordability, guess that was a mistake. It is not like she just went with the cheapest guy though, and he did come recommended...
As far as just firing the guy, I am afraid she will not have enough financially left to finish the project. Guess I better start learning a thing or two about carpentry.
posted
Winning in small claims court is not that difficult especially from what has been described. But I have been told numerous times that winning is not the problem. Collecting is.
Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
As for their failure to comply to the specs, I beleive that it was all written out. However until I see the contract I don't know anything for certain. Mum is a pretty smart cookie, just too trusting , so I hope that she has most of this documented. I was not there for any of this stage however b/c I moved out like a month before. Now I wish I had been there
Thanks for all of your insights guys. I am going to give her a call this afternoon and try to press the ergency of the situation upon her.
Edited to add: FG, I hope is that easy, but I am afraid that this will just declare bankrupcy or something. So I would rather find another way to get this resolved. (Like a court order forcing him to complete the work himself, even if it takes a full year! I doubt things like that exist though.)
Another question for the lawyers. Should we, or could we, get the bank involved? I think that she took out a mortgage to pay for the exspansion. Dosn't that mean that they might have some interest in this aswell?
Affordability is never the best criteria for choosing a contractor.
I'm so sorry, I hope I'm wrong about this guy. I just fear I'm not. Anyone who would involve his customers in being stiffed by another - that's completely unprofessional! What business is it of your mother's whether his men get their Christmas bonus or not? That's HIS problem.
If you go buy a car from a dealer, would you pay them before you got your car, because the dealer said he got stiffed on his last sale?
I hate it when good, kind hearted people are taken advantage of - like I said - I could be wrong. But it certainly doesn't sound promising. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Another question for the lawyers. Should we, or could we, get the bank involved? I think that she took out a mortgage to pay for the exspansion. Dosn't that mean that they might have some interest in this aswell?
Again, you need a lawyer to tell you for sure, but I'm afraid not. If it's an equity loan, it was probably not lent with any particular object in mind (from the bank's perspective).
If the loan was actually a construction loan for which the bank has an interest, then they would not have allowed any money to go to the contractor until a corresponding amount of construction was in place.
posted
Dag is right - banks with construction loans are very strict about not releasing money unless all the proper inspections and lien waivers are in order.
When we built our house,they would send out inspectors to make certain the progress on the house matched what had been paid out.
If this was an equity loan, then the collateral for the loan is her existing house. They already have their collateral assured, so they probably can't do anything about it.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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By a friend or by a complete stranger? Either way, you should pay this person a visit.
Although I agree that you should talk to a lawyer ASAP, it might not be in your best interest to reveal that to the contractor.
Contractors are NOT afraid of lawyers. Many contractors deal with lawyers all the time. Giving him an empty threat of litigation will just give him time to hide his assets.
posted
He'll be less able to take advantage of others in the future if he were missing some teeth Did I just say that out loud?
P.S. Actually there are people who would then use that as begging leverage "I need a job so I can get my teeth fixed." I saw it on PBS, it must be real.
P.P.S. With all the single mothers these days, a female contractor would be a really good business.
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The thought had crossed my mind Pooka... But I was thinking thumbs...Lets see him hold a hammer with smashed thumbs...
And no, UofU, not I, I have actually been busy here at work until right about now. That's a rarity.
I do have an update though. Called my mum to pass on some of the advice y'all have been so kind to provide. She had talked to the gentleman today and he has committed to be there Friday and has now said he will not use much of the weather exsposed wood. So again, we'll see. I don't think I'd bet much on him showing up. She said she will consider taking legal action if he fails to show Friday, but that she is ready to conceed the missing foot just to get it done. Thanks again for all the feedback guys, and gals. Very much appreciated Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Contractors are NOT afraid of lawyers. Many contractors deal with lawyers all the time.
Yup. Very true. Most contractors I know keep lawyers on retainer, to help them with customers who don't pay, filing liens, etc. There are lawyers who do nothing but construction-type law. We got one.
So, yeah, a threat to sue doesn't usually phase a contractor.
Let us know if he shows, will ya? I hope, hope, hope it all turns out okay.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sorry, I've just seen it too many times.
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I do not know the whole situation but I do know that the reason so much money has been paid to this guy was becasue he claimed that he was stiffed from another job and the needed the money to pay his men for my mothers job now. My mother is a wonderfully sweet woman and I fear she has been too trusting here. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
, so I hope that she has most of this documented. I was not there for any of this stage however b/c I moved out like a month before. Now I wish I had been there ![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
He'll be less able to take advantage of others in the future if he were missing some teeth ![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
But I was thinking thumbs...Lets see him hold a hammer with smashed thumbs...
