posted
Would it matter if, rather than saying 'the Lord' commands us to do so and so, one instead said 'the Lady'? God changed to Goddess? What if I changed the name to Allah but otherwise followed all the biblical principles, or called Allah God but otherwise lived life as a good Muslim?
Does it matter specifially in your religion? For instance, I was reading about a nun on belief.net who had been abducted in, I think, Columbia, and ruthlessly tortured over a period of some days such that she now will not call God 'God'. Unless I misremember, I believe she does refer to God as some kind of feminine. Goddess, perhaps. I think from the interview her reason was that she had a hard time associating the mascualine as 'divine'. In any case, I gather that Catholics would have no problem not calling God 'God' but something else.
Interested in Hatrack's thoughts on this.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well on this I can only speak for myself, but basically I don't care a whole lot what God is called. However, there are a few limitations on that. For one, when I speak to God, I want to show respect, so any name that wouldn't stir up some respect in my would be bad (joke names, for instances, would not be high on my list). Second, is that I believe God is my Heavenly Father, so however much other people seem to think it's some how sexist for God to have a gender, I wouldn't use any female names for the Lord.
posted
I can understand that nun, though. I used to have a problem with male authority figures, so when I first approached God (or He me) it was in the form of the Christ child. It was only later through Him that I was introduced (so to speak) to God the Father.
I think God is willing to show different aspects of Himself in order to speak to His children in a way they can hear.
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
posted
Does that make Carrot Top the Arch-Angel Micheal?
I always saw him as Satan myself. I mean, add up the digits in 10-10-220--You get 6. You use that three times, and you get the Hotline to Hell-o. Well, since its Carrot Top, maybe the hotline to Heck.
Anyway, sorry for disrailing your thread.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:I think God is willing to show different aspects of Himself in order to speak to His children in a way they can hear.
Could this mean "Zeus" or "Ra" or "Odin" or "Nana" or...(don't hurt me) "Santa?"
I have always wondered about the godly lineage from our bear skin wearin' days to the "enlightened" monotheistic god. Did "God" the individual not exist until we created Him or were our foregrandfathers and mother just inane to worship trees and goats or the wiley and randy pantheons of old? Or were these aspects and however you find or name "it" "him" or "her" or even "them" good enough.
posted
I don't think it matters, because I don't think that the truly divine is limited, and I think names are limiting.
For example, My husband calls our dog (a stray we took in a few weeks ago) "Bitey". She snapped at a few strangers, very early in her stay, and Ron was going to take her to the Animal Shelter. But he couldn't, because she's such a great dog.
I don't like the name, but It will do the purpose of keeping new people at arm's length, so it has stuck. This dog is way better than that.
I happen to think of god as an infinite non-local organizing intelligence, or INOI, for short. *resists urge to post devil Graemlin*
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Who is a character placed into a Catholic fable overlaying an older Santa (admittedly Hogfather is closer to the original spirit of WinterSolstice).
quote:DAWN: Um, guys, hello, puberty? Sorta figured out the whole no Santa thing.
ANYA: That's a myth.
DAWN: Yeah.
ANYA: No, I mean, it's a myth that it's a myth. There is a Santa Claus.
XANDER: The advantage of having a thousand-year-old girlfriend. Inside scoop.
TARA: There's a Santa Claus?
ANYA: Mm-hmm. Been around since, like, the 1500s. He wasn't always called Santa, but you know, Christmas night, flying reindeer, coming down the chimney -- all true.
DAWN: (smiles hopefully) All true?
ANYA: Well, he doesn't traditionally bring presents so much as, you know, disembowel children, but otherwise...
posted
Actually, I don't think names are limiting unless either the person using it or the person called BY it lets them be. A name is, to me, sort of like a Dewey Decimal #. It refers a specific thing, and that specific thing can be great or small.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's the specificity that bothers me, though, since I believe God is non-specific. But I know that is a view that most 'racker probably don't share, so that's okay. Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Physicly speaking, a DistantExternalObserver Deo or since physics concerns itself with information and organization, perhaps DistributedExtensibleOpenSystems, Deos
posted
Actually my concept moves beyond a simple "godhead", so it was refreshing to see that view expressed. Posts: 1843 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
Any name we mortals give God is just our way of putting a finite handle on that infinite so we can use it in our lives and in our thoughts.
The only problem, short of the Old Testament Curse of not calling God by his "true" name unless you were a priest, is that the finite names we give God may have their own limitations that get in the way of our understanding. We limit what God can do in our lives by giving him a limiting name.
If we call God--Allah, then we may have trouble seeing him as the all loving God of Jesus. If we were raised in the belief of God as the jealous, vengeful figure of the Old Testament, then we have trouble seeing him as the motherly compassionate being that comes to mind when we say Goddess.
I do not imagine I know what God cares for or doesn't. What I believe is that it is more important for us to give God the broadest, widest names imaginable, for God is beyond imagining.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
Who is actually based on a real individual. Remember Saint Nick?
Are you saying Odin, Zeus or God are not based on real beings? Or are you saying that Santa does exist and does come down chimneys and...er...disembowels little children?
Santa is the pre-God construct that indoctrinates children to organized religion. Santa is the all giving father who lives above us in the North Pole and that we we have to impress in order to get his gifts at the end of the year. Or, replace "Santa" with "God" and "north pole" with "Heaven" and "end of year" with "end of life" and you have Christian primer, 101.
posted
I'm thinking the answer to this might depend on how specific your religion is. But for me, I wouldn't want to call God anything that refers to another god, since they are not all the same. Similarly, calling him by any name that belongs to someone else, or something else, changes the way that I see him.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that in one sense, it has no matter because it is truly important what is in your heart. But in another sense, it kinda does matter, because God should be seperated from limitations of gender and the such. I dissagree with Dan on the OT. If you read the hebrew bible (i never read it translated into the king james), God is refered to by his different names. Je(h)ova, and Elo(h)im. The former being used in situation where god is merciful, and the latter in cases where he is seen as a judicious. Btw, the hebrew bible doesnt call god a jealous god, but thats off topic. Basically what Im saying is that any name that limmits god, shouldnt be used. I have no problem saying Allah, as he and my god are the same. I have a problem saying Vishnu, and Zeus, or Buddah when referring to my god, for the obvious reason that those titles limit god to being a certain character that I dont believe in. Many people that I know have a practice of not even using the words "he" or "she" when describing the actions of god, but rather using the hebrew words: Hakadosh Baruch Hu, or Hashem (Meaning: The holy one blessed is he, and "The Name" respectively).
Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Je(h)ova, and Elo(h)im. The former being used in situation where god is merciful, and the latter in cases where he is seen as a judicious.
Actually, in a few cases the two appear to be used interchangeable. See , for instance, Moses' vision at the burning bush. Both YHWH and Elohim are invoked there in the same appearance.
Posts: 2689 | Registered: Apr 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote: Basically what Im saying is that any name that limmits god, shouldnt be used.
...which, by your definition, it does. If you only see God as "God" and not any other possible variation on that theme (Vishnu, Zeus, "Bob" and so on) then you are, in fact, limiting god. By saying god can be ALL those things and much much more is the opposite of limiting.
And sndrake, the reindeer are...er...angels? Wait, no, that is the elves (the helpers of God, the ones that do God's dirty work, etc.). Lessee...er...guys gotta get around? Needs a ride? Better visual than the flaming chariot that the angels sometimes ride down in.
quote: Not really. We have no way to impress God, and being good is decidedly not enough.
Oops...you CAN'T be a Catholic (or ex-, in my case). Asking for forgiveness (ala confession) each week to get on God's good side was a way of life when I was a wee lad...He knows when you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake. Etc.
Let's see...the symbol for not doing good in God's...I mean Santa's...eyes? Coal. Which, you know, burns. Like hell. And all that.
Why aren't all God's the same god? This goes to the whole "Does the Bible PROVE there is magic and other god's" theory. I mean, good Christians have been known to make fun of other religions (or ancient religions) for their quaint naivete (forget calling the pot and kettle thing). I mean, sheesh...would could believe in a God like Zeus...throwing lightening bolts, killing Titans, having relations with mortal women so that his son could walk the earth...wait a minute... What I mean is, God says in the bible don't worhip those other gods (as if they were real and a part of a political campaign not as if they were fake) or use magic (not because it isn't real but because it is evil).
Another point is, why are all those "false" or "fake" when they believed as ferverently as any modern believer? Or why is another current religion any more or less a legitimate lifeline to God than another? If the connection feels meaningful and spiritually hip, what is the big bugaboo about what people call God or Goddess or Santa.
posted
Taal, and the Jewish commentaries discuss extensively why both names are used there. (It's been over a year since we covered it in the class I attend, so I don't remember details, but I do remember it is a subject of debate.)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
They're different because...they are. No other reason. *glare* Don't ask questions, or you'll burn in hell, okay?
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't think it matters as long as you are praying to the one God. If you call God Zeus but mean it as one god of many, than that would be bad. As long as you mean the right thing, I don't see that the name matters...after all languages have changed over time. Of course calling him Dude, prob is not the best thing to do.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Oops...you CAN'T be a Catholic (or ex-, in my case). Asking for forgiveness (ala confession) each week to get on God's good side was a way of life when I was a wee lad...
posted
Depending on the group of people you're with, Stormy, it can matter a lot, be a mere nuisance, or not at all.
12-Step programs frequently espouse that the important thing is that the sufferer gain some understanding and humility that he/she is NOT the supreme being. Call IT doorknob, call IT goddess, call IT whatever you like, as long as you understand that you are not IT.
*Shrugs*
And just when you get that part figured out, the next hurdle will be whether or not God is one and the same with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or not.
posted
Why should God be all of them? The flip side of that question is true as well....
Because some religions are contrary to each other. Not just mutually exclusive, but the basic tenants are different, as are the goals/rewards.
If you religion says that there is one God and all others are false while another religion says that there are many, how can they both be true?
I don't think that humans, any humans, know the complete truth, so I don't really go for all the exclusivity I see in most religions. I don't judge people, at least not in spiritual terms, because I don't see myself as a fit judge. I don't see any of us as fit to do that, not completely.
I do make judgments about the world I see, on actions that hurt myself and others. Things I have some experience with. But while I hope that I have some experience with spiritual matters here in this world, I am not an expert. I am as a child, and I see all of us that way.
So when someone holds different beliefs, or is a different religion, I don't preach my brand of truth to him, because he is the right one...lol..
I like Olivetta's word: non-specific. If I were going to believe in God, it would be as a non-localized phenomenon. If God is supposed to be infinite...to call it a name or even give it a gener means puting finite things on God...thus destroying our understanding of it. In that way, all religions have got it wrong because they try and personalize the infinite.
I guess you could call God anything...as long as the name ment what you were talking about. So, you could call it Santa only if Santa ment the universe or infinity or divine or God or whatever. You can't call the Universe Santa because Santa already means something else.
So...you can call God by other words as long as they mean about the same thing.
[edit]I guess you could call God "Santa"...because santa means "saint" which in turn means "holy".
[ June 24, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, God doesn't say "don't worship other gods" and God doesn't say, "I would like you to meet all my other god pals...Hades, you go first." Fact is, people tell us that and we hope and pray that the one we pick is the right one...if there is a right one. Take away what men and women have said God is and you are simply left with what you believe it is.
When I was a wee laddy, I was secure in the fact that I had a guardian angel (term parents call him, as he was neither guardian or angel...just a presence) named Giant. I of course, like many, grew out of this immature thought and gave him the name Santa (the next make-believe being that watched out for me) and made my final transformation to God when I became a teen and adult. Then left it all behind and realized that I think I had the better idea when I was a wee laddy.
The magic of spirituality comes from the joy and mystery that we lose in childhood. If God is infinite, why does he or she have to be a he or she...why not he and she. Or a bunch of them. Humans as an organism aren't a single living creature. We are made up of gobs and gobs of individual cells that all are individual living entities. If we are so complex, why does a God figure have to be so limited...to what it seems around here is a stern, disapproving father who regrets giving the kids the keys to the car and now we will never be in his good graces again.
Which is cool, if that works for you. But I still miss Giant and Santa.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
Better visual than the flaming chariot that the angels sometimes ride down in. ![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
