posted
I know Hatrack has a pretty successful matchmaking record (and its very own matchmaker), but I have to admit I don't quite understand the internet relationship phenomenon.
One of my good friends is considering starting an internet relationship, but to me they seem nothing but trouble. My uncle was happily married with three kids until he started fooling around on the internet with this woman from Maine. He's now divorced his wife and is seeing a different woman, whom he also met on the internet. Is this healthy/good?
I also have another (bipolar & alcoholic) uncle who met a non-English-speaking chemical engineer from China over the Internet (don't ask me how that works) and they have since gotten married (she's his fourth wife). She now works at McDonald's. Sometimes my uncle works, sometimes he doesn't, I have no idea what sort of phase he's going through at the moment.
And then there's the actual logistics of the whole thing. I know the Internet removes a lot of barriers, i.e. first impressions based on looks, carriage, etc etc, supposedly distilling the emotional connection between two people....but I'm not sure I buy that. Meeting some Hatrackers in Washington was an englightening experience, to say the least. While I didn't get to spend tons of time with them, the people I met in person were utterly different from those I knew online (perhaps with the exception of Pixie, whose handle fits her personality to a t). Maybe it's the way I personally respond to people online....but I now know I will never, ever try an internet relationship simply because I was shocked at how different people are when they're hiding behind a computer screen.
Meeting Hatrack people in person was not a *bad* experience, and I don't mean to imply that my opinions of the people I met changed for the worst; they didn't. But even meeting them for those brief hours allowed insight into what they write here that I never even considered before. Yes, the internet allows you to be judged on your words alone. But those words are simply typed characters, and they look and sound exactly like the words of the person who posted before you. There is no inflection, no tone of voice, no facial tics, no nothing. Quite honestly, Tom D is an *entirely* different person to me now than I he was before I met him in person. I liked and respected the old Tom D, and I like and respect the new one...but I am continually shocked at how different the two are.
Anyway, that's the (possibly temoprary) end of my rant...on a practical note, I'm not sure what to tell my friend...but I'm also a little interested in how various Hatrackers handled this dilemma.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Of the two dozen Hatrackers I've met, none really surprise me. They've all done well putting their personalities into their posts.
They're certainly different, but not in a way contradictory to their online personalities.
quote:There is no inflection, no tone of voice, no facial tics, no nothing.
You totally learn to see them. Then again, I've posted 5x as much as you in a year less, so maybe I just spend too much time here.
I don't know what to tell you. I've dated a few women I've met online, and my relationships with them turned out no worse than other relationships. And I've saved myself a lot of boring dates that way.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Hah, Frisco, post count means nothing. Nothing I tell you....
I spend enormous amounts of time here, it's dismally terrible for my productivity . I just usually stick to the serious threads -- perhaps that's what's skewing my viewpoint -- so you'll find I won't have, say, 100 posts in the last post thread.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Well, I don't have any posts there, either. Nor any of the other post-whoring threads. But yes, most of the personality goes on in the less-than-serious threads.
I can see why nobody would want to date someone knowing only their political and religious preferences.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Hi. I guess the Internet is as good as any other way to meet someone. I am engaged to a nice woman I first met online. Our relationship is very strong and we've been together vor 2.5 years, already.
You see...I guess the Internet is not the problem with the people you quoted, but their (mis)behavior. They could have cheated their spouses using any other means.
Of course, your friend has to take some things into consideration before: first date should be in a public place (mine was in a Shopping Center), and it is always better if both live in the same city / area.
Well...that's it. It's good to be posting here, again. Hi, Hatrack!
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Meeting via the internet is new and gets a bad reputation, but in some ways its no worse than meeting someone in a bar or other "social" occasion.
The difference being, you don't get to factor in the physical aspects into the equation - but you do get a feel for their thoughts and personality to a certain extent.
And let's face it - the physical component is a reasonably important component in most relationships.
And as Eduardo pointed out, people who are going to cheat will find a way to do so regardless. The Internet may facilitate that because some people may find it more liberating because you can interact with someone else "safely" or from a feeling of security and relative anonymity.
Contrast that with the "I'm so shy I can't network" thread - and a lot of people rank social interaction with strangers as difficult or awkward.
So, is it a good thing? Eh - good, bad or indifferent, it's a trend of the future.
posted
I think the success or failure of friendships and romantic relationships created on the Internet depend on how 'themselves' people are online. Now, that's a pretty obvious statement to make, but it's pretty easy to edit one's personality (conciously or not) in an online setting. I think your uncles, unfortunately, probably did that-or their Internet-mates might have done so:(
But Frisco is right, as usual: there are some Hatrackers who are almost exactly as pictured and as they seem in this online setting. And not-so-ironically, I think most of the Hatrackers I've met are the ones who participate less in the 'serious' discussions and more in the 'fluff', with the various hot-button issue exceptions, of course.
Me, on the other hand? I'm the opposite...I wonder what that says about my own personality editing? *shrug* I've got no clue, really.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote: Quite honestly, Tom D is an *entirely* different person to me now than I he was before I met him in person. I liked and respected the old Tom D, and I like and respect the new one...but I am continually shocked at how different the two are.
I will definately agree with this statement, Kasie. Although I must say that I really really like the TomD in person, he's very nice; yet I really dislike the TomD on Hatrack -- he annoys me!
(hugs TomD so he won't take that wrong)
Farmgirl
(A.J., on the other hand, is just as wonderful and down-to-earth in person as she is on here. She is very WYSIWYG)
posted
I'm actually rather surprised to learn that somebody thinks I'm very different in real life. What I suspect -- and what I've observed -- is in fact the opposite: that I'm just as talkative and annoying in Meatspace as I am in cyberspace, and that this can be surprising to people who are comfortable with the anonymity of the Internet. When I say something here, it comes out without the "ums" and hand gestures and consequently seems both more formal and more absolute -- but my speech patterns are fairly close to the same. I just seem "jollier" in real life, perhaps because fat people are either inherently scary or jolly.
That said, Kasie, the problem you describe with "Internet relationships" is not inherent or exclusive to relationships started on the 'Net; the real problem is simply one of moving too quickly without getting to know the person well enough, which can happen for a lot of reasons.
posted
I've met several people in real life, and especially the first time, they were EXACTLY the same. It was eerie, it was cool, and it wasn't surprising because I was so new to the internet that I didn't know to expect anything different.
I've since learned to inhibit myself, and that means I am much different in person than I am online. For one thing, I'm "much nicer in person." It's almost a matter of how long they've been on - I wouldn't say anyone can know me now solely from online interaction, but at point, they were able to.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote: Quite honestly, Tom D is an *entirely* different person to me now than I he was before I met him in person. I liked and respected the old Tom D, and I like and respect the new one...but I am continually shocked at how different the two are.
Different in what way?
Regardless of pictures posted and posts written, I have certain opinions and ideas of many of the Hatrack Forum posters. I'm curious about whether my opinions of them would change upon meeting them in person. I know I portray a vastly different personality over the net than I do in person. I know this because I've always had such an easy time making friends in real life. It's never been a problem. I find it more of a challenge to get close to people online. I've never been able to really connect with anyone online. I’m curious about why I seem to have such an easy time in real life versus online.
My take is that when I speak in person you don’t notice grammatical errors and typos. Facial expressions help some people warm up to you and you don’t have the benefit of those online. Maybe some of my more annoying habits online would become immediately understandable once you’ve met me in person?
Posts: 3771 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I have friends who are on hatrack and who I talk to on IM, and for some of them I really dislike the person they are online, and yet we're really good friends in RL.
I think part of it has to do with the means of communicating on a forum. You don't have to respond to what someone says in order to be polite, and if you're upset you can communicate that without the other person seeing you crying.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:What I suspect -- and what I've observed -- is in fact the opposite: that I'm just as talkative and annoying in Meatspace as I am in cyberspace, and that this can be surprising to people who are comfortable with the anonymity of the Internet. When I say something here, it comes out without the "ums" and hand gestures and consequently seems both more formal and more absolute -- but my speech patterns are fairly close to the same.
o_O
Uhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Like, you know, I totally took this to mean, uhhm, "the only reason I seem different in real life is because I'm not a drooling, hand-waving moron like the rest of you."
posted
Count me as one of the people who thinks Tom is pretty much the same online and in person.
As for dating – really don’t think I would agree to go on a date with someone I’d never met face to face. I’ve never been on a blind date set up by a friend, and I don’t think dating someone I’d met online but never in person would be that much different.
However – before Bob asked me out we’d met in person three times. We’d actually spent more “face time” prior to our first date than some guys I’ve dated that I met the “traditional” way (school dances and regional science fairs). This is an “internet relationship” only because we never would have had those three in person meetings if we hadn’t already known each other through Hatrack.
Re-reading, that last part is not entirely true. I’m pretty quiet in person and take a long time to get to know someone. If we hadn’t already been interested in each other’s opinions and humor on Hatrack we might never have taken the time to get to know one another well enough to fall in love. And we already knew interests we had in common and had ready-made topics for conversation. Much less awkward than normal “getting to know you” conversations.
Summary – the Internet is one way to be introduced. It’s no better or worse than being set up by friends or asking out someone who catches your eye in a public space or social event.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Since I also met MY wife over the Internet, I'm inclined to agree.
----
Aja, my actual meaning was that, in real life, I AM a drooling, hand-waving moron -- so that while I speak in almost exactly the same way, it seems considerably less stilted thanks to all the drooling. So it was basically the opposite of what you thought. *grin*
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I was talking with Tom and I really think it is a personal carriage thing. There are many physical cues to conversation that are harder to distinguish from text alone. Also, the structure of a conversation is different online. I think I get a pretty good feel for people's personalities and I haven't been surprised by anyone I've met, but it is a different experience being with them than posting with them in threads.
On the other hand, we met online and had a good portion of our initial relationship through email. It was a great way to get through a lot of those "get to know you" type questions and I think we became closer faster because we communicated so well. We moved into "real life" meetings very easily, but I think, too, we both knew the dangers of misrepresentation online and were pretty clear about what we wanted from the relationship.
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Obviously, I talked with Tom too long while composing my post and let CT steal him away with flattery! Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
The funny thing, for me, is that the only person I've EVER met online who surprised me in person was Pixie, which was the exact opposite of Kasie's experience. *laugh*
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Tom was EXACTLY as I expected. So was Dana. I didn't have much of a mental picture of anyone else I have met so far, so noone has really surprised me yet.
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Maybe it sounds impossible, but I really don't remember having expectations of the Hatrackers I met. Maybe they just didn't post often enough to form solid personalities in my head? I am amused that so many people seem to have actually put effort into expectations of what people are actually like. We should have some sort of KamaCon "Was this person what you thought they would be?" activity. So very high school/frosh week/summer camp.
Now I'm wondering what kind of personality I project. Will I be a disappointment to people? Can I meet the impossibly high standard I've set for myself by being so deft and witty online? I want so dearly to be popular! ... to be loved *sniff* Whome shall I love? (Somehow, I don't think anyone is going to get this reference. But it makes *me* laugh. No, this bit in parenthesis isn't part of the reference)
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
This is one reason why I like to have the parties that I do. I have meet several Hatrackers and several members of Ornery. I like to put a face to a name and a personality. I have found book signings and the meetings to be a great way to do that. Of course I am a bit outgoing at these gatherings. My wife had to keep telling me to shut up and let the other talk at the last OrneryCon.
posted
Hmm. Maybe whether someone seems the same online as in person has as much to do with the person doing the perceiving as the person being perceived. I’m not a very visually-oriented person, so actually seeing someone doesn’t add much for me (or distract much, either.) I do get a lot from vocal tone, but with people from the Midwest I tend to get the tone right from their posts. Less so with people from other parts of the country. I tend to think that East Coast Hatrackers are a lot ruder than I suspect they really are – I don’t think I “hear” their tone correctly from their writing.
Funny thing on the not very visual – after Bob and I decided to date one of my friends asked me to describe him. I couldn’t. She asked me how tall he was. I didn’t know. She asked me if he was taller or shorter than I am. I couldn’t answer.
Now, recall that this was after spending over ten hours in his company, at least five of which were wandering around a renaissance festival side by side. And it’s not like we’re actually close in height. He’s a good half a foot taller than I am, but I have no visual memory whatsoever. Now of course, having hugged him, I know exactly how much taller he is – I have excellent kinesthetic memory. But no visual memory at all.
posted
See now, the accent thing is going to throw me off. All your words are spoken with my voice in my head. If any of you don't sound right, I'm likely to laugh. I apologize in advance to anyone from the south.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Because everybody else has been covering the differences between meeting people online and then meeting them in person, I'm not gonna touch it, different people will have different reactions. What I wanted to hit up on was:
quote: My uncle was happily married with three kids until he started fooling around on the internet with this woman from Maine. He's now divorced his wife and is seeing a different woman, whom he also met on the internet. Is this healthy/good?
In my experience, the internet doesn't change anything about that, I'm sorry but a person that is going to go out and meet other people and have an affair will do it no matter what. My mother had three affairs breaking my dad's heart multiple times before he finally just gave up. She didn't need the internet to do that. If someone is going to go out and cheat on their spouse, the internet isn't any different from meatspace, it's gonna happen. Satyagraha
Posts: 359 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Tom, I found you very different in person than online. More jovial, yes, but not in some fat stereotype kind of way. I don't see as much of your sense of humor online (and there's the fact that you've responded to me online maybe twice).
Jeff, you and Leto I found kind of different and kind of the same, like your real personality does come through online, but in person it is distilled into the warmth you show for your friends online, without the impatience you have for fools.
Eddie, Christie, Zan, Bob, Papa Moose, Ela, JaneX, Schlomo, Narrativium, and Leonide came across exactly the same way. (For that matter, so does OSC, and no, I don't mean that as a slam.)
I imagine I must come across the same way in person as I do online, but I guess that's not really for me to say.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I've never met any of you, and in truth, I really doubt I will. But as for myself, I think I come across very different. In person I talk alot more, and think (hope) I don't sound as harsh and simpleminded as I often read my posts here to be.
Although, self judgment is rarely unbiased.
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I am told there is a Hatrack function on or near DragonCon in Atlanta.
I'm debating whether or not I want to attend, but then I'm afraid of exactly what kind of image I have and what kind of image I'd be replacing it with.
posted
I'm not worried that I present a different image. I'm a goofball with no social skills online and a goofball with no social skills in real life. Ta daaaaaaa!
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Somehow I think I've already convinced myself that the person I'm going to meet is the same as the person I've known online, so I go in with the expectation of not being surprised. And I haven't been surprised yet. Different facets come out in person as opposed to online, but I always attribute that to the medium rather than the individual.
Except for Cor, who in an entirely indescribable way was different than I expected. Oh, and I think I expected Shlomo to talk louder, because he so often used all caps, especially in thread titles.
posted
I might agree with that too, but it’s not what I meant.
I was referring more to how we receive/process information. I don’t do well with visuals – so how someone looks will have almost nothing to do with my perception of them. Other people are very visual, so it will make a big difference. (I’m not talking about superficial looks here, I mean body language, facial mannerisms, etc.)
So if Tom is different online and in person, and that difference has something to do with body language, facial expression, etc, I would probably never notice it.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Except . . . well, I am highly visual, and while I have been occasionally startled by someone not looking like their picture(s), or the pictures in my head, I don't think any of the Hatrackers I've met in person are all that different than online. (Unless this is due to mental revision of expectations after the fact, which is possible.)
Except for the one who doesn't talk in person. And you know who you are. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
This is part of how I figured out why I suck at online mafia and and good at real life mafia--facial and body cues. I can't pick them up on the net but I can in meatspace. *shrug*
Of all the hatrackers I've met, I think Katie was the only surprise. She is fantastically nice and funny in person but online we clash when really, we're friends and we should be okay with each other. *shrug*
So, Katie was the only surprise, but it was a pleasant one.
And there are so many Rackers that I can't wait to meet...
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:I imagine I must come across the same way in person as I do online, but I guess that's not really for me to say.
You're pretty much the same online and off. The only thing that surprised me when I met you--and in retrospect I have no idea why it surprised me--is that you have the teensiest bit of an accent.
I used to think that I was much better online than in person--funnier, more eloquent, more outgoing. Then Ralphie left Hatrack and took my funny with her, and the recent lack of activity at sakeriver is making me realize that I'm not really all that outgoing online either. So I guess I'm pretty much the same wherever.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I don't think that the Internet is a good way to immerse yourself in another person, but I know people who have jumped in too soon IRL too.
I think dkw had a great point about how her and Bob's time on Hatrack helped them converse.
Now, as anyone who has met me IRL will tell you, finding things to talk about has never been a problem for me, not usually anyway ( ). But dates can be real awkward at first. If you already know that you have some things in common that can be a relief, and help get the ball rolling. It sort of takes some of the pressure of you, if you know what I mean.
But if your only contact has been on-line, then I think that things get a bit too hairy for a relationship. You have to really get to know someone before you trust them, and I find that a bit hard to do when I haven't seen them.
I have invited a ton of people to the WMASS Hatrack Picnic, and I am the one organizing it (with a lot of help from others )....but I haven't offered to put anyone up for the night in my home. I trust people I know from here, but I don't trust them that much unless I have met them IRL.
I have met Bok, and Myr, and Bob_S, among others, and I would not have a problem with one of them needing help, or a place to crash for the night; but I would be a little uncomfortable about letting people I don't know IRL into my house let alone entering a relationship with them.
On the other hand though, when I went to Boston to meet Bob_S, I didn't even think about how I would recognize him...I felt like I already knew him from here.....halfway to Boston I realized i didn't know what he looked like!
posted
Jamie has the coolest faces, whenever she's mad, confused, sad, whatever, just snap a shot of her face and you've got an emoticon. Jamie's cool.
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