posted
I've always loved the Olympics. Since I was a small child, (I remember watching the Los Angeles olympics... when I was 3!) I always have had a fascination for such a huge international event.
The more I think about it, however, the more I question the real philosophy underlying the modern Olympic games. Is it truly a revival of the games of antiquity? If so, then the basis must be humanistic - the glory of the perfected body above all. Is it a new manifestation of the world's democratic spirit?
Last night I watched a PBS special on "The Real Olympics," chronicling the ancient games and how they affect the event today. I was shocked to learn that two of the Olympic traditions we take for granted - the torch relay and the symbol of the Olympic rings - were actually conceived of and added to the modern games by the Nazis in 1936's Berlin Olympics!
The rings were "discovered" by German archaeologists at the site of ancient Olympia, and announced as the ancient symbol of the games. It was discovered later that they were fabricated and planted there. The torch relay, the Germans claimed, was based on an ancient Pagan fire race, but no links can be found between the torch relay and the original Olympiad.
Why does this bother me so much? I realize that as much as Hitler strove to tie his ideals of racial superiority into classical precendents, he was wrong. The symbols that persist today are not indicative of Nazi philosophy in the least; we celebrate the underdog and the effort of the disadvantaged even more than the triumph of the strongest. We have wheelchair participants carry the torch.
The Greek Olympics, however, were not about a spirit of equality. I would venture to say that their humanist ideals of the perfect man were closer to Nazi ideology than we'd like to admit.
I don't know what I think yet... what do you think?
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Hmmmm. Not sure what to think. But I don't really have anything against using these symbols "just" because of where they might have originated (the Nazis) There isn't anything about them now that affiliates them with that party or those ideals...
Most of people think of them as an uplifting symbol of unity of nations...
I guess this would be along the lines of those people who argue that we shouldn't wear wedding rings because those originated in pagan ceremonies centuries ago..... Even though it has nothing to do with why we use them now.
posted
Hitler was really into sacred shapes, runes, mythology and mysticism. His swastika was an adaption of ancient mystic runes of power. And as you said, he tried to link the classical with the third reich. The Olympic rings are another adaption of ancient sacred geometry.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Annie, I guess both the Rings and the Torch carried such a powerful simbolism (and let's face it. Nazis knew how to create powerful symbols) that they carried on even though they were created by the baddies (which nazis are).
About the "superman" question...every time I read about some athlete getting caught on anti-dopping exams, I think about the ones NOT CAUGHT and think if the Olympics today are really about democray and equality. Just watch how people cheat, lie and abuse their own bodies to be "the one". And we encourage them! Because we sponsor the "champion", not the second best, even if he tried harder.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Well, with symbols you can take them in either direction. The KKK took the symbol of the cross and burned it to symbolize hatred and evil. Does that mean Christians should no longer use the cross?
The fact that the Nazis introduced it, doesn't mean that it isn't now the symbol of everything you remember. That symbol is nowhere associated with the Nazis, except by historians. It's a good thing, I believe.
So keep on loving the moment when the chosen person brings that torch into the stadium to light the flame - I'll be watching it with you, I'm an Olympic junkie. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I haven't seen the special and I haven't heard of any such controversy.
But when all is said and done, both symbols are so intrinsically linked to the Olympics it would be nigh impossible to seperate them.
Just like the swastika will always be remembered as a symbol of Nazis and not it's other, more innocent roots. Wagner is also stained, but that's mostly for me.
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Nietzche was also stained, since the Nazis corrupted everything he said about the "Superman". Many people, even today, think about Nietzche as a Nazi or Nazi-like philosopher.
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What do the Olympics mean? And, more importantly, do they mean different things to different nations?
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Why oh why do so many evil empires have the best icons of unity and symmetry and classical coolness. And the best looking uniforms too...
Because to survive and become powerful, people like Hitler need to be damn good at propaganda, otherwise they would simply be thrown into the insane asylum. Sort of like social Darwinism in politics. More traditional politicians don't need those skills of propaganda since they don't have any real views to convince people of...they simply repeat the views of the public.
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I can see how Nietzche would be closely associated with the Nazis. One of my professors claimed that Nietzsche would have ben horrified by how the Nazis used his writings. I can't say whether that's correct or not.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I think that's correct. What makes a superman, in Nietzche's views, is his morality, the strenght of his psychic "self", not simple genetic combinations. To tell you the truth, Nietzche (IMHO) would find Nazis quite weak, since he was about the strenght of the "self", not the strenght of mindless domination.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I'm not saying that the torch and rings should be changed or replaced, but they're pretty much ruined for me.
I don't think that the creation can ever be completely separated from the creator. For example, the Wedding March is never played at Jewish weddings because it was written by Wagner. It's pretty, but why should Jewish brides walk down the aisle to the music of an anti-Semite? (Although maybe it was Liszt who wrote it - Wagner stole so much of his music from him)
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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How about "Windows"(TM)? It was created by Bill Gates. It means that, just because I don't like Bill Gates I won't like...oh, wait! I don't! Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I guess I can undertand that. There was a long time that I chose to not read any Frank Herbert because I thought that "The Godmakers" that he wrote was the same as the hateful anti-mormon movie of the same name.
But on the other hand, I enjoy reading Arthur Conan Doyle, and he was pretty anti-mormon. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Porteiro: Because of Arthur Conan Doyle I had a very dim view of mormons for a long time. (From 9, when I read the whole Sherlock Holmes, till 16, when I discovered one of my best buddies was a mormon.).
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Porter, I made the Herbert/Godmaker's mistake too.
If the Nazi supermen had actually accomplished anything at the 1936 games, it might give me pause. But didn't Jesse Owens kick butt?
It's really strange that they symbols were retained if they came from the Nazis. I guess that show will be on tonight (in Utah, I think) and I could check it. Is there any independent corroboration?
Completely pointless FYI: I don't like the wedding march, so walked down the aisle to "Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee"
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I walked to "Canon in D" because it was my favorite song at the time, and I was trying to be original. Well, ok, "The Star-Spangled Banner" is and was my favorite song but that didn't seem appropriate, and that was a little TOO original. Anyway, imagine how annoyed I was to find out that a lot of people had already done that first! Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Well, I've never heard of this before, but even now that I know it, I'm not worried about it. The torch and the rings are certainly not symbols of Nazism. Nobody views them as symbols of hatred or fascism or anti-Semitism or anything like that. Remember that Hitler also caused the construction of the Autobahn and the development of the Volkswagen.
I'm not concerned with such incidentals of Nazism. I think it's pointless to get worked up over the fact that some symbol that nobody in all the world associates with 'Nazis' happens to have been started by the Nazis. The associations aren't there, so what difference does it make?
I'm far more concerned with the attempt to reclaim older symbols that the Nazis stole and perverted so that nobody can now see them without thinking 'Nazi'. I think it's time that people recognize that Hitler didn't invent the swastika or the little square mustache. His taint needs to be washed away from these things. As long as we regard his symbols with fear and hatred, he still has power over us. I say that the Nazi associations should be removed from all symbols so that we can finally move on and put him in the past, where he belongs.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Apropos of nothing, at the recent wedding of two friends, they marched down the aisle linked arm and arm to the theme from Superman. That's what the groom wanted. That's all he wanted - the rest of the wedding was bride's. I thought it was just adorable.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I plan to walk down the aisle to Darth Vader's theme music. Yeah, that would go over real well. Actually, given that I'd also love to have the sermon/homily/whatever start out with "Mawwage..." I might as well make the whole ceremony a farce...
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:What do the Olympics mean? And, more importantly, do they mean different things to different nations?
The Olympics is ultimately about the enduring human desire to challenge and surpass the limits of our existence.
I get goosebumps everytime an athlete shatters a record that was considered unbreakable. Every athletic advancement is an affirmation of our limitless potential.
I am reminded of that Animatrix clip where a sprinter pushed himself so hard during a race that he broke through the Matrix by his sheer competitive will.
That is what sports is all about. /Nike Commercial
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I'm a bit more o_O about the newly remodeled Berlin Olympic Stadium, apparently in preparation for a new Olympic bid. The remodeling also includes central roof lighting remininscent of the RomanPantheon's Oculus.
I also remember that the German government couldn't tear other dark reminders of the results of Hitler's leadership -- the BerlinWall, Lenin statues, EastGerman frontier guard towers, etc -- down fast enough.
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U2 played in Berlin's Olympic stadium and Bono started goose-stepping across the stage. The Germans weren't so pleased with that.
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Just mentioning Nazis or Hitler doesn't invoke it. You have to compare your oponents to them.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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The history of the modern Olympic games is not much to be proud of. From terrorist attacks in the 70's to the Cold War battles that made up most of them until 1988. They used to run medal counts, Free World v.s. Soviet Block, on national TV. From the bribery scandals to the racism that was at the roots of the olympic committee that almost didn't allow Jesse Owens to participate in the Nazi games, and did kick off one Jewish member. There have been political comments and racial protests and drug taking and nationalism and commercialization.
It is an ugly history.
Yet underneath it all there is a striving, a purity that comes from the good athletes. This dedication and drive, this ethic of work and fair play has drawn too many leeches to suckle at its breast. It is this ideal of the athlete competing more against him/herself than against the competition, that is the true meaning of the olympics.
I thought, as a child, of trying to admit the nation of "No-Land" into the games. It would take athletes from any country that did not want to wave patriotic flags and represent, but only wanted to represent the sport that they excelled at.
Alas, that would take more money than I have to create.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I don't know...although I like the Olympics (and I'll sure watch it), I don't know if I believe in its purity anymore. I have an impression that sports, today, equals to business, and the Olympic Games are the biggest sport business in the world. I've seen too many backstabbing, drug abuse, money changing hands behind close doors...
Everyone will put up a nice show, I'm sure, but I guess the spirit is dead or dying. It may yet live again, who nows, but for now, it remains to be seen. Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I like to watch the late night coverage. That's when you get to see the "un-cool" sports like fencing, shooting, archery. The stuff that doesn't bring in the prime time dollars and you can be resonably confident the athletes are spending thousands of dollars on doping agents, because they probably spent everything they had just for the chance to come there. Where you can see the results of years and years of hard work trying to excel at something, and you can see the joy on the faces of people who are just thrilled to be where they are.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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You may be right, Belle...the 'uncool' sports mays still keep the spirit alive. Did not think about it, but you may really be right.
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