posted
Of course the Japanese were excellent on the high bar. But I couldn't shake from my mind that it was a Japanese judge that lowered the ratings of most release moves just two days before competition began. (I'm talking about men's gymnastics/high bar). The Japanese had all prepared flipping release moves, whereas the Americans and presumably the Romanians only found out with two days notice. I know the sport has to progress, I just question the timing of this ruling and the loyalties of the person who made it.
As we saw in prelims, their attempts to bring their difficulty up suddenly resulted in some very serious falls. I am reminded of the lowered vault scandal at the Sydney games.
posted
I felt so bad for that Romanian who fell and essentially lost the gold medal, he must have been devastated.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I thought about this a bit, Pooka, but I really felt like the Japanese did much better than the Americans overall. It probably wasn't right, but I think the results were still fair...just my opinion though.
Watching the Olympics, I rarely enjoy the American performances. I always feel like the asians and slavs look so much more natural doing those routines, and the Americans look like grizzly bears.
Consider the woman's floor routine:
A Chinese girl will do her flips and land on the ground with a "pat, pat, pat" but the American girls land with a "whump, whump, whump". It makes me a bit prejudiced.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I didn't get to see all the Japanese routines, only the high bar. And like I said, they were excellent. And I don't think it was the athlete's choice, just someone on their national committee decided that it would benefit the team to hold back the ruling changes until the first day of the Olympics.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
Tom? Does that mean that I'm prejudiced against Americans, and I only think they're more bulky because I choose to see them that way? I don't know what you're saying.
posted
pooka, where have you read about that change in ratings ? I've asked a friend of mine and she says she hasn't heard anything about it. I'd appreciate if you provided a link... (as I'm too lazy to search for one right now )
As for the Romanians, yeah, we took only the bronze medals, but if I remember correctly this is also the first Olympic team medal we've ever had in men's gymnastics. It's tough that Razvan Selariu fell, but that happens all the time, especially under pressure. Maybe in four years they'll do better. Maybe in four years the Chinese will do better. Who knows ?! In the meantime, there's the women's final, maybe they'll win there. Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
(Speaking as a half Asian who does not have a typical asian body) part of the creepiness of guys with Asian fetish is that the typical asian body looks somewhat child like. Of course it is fine for other Asians to like that body type, it's just odd for some 6+ foot tall blonde bearded guy to dig it. Is he really thinking "Now there's someone who will probably die in childbirth!"
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
It seems to me that sports like gynmastics, figure scating, etc. which rely completly on judge's decisions are not relly sports.
They are not sports -- they are demonstrations. True, they require amazing athleticism, but so does ballet. Ballet wouldn't become a sport just because some people judged it and gave gold medals for it.
Don't even get me started about chess as a sport...
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Tom? Does that mean that I'm prejudiced against Americans, and I only think they're more bulky because I choose to see them that way?"
Yes -- and no. I think you're prejudiced against Americans, insofar as you have been conditioned to think that "bulkiness" is less attractive in gymnasts. Me, I'm the exact opposite; I find the tiny, fragile figures kind of sad and pathetic, and much prefer the hearty "thump" and genuine athleticism of a larger form.
posted
I wouldn't say conditioned, Tom. I'm very thin, and so is my husband. It makes sense that I would find litheness more attractive than bulkiness.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
a link It doesn't talk much about the judge, but on TV they said he was from Japan, and a former medalist.
quote: One area: the high bar. Both Wilson and Jason Gatson had to change their routines on short notice because the head judge informed them he would not give full value to a particular skill.
They had to replace that skill with a release and catch called a "stretch Kovacs." That was the move Wilson was doing when he fell.
No. It doesn't MAKE you a bit prejudiced. It's merely symptomatic.
And as far as making me prejudiced, while I would say that nothing MAKES anyone prejudiced, I still think that my preference is for thin over bulky, and my appreciation for the asian gymnasts stems from that, rather than the other way around.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
pooka, thanks for posting that part of the article. The link you posted required signing up... Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, I am glad that the Americans were not the only ones who got short changed. It makes it sound at least a little less conspiritorial. Still, not telling others of rule changes until preperation was almost too late is at best irresponsible. At worst, it might still be a conspiracy whose motives are better hidden.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course the Americans weren't the only ones who were hurt. The important thing is that everyone was hurt except for ____. That is how the lowered vault horse worked at Sydney.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tom and I had a discussion about broad shoulders in the elevator. After swimming for so many years I definitely like them. (The infamous desk clerk was just a smidgen too scrawny for my preferences.)
But take a look at any of the groups that step up to the starting blocks and you will see that swimmers have an interesting combination of broad shoulders and lean muscle mass, that I much prefer to the gymnastics guys. I'm amazed at their physical feats but that much bicep doesn't do anything for me. It's just a little too much.
posted
I'm not entirely clear why the change was made. But I had the impression that the change was made because more difficult routines were not being given appropriate value. If someone's doing a much tougher routine than you are they probably should have the potential to get higher scores. The Americans didn't have to change their routines. They could have gone with the well practiced ones and just had a shot at less value but potentially gotten higher scores if there were less errors.
I saw the high bar competition. And I didn't think there was much doubt the Japanese team looked much more impressive than the American team. And the American team did quite well. It's the first time since 1932 that the American team has medaled at a nonboycotted Olympics. That's really cool in itself.
Posts: 872 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
True, but that isn't the point. The point is that you make those changes at the end of the season, not 2 days before the largerst compitition.
That wasn't fair to any of the countries, and the only team that wasn't hurt by it was the Japanese.
You don't let everyone pratice routinres for a year and then say "Oh, BTW, all the moves YOUR team is doing have just been reduced in point value because they aren't as hard as the ones Our team is doing, and we don't think that the moves OUR team is dionig are weighted properly against yours.".
Also, during the bradcast they said that the Japanese judge actually approched the Americans and told them that they wouldn't even be in compitition of a medal with the routines they had planned because of the new rule changes.
That means that they were told BY A JUDGE that is they wanted to medal they HAD to change their routines 2 days before the compitition.
It's too bad, the Japanese team probably would have won anyway, they were so strong on the bars, but now there are all sorts of questions about how they won, and how much notice they had compared to the other teams.....
posted
Ahhh, there's nothing like the Olympics and controversy, eh? We have the gymnastics fiasco, the americans protesting that medal in swimming (justifiably so), those Greek sprinters who were "in a motorcylce accident."
It's a shame, there have been some really impressive things already. The men's 200m Free was fantastic, for example.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the biggest controversy this year, however, is the lack of tickets sold. Historically Greece is a natural pick, but is it really viable today?
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think Ian Thorpe's swimsuit visibly traps air and therefore increases buoyancy, but everyone could wear that type of suit if they wished. I'm assuming.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I believe it was the 100m breast, but it might have been the 200m. The japanese swimmer kicked on his dive into the pool which is a no no in the breast stroke.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
And, yeah, false athleticism. The puny little people flip more easily precisely because, weight-wise, it's exponentially easier for them to flip. So they're doing quite a bit less work, and benefit only from someone's biased aesthetic sense. Which is, of course, why aesthetic events shouldn't be considered competitive sports.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, yeah, the dolphin kick. I saw that one. I kind of wondered at the time but figured if the judges couldn't see it, why bother?
P.S. On ticket sales/attendance, I don't think it is only the Greek's problem since the IOC and the media have spread so much rumor that they weren't ready.
posted
I think there's a reason they have made the rule that gymnasts have to be 16 the year of the competition. Though I don't know if that has really helped the potential abuses that elite gymnastics is prone to foster (mainly anorexia). P.S. I'll add here the drive to go back to elite competition less than a year after surgical correction of an injury during competition. Sure it's inspiring, but I'd feel different about a 14 year old doing it versus an adult.
quote:True, but that isn't the point. The point is that you make those changes at the end of the season, not 2 days before the largerst compitition.
Exactly. I remember when they made a change during the playoffs that took away one football team's (maybe the Bengals?) big advantage with their hurry up offense. It's unfair.
posted
And a lot of people, not just the US, are wondering if it is a conicidence that the Japanese team wasn't doing any of the release moves that were downgraded, or if they knew that the rules were going to be changed and prepared their routines with that in mind.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't think you can really safely say that it's unfair that some body types are better at other things than others. It's just fact. Taller people do better at many things, shorter, lighter people do better at others. If you're taller and medium sized, doing a sport that requires lifting your own bodyweight and flipping lithly across a spring floor probably isn't for you. On the other hand, if you're a five foot, one hundred pound person, shotput isn't going to win you any medals. It's not unfair, it just is.
Although I suppose you could divide Gymnastics by weight: "And here's the heavyweight gymnast from..." Seriously, what can possibly be done?
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
"That would mean then that more skilled swimmers have an unfair advantage, athletically speaking, since their skill translates into more efficient movement through the water, hence less work. No?"
No. Because skill IS work. Being small is NOT work, as it's not a deliberate achievement that requires any amount of practice.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, yeah, that was in '96 I think. There was some debate over that, I forget now if she was legally an adult. I seem to remember she was 17.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, but how much work is required to develop that skill in larger atheletes? I think that is what he was getting at.
Not that I completely agree, myself. There was a very tall (over 6') russian gymnist on tonight who was wonderful, and had won gfold in every event, just not that all around, in her career. And she won the world all-around too, just not the Olympic. So she managed....and then some...
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
