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As a clarification, in this context “impaired” means “literally knows nothing at all about fashion, picture someone who was raised by wolves, fashion-illiterate wolves”.
Things I don’t know: what is the difference between a suit and a Tux? Any of the terms describing a suit or a tux (things like “double breasted”, what, do I now have two breasts to cover when I originally only had one?) Anything else you can think of that I don’t even have the knowledge base to ask about.
I wear business casual to school, khaki pants, undershirt and a short-sleeve dress shirt (summer time). This is rather a sacrifice for me since I do have to bike to and from school, but I dislike the sloppiness of most of my cohorts in training so I do it. I have red hair, and umm… well I’ll go find a picture, but in general any suggestions for me? Like colors or styles? And if the latter, please explain what you mean because I’m sure I won know.
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A single-breasted suit has one row of buttons down the middle of the jacket.
On a double-breasted suit the front of the jacket overlaps, and each edge has a row of buttons with the buttonholes a distance (6" or so) in from the other edge.
A tuxedo is the most formal type of suit. It can be single or double breasted, is generally black, and the lapels are generally satin (a different type of fabric, that is shiney, so they stand out a little.) There is also tradtionally a satin stripe running down the outside of each leg of the pants... think marching band uniforms, but with the pants and the stripe both black, just a different type of fabric. Tuxedos can be single or double breasted.
Picking single or double breasted is a matter of personal taste. At your age, weight, and profession, if you were going to buy a suit you should probably go with single.
posted
Start looking at magazines for styles that you think will suit you..
A lot of red-haird guys have curly hair, if so, let it grow and thicken until you have something cool to work with. Don't underestimate the value of a good stylist. Keep trying until you find a good one, then stay with them forever.
As an example, this is a little extreme, but you get the idea. That site has an "interactive style selector" - it's incredibly limited, and some of the styles are just ass, but a good stylist will do something.
As for clothes, you need to find two or three distinctive styles - work, play and smart casual. Each of these styles should tie in a little with each other to let your own essential funk shine through. You need to train your eye to see these things.
For examle, if you like the cargoes style, get some funky cargoes that look like more than chinos with knee-pockets, find some cool light button-up shirts that have a decent size collar, roll up the sleeves to your forearm and put a funky short-sleeved T over the top and pull the collar of the shirt over the top in a deliberately messy fashion. Don't tuck shirt or T in. Make sure the T is only a centimetre or two below the top of your pants - short is good with T's, otherwise you look like you're hiding fat. The tails of the shirt should stick out lower than the T. The T itself should have a way cool print on it. Something abstract tho, not a brand, band or label. For shoes you should then get some cool flat-soled fashion runners. You can't run in them, but they look good.
Anyway. Just an idea.... the great thing about fashion is there's so many ways to look great!
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As far as colors, I agree with Elizabeth on forest green... in fact, any shade of green is going to look good on you. I'm particularly fond of a nice olive green on red-heads for formalwear. You should also consider purples. If you're comfortable with purple, it will really accent your hair and make your eyes stand out more than green would.
For school, since you want to be less casual than most students but are biking, have you considered polo shirts? They are a little more casual than short-sleeved dress shirts, but still look finished due to the collar and buttons, and might be more comfortable for your commute. They are inexpensive, come in a wide variety of colors and patterns, and while I must admit they are not my personal favorite look in the world they do look very nice and would be perfectly appropriate for school.
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Add: Do not wear black socks with white shoes(or, G. forbid, sandals), or with shorts, ever. Please. Not even when you retire.
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mack, I was shopping shortly after I got back from Chicago, and I saw something and it just popped into my head "That would look great on mack but she'd never wear it."
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I took apart my vaccum cleaner the other day ElJay, unfortunately when i put it back together I had two extra screws. But it was a Kirby and I was dying for it to break so that I could see what the inside looked like before I sent it into the shop.
Hobbes, Mrs. M is Jewish so make sure you bump this thread on Sunday cause I don't think she will see it today.
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It's slow enough this weekend I'm hoping no bumping will be required.
Thanks for the knolwedge and advice everyone. I'm not looking to go out and purchase a whole bunch of new clothes or anything, it's just something I'll have to learn eventually, better now than later.
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Sorry, Theca... But you'll notice I didn't really get a reply, either. Good luck with your dryer!
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Hobbes, sorry I'm so late to this thread - I didn't see it on Shabbat (good call AJ) and school started and I have been super busy.
I always like to start fashion advice with a disclaimer to keep things in perspective. Your good soul would shine through even if you wore plaid parachute pants and a tank top.
Okay, on to the fashion.
First, your colors are navy blue, dark royal blue (not bright royal blue), dark chocolate brown, cream, white, forest green, and gray. Avoid pastels and overly bright colors - they will wash you out. I'm not sure about reds - some redheads can wear them and some cannot. It's hard to tell from pictures. Unless you know for sure, avoid reds too.
If your hair is very curly, then you can either keep it very short (which I personally prefer) or you can commit to having it trimmed every 2 to 3 weeks to keep the shape. I highly recommend Aveda salons - they have a great method of cutting curly hair for men. I'm sure there's one in your area ( http://www.aveda.com/stores/locator_mq.asp?Country=USA ).
I would favor a somewhat sporty, yet sophisticated look for you. You are very, very young, so you can be on the casual side. I have a feeling that you would look really good in cords, which are huge this season. Try something very like these:
When it comes to pants, you want to look for a flat-front (i.e. no pleats) straight leg or boot cut, with a cuff that falls over the top of your foot. Pants with cuffs are more formal than pants without cuffs, btw. I would also avoid pants with a lot of pockets all over them. If you need them for work or school, try not to put anything too heavy in them - the pockets will stretch and it will ruin the line of the pants. Here's a great all-purpose khaki that has a nice, clean line:
I'm not a huge fan of short-sleeve button-down shirts. I second ElJay's polo shirt suggestion. They look plenty professional and give a better line. As the weather gets cooler, you can forego button-down shirts in favor of long-sleeved shirts and sweaters. Here are some examples:
posted
You've received great advice, but everyone seems to be neglecting one important fact -- you are studying to be an engineer.
There are many special fashion considerations for engineers.
For Example:
Pocket Protectors: yes or no?
This is a difficult call. Which is a bigger fashion mistake -- a pocket protector or a giant ink stain on your shirt. The clear solutions: skip the pocket protector and carry mechanical pencil instead of a pen.
Sock: White or dark?
White socks should be worn whenever you are wearing dark slacks and dark shoes. Dark socks should be saved for summer days when you are wearing shorts and sandals.
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Mmm... love the Tux. Men look so good in it. Originally it and the business suit evolved from the old uniform of the nobility. And Tux's have their own hierarchy of formality. The tales with the white bow-tie and white vest being the highest. Never understood why "black-tie" events are thought of as the most formal... when it should be white-tie... oh well. Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:I always like to start fashion advice with a disclaimer to keep things in perspective. Your good soul would shine through even if you wore plaid parachute pants and a tank top.
quote:your colors are navy blue, dark royal blue (not bright royal blue), dark chocolate brown, cream, white, forest green, and gray Avoid pastels and overly bright colors - they will wash you out. I'm not sure about reds - some redheads can wear them and some cannot. It's hard to tell from pictures. Unless you know for sure, avoid reds too.
Ohh good, colors are useful! Only... well I would describe navy blue as "darker blue", and dark royal blue as "dark blue", and bright royal blue as "not that dark blue", cream as "white, only with some yellow", forrest green as "dark green". I wouldn't begin to know how to describe pastels, though I do understand the meaning of "red". Except for the pastel thing, are those defenitions going to do it for me, or do I need to be more specific? (If anyone is schocked at my complete lack of knolwedge on any of these subject, I share your concern for my lack-luster state of fashion related knolwedge).
quote:If your hair is very curly, then you can either keep it very short (which I personally prefer) or you can commit to having it trimmed every 2 to 3 weeks to keep the shape. I highly recommend Aveda salons - they have a great method of cutting curly hair for men. I'm sure there's one in your area ( http://www.aveda.com/stores/locator_mq.asp?Country=USA ).
I don't much care for my hair being long enough to be curly, it's short and straight. My only transportation is a bike, and I'm not really one to get my haircut until I absoltuley need to. I'll just try and keep it short and straight.
quote:I would favor a somewhat sporty, yet sophisticated look for you. You are very, very young, so you can be on the casual side. I have a feeling that you would look really good in cords, which are huge this season. Try something very like these:
So how many years under 35 does each "very" represent? I tried cords a few years ago and found them very uncomfortable.
quote:When it comes to pants, you want to look for a flat-front (i.e. no pleats) straight leg or boot cut, with a cuff that falls over the top of your foot. Pants with cuffs are more formal than pants without cuffs, btw. I would also avoid pants with a lot of pockets all over them. If you need them for work or school, try not to put anything too heavy in them - the pockets will stretch and it will ruin the line of the pants. Here's a great all-purpose khaki that has a nice, clean line:
I wear Khakis, pretty much the way I bought all my pants followed this process: 1) Realize I'm desperatly lacking in pants that fit me 2)Go to Kohls 3)Buy every pair of Khakis they had that fit me and didn't look like I was trying to rebel against modern society via looking exactly like everyone I'd ever seen on TV rebelling against modern society. Normally that was 2 pairs of pants.
So now I have a few Khakis, all of them have numerous pockets (I like to have 4 pockets, especially because then nomrally the bottom ones can fasten shut which is good for biking). I wear Kahki shorts that exactly fit that description of pants.... except their shorts. I only wear pants to school though, since I am doing that whole buisness casual thing. [EDIT: so does this mean I'm pretty much hopeless and have to go do a whole new thing for pants if I want to look decent, or is this just something that's not ideal?]
About the cuffs, to keep my pants from getting caught in the chain I tuck both of them deeply into my socks, and normally just leave them there. I mean I know I look rather like the nerd from space when I do this, but how bad is it, in general terms?
quote:I'm not a huge fan of short-sleeve button-down shirts. I second ElJay's polo shirt suggestion. They look plenty professional and give a better line. As the weather gets cooler, you can forego button-down shirts in favor of long-sleeved shirts and sweaters. Here are some examples:
I'll defianetly look into the polo-shirt thing. Like Rabbit said though... I am an engineer, does this change anything? I mean I do put stuff like a pen in my front pocket, though I have not, as of yet, worn a pocket protector (my pens don't really leak, I don't have nice enough pens for that).
When it comes to long sleeve stuff, I'm not going to be able to wear any of it until it drops a decent number of degrees here due to the requiment of biking to school in it, but after that... The only big porblem with all this is that once again, I can only get around via bike, and there aren't really a whole lot of fashion outlets in my surronding area :-/. There is a mall, and I think I can catch a bus to that though so we'll see. Anyways, there's not anything you can do about me sucking in the transportation department so I'm just... well I'm done is what I am.
quote:About the cuffs, to keep my pants from getting caught in the chain I tuck both of them deeply into my socks, and normally just leave them there. I mean I know I look rather like the nerd from space when I do this, but how bad is it, in general terms?
Not good. Although it does make you look like a missionary.
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What kat said. Plus, if your goal is to look business casual, you just completely blew it. You'd be better off in shorts and a t-shirt than with your pants tucked into your socks when you're not actually on your bike.
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What is I wore a velcro strap to keep control of my pants leg? Biking without restraining them some how is very dangerous (finally, an area I have some knowledge about! ) and trying to un-restrain them every time I bike (which I do to get from class to class) is both a big pain, and something I'll likely forget.
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The velcro strap is much better. You just take it off when you get off your bike and put it in your backpack. In your current situation, that's probably the single most effective thing you could do to professionalize your look.
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Ah. I'd avoid Kohls then. They never have pants our size. I'd recommend finding an Old Navy nearby. Their prices are good and their stuff seems to run a little long. I bought a pair of their classic-fit "Super Khakis" and have been more than happy with them. They're just the right length (I'm also about 6'3 or 6'4) and comfortable.
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Oh, they were $20 too. I also bought them with a 34" inseam. I have a 35" inseam, which makes buying pants a royal pain in the arse, but these seemed to fit quite nicely.
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Of course my old questions still stand, but I have another one. I never button the top button on my "dress" shirts (not like a suit, but casual dress shirts). I have an overly large neck and a very powerful gag-reflex so I try avoid top buttons to the best of my ability. Is this normal? Bad? Really bad?
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It is not bad. It is fine. In my opinion, it is preferable. I think top buttons should never be buttoned unless one is wearing a tie, but I know a lot of guys like the look.
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Hobbes, for goodness sake, untuck your pants from your socks. That look is NEVER acceptable unless you are on your bike or your school has a severe rodent problem.
I'm with Primal Curve - Kohl's is not a good place to shop for clothes. Ever.
Good call on the button, though. It should be open, unless you have a tie on. A buttoned shirt with no tie, for someone your age, says (to me, at least) I'm a humorless narc.
Also, pants with extra pockets (cargo pants, etc.) are not business casual - they are just plain casual. This is true even for engineers.
If you ever find a polo shirt with a pocket, keep on walking. Try to avoid putting things in any of your pockets - it ruins the line of the garment (both shirts and pants). I have the pockets of my dress pants and khakis sewn shut, if they're not already. Is there some sort of tool belt that you can wear to hold all of your engineer stuff? DO NOT EVER WEAR A FANNY PACK. Seriously.
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How to properly restrain your pants for the bike ride:
(as cleverly deduced by Annie)
Pinch the side of your pants at the ankle, so it's totally tight and you're holding a little fold of fabric. Lay this fold of fabric flat against your leg, holding it there while you roll up the cuff of the pants twice. (depending on how loose the pants are, you may have to roll it more). Holds your pants away from the nasty man-eating chain quite well, and is less conspicuous than a big strap.
Alternate solution:
Buy a cruiser with a shiny chrome guard over the chain. True, it may have laughable gears and no shocks, but hey, you look cool. Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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For the business casual look, a messenger bag would be far superior to a tool belt of any kind. You can fit any manner of calculator, PDA, laptop, slide rule, pencil, pen whatever in the things and still look more professional than your peers.
I, too, do not wear anything in my pockets (outside of my work vest which always has a pocket comb in it to keep my hair looking semi-decent) because it makes my butt and thighs look bigger than they already are. Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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Ah, Annie recommends you do the tight roll.
While that's not a bad suggestion if you're dying to look like the New Kids on the Block, I don't think it will work for long if you're biking. The constant motion and flexing and unflexing of your leg muscles would quickly pull it apart.
Also, either way you're going to look like a goob. Let it be the lesser.
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I recently bought a messenger bag (3 years behind the trend, as usual), and I am a big fan. I ordered a Timbuk2 bag and not only is it perfect for the cyclist, but I ordered the colors to look like the French flag.
I am currently sporting it on my back, wearing black Gap long&leans, a studded belt and a white t-shirt that says "VOTE FOR PEDRO." Oh, and white Nike sneakers. i am a fashion Goddess.
quote: I don't think it will work for long if you're biking. The constant motion and flexing and unflexing of your leg muscles would quickly pull it apart.
Works for me. Then again, I'm almost always wearing jeans, and maybe the fabric works better.
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