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Mack, is he secretly teasing you about the Red Sox, so we are unable to dogpile his Yankee-lovin' bee-hind? Just let me know, Mack.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Ick, I just read your profile, and I see that you live in Celebration, FL. Are you serious? Why in the name of all that is holy would you want to live in a town run by Disney? Just thinking about it makes me cringe.
Posts: 1769 | Registered: Feb 2000
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um, because it is a beautiful house? um, because it has been an awesome investment, nearly doubling in value in three years? um, because I live in a great small town, populated by people who are enthusiastic about creating a vibrant community? um, because it's an awesome place to raise my kids? um, because the local schools are good? um, because I can walk to work or to the center of town? um, because I am less than five minutes from Walt Disney World? um, because I love Disney, because of their attention to detail, quality, and good service?
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Incidentally, the town is not run by Disney. It is currently run by a couple of elected boards, and will likely eventually incorporate. Disney planned the town, and is almost completely out of it.
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I do like the way Celebration was designed from the ground up to be a community. Not sure how well I would like it in real life, being something of an inveterate slob, but I do like the idea, anyway.
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Well Storm, it's not like we have laws forcing you to spend time on your porch or walking dogs downtown. I'm quite a slob myself.
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Really, do you have to cut your lawn in Celebration, or can you just let things grow as you please there?
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If you moved to Arizona, you wouldn't have a lawn in the first place. I don't think I've used a lawn mower in over ten years.
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Mack, Give him NOTHING. We Red Sox fans must bond together and be anti-Yankee at all costs. (AYAAC)
The Sox are going to kick the butts of the Yankees, and I will say so every year, no matter what happens.
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quote:There was a vacancy in his eyes and resignation in his voice. Pedro Martinez looked like a beaten man, not just the losing pitcher in a baseball game. The same man who said, "Wake up the Bambino, I'll drill him in the ass," the same man who came out of the bullpen in the 1999 playoffs with a tear in his shoulder and no-hit the Indians for six innings, the same man known to be one of the meanest, most driven hombres in the world with a baseball in his hand ... this was the same man?
It will go down in Yankees-Red Sox lore as The Daddy Speech, in honor of this highlight in Martinez's interview session after a 6-4 loss to New York on Friday: "What can I say? I tip my hat and call the Yankees my daddy."
There was more to it, of course. Martinez, speaking while seated in front of a packed room of reporters in a news conference setting, said he didn't want to pitch against the Yankees again: "I hope they ... disappear and never come back. I would rather like to face any other team right now."
quote:There was a vacancy in his eyes and resignation in his voice. Pedro Martinez looked like a beaten man, not just the losing pitcher in a baseball game. The same man who said, "Wake up the Bambino, I'll drill him in the ass," the same man who came out of the bullpen in the 1999 playoffs with a tear in his shoulder and no-hit the Indians for six innings, the same man known to be one of the meanest, most driven hombres in the world with a baseball in his hand ... this was the same man?
It will go down in Yankees-Red Sox lore as The Daddy Speech, in honor of this highlight in Martinez's interview session after a 6-4 loss to New York on Friday: "What can I say? I tip my hat and call the Yankees my daddy."
There was more to it, of course. Martinez, speaking while seated in front of a packed room of reporters in a news conference setting, said he didn't want to pitch against the Yankees again: "I hope they ... disappear and never come back. I would rather like to face any other team right now."
Better look out, Red Sux fans. Pedro's pitching tomorrow. Too bad you don't have anybody GOOD to send in.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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God, I totally forgot about the question I asked you. Sorry Icky.
Well, anyways, I've seen tidbits here and there about Celebration and I must admit it creeps me out. The whole idea just disturbs me. What if it sets a precident, and more and more land becomes carved up into corporate designer communities? I don't want to live in Tedturnerville.
It's more of a symbolic thing really; a sign of the dominating presence of corporate power in our lives. I don't see how I could live in the midst of all that.
Posts: 1769 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Um, most houses are built by development corporations. The only difference here is that there is a bit more planning in terms of total impact and creating a working community, rather than just cookie-cutter suburban sprawl. How is corporate power any less dominant in your life if some other national coorporation, like Pulte, Centex, or M/I Homes, builds your house?
quote: Well, anyways, I've seen tidbits here and there about Celebration . . .
This is what I am afraid of. There has been a lot of nasty, untrue stuff written about Celebration by wanna-be intellectuals who get a Pseudo-Intellectual Merit Badge for slamming all things made by Disney. Hey, it's just another coorporation. The only thing that separates them is that, frankly, they do a better job at a lot of things.
Link me to whatever you have found and I'll be happy to debunk it for you. I have seen websites with pictures of Kissimmee they claim are parts of Celebration, absurd allegations about our rules, our demographics, and our "phoniness." Then there was the NYU anthropology professor who spent a year living in town, giving our kids pot while writing his anthropological study of the primitives who choose to live here. There was even a song by a British rock band, who has never been to this town, or talked to anyone who lives here, but they're pretty confident they know what a bunch of mindless hypocrites we all are.
The fact that I haven't seen you speak out against some random development (after all, probably the vast majority of Hatrackers live in housing developments built by corporate builders) but Celebration is somehow "creepy" is evidence of the fact that you've absorbed some very untrue things about my neighborhood. (Did you do your own subcontracting on your house?) Either that, or there's an inconsistency here.
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So I'm watching the Yankees Game on YES, and they announce the Red Sox score, and the announcer says something like, "Boy, Pedro's going to have a lot of Daddies!"
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Hey, Icarus, have you heard of the book Celebration, U.S.A.: Living in Disney's Brave New Town by Douglas Frantz and Catherine Collins? And if you have, what do you think of it? I read some of it and then put it down and forgot about it (like I do with most books). I remember it being pretty interesting, and it portrayed Celebration in a positive light, I thought.
Posts: 104 | Registered: Jun 2004
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RRR, I am familiar with it, though I have only read a chapter or two. I would agree that it is fairer than the other books out there--I wouldn't specifically say favorable, but at least balanced. One thing I noticed about it was that it was written during the first year or two of the town's history, when its identity was still being crafted, and so there are a lot of things brought up that are no longer relevant, or at least not as relevant as they may have seemed in 1996. These include:
The extent of Disney's involvement: There are no signs saying "Disney's Town of Celebration" or any other obvious presence. Disney was not the primary realtor in town by the time I moved in, and it was never a builder of houses in the town.
The level of disaffection with the Celebration School: Most parents, as it turned out, did not want a cutting-edge/bandwagon-riding school. Whichever side of the issue you stand on, the parents got their wish. Celebration School went to a more traditional style, but more importantly, has been extremely successful by the measures that matter to the local parents, including FCAT scores. It has been an A-rated school for four consecutive years.
The disparity of prices between Celebration and the surrounding area: Celebration and Poinciana (a nearby community that is decidedly less pricey) marked the beginning of a flood of new residents to Central Florida. The "Four Corners" region of Florida (where Osceola, Orange, Polk, and Lake Counties meet) is, believe it or not, the single fastest growing region of Florida. As such, real estate prices have increased significantly, and Celebration prices are not so unreasonable when compared to prices of new homes of similar quality. Still, Celebration prices have kept a bit ahead of other prices, since it is an extremely desirable place to live. This certainly makes it hard to get into the town, but it makes it a great investment. We were not among the very first to move into town, but we were early enough that a lot of people weren't sure how this was going to pan out, including my in-laws. We smell like roses now, with a house that has increased in value over 60% since we bought it. Sadly, this does not put extra money in our pockets (!), but it is a nice safety net to know that we could sell this house and buy elsewhere if we ever needed to. Houses around me have sold within days of hitting the market for their full asking price. How the hurricanes will affect this has yet to be seen.
The prevalence of Disney freaks among those who moved to town: Honestly, the vast, vast majority of people who live here are not fans of Disney. The initial troubles with the local school did away with a lot of that. I am one of the very rare exceptions. The big reason this was supposed to be a concern, though, was that Disney fans are, of course, stupid. (Duh. How could you like that crap without being stupid?) And so, people like me were going to find swamps to drown ourselves in, like Florida lemmings, when the Disney name failed to prevent crime, or to keep litter off of the streets, or to make every kid a straight-A student. This gets mentioned a lot in stuff written in the first year or two, but really has not come to pass. This might have been more of a growing pain issue, along with a perceived artificiality that some critics complained about . . . as the town has come to be more "lived-in," a realistic view of life and of Disney have become the norm.
The alleged strictness of the rules here: I've addressed this elsewhere in this thread. It has simply not been my experience. It is also worth noting that Celebration is not a gated community--it often is mistakenly portrayed as one.
A lack of diversity among Celebration residents: There is legitimacy to this charge, in that Celebration is an upper-middle class (and up) development. But hey, affluent neighborhoods exist everywhere without being subject to the scorn and criticism that we get. We have a reasonable spectrum of nationalities represented here. African Americans are underrepresented, as they are among the upper middle class in general. There is a diversity of political persuasions and religious viewpoints. We have more diversity than is common when it comes to sexual preference (because Disney is the largest employer around here, and they have very gay-friendly human relations policies)--which made the Chumba Wumba song more galling in its patent falsehood.
quote: "Yes. It is true. It brings me great shame to admit it, but the Yankees are my Daddy. I never knew until recently because my father left my mother before I was born.
"The Dodgers, of course, are my mother, and I loved her as I love life itself. She was the most beautiful woman in the world; and when I close my eyes now, I can still see her dressed in the purest whites and deepest blues you have ever seen. She sacrificed everything to raise me and my older brother, Ramon. She worked in the fields until her hands were raw and her back ached, and yet she always found time in the early evening to teach Ramon and I how to throw a beanball.
"One day when I was six and Ramon was nearly 10, we asked our mother about our father -- who he was and where he lived and when he would come home to teach us how to throw sliders. She only told us that our father was a very bad man, and then began weeping. She walked into her room, closed the door and stayed inside for three days. She ate nothing and drank only the tears that ran down her cheeks. We could hear her sobs even when we turned up 'Welcome Back Kotter' very loud; and when she finally emerged from the room, she said that we were never to ask her any questions about our father again. I tell you, these were the saddest moments of my life until Grady Little left me in too long in Game 7.
"Looking back now, I suppose there were clues to my father's identity I should have recognized if only I had opened my eyes wide enough to examine them closely. But so much of life is a deception, is it not? Even now, many Red Sox fans think we are going to win the World Series.
"I once caught my mother opening a worn shoebox and pulling out faded black and white photos of her when she was a girl in Brooklyn. Then she looked at a photograph of her as a young woman smiling with a man in pinstripes. When she looked at it, she made a strange sound and I could not tell whether she was laughing or crying -- it was similar to the sound Red Sox fans make at the beginning of each October. I asked who the man in the picture was, and she quickly put the photos away. She said only that he was a rich man she once knew in New York, and that I should not sneak up on her anymore and should instead go outside and practice knocking down 72-year-old men with Ramon.
Pedro can't handle the truth. "My mother also had a beautiful ring she kept protected under the mattress. Ramon and I never were allowed to look at it closely, but she would occasionally take it out to slip on her finger. We could see that it was gold with a ruby in the middle and small diamonds surrounding it and some sort of inscription. We asked why she didn't sell it in the market so that we could move into a better neighborhood with cable TV, and she said it was all she had left from our father and that she would never sell it. I understand now that it is a World Series ring, though of course, I have never seen such a thing up close.
"My mother died just before I reached the majors, and I was always sad that she never got a chance to see me pitch. But worse was the longing I felt for my father. Whenever I would see Ken Griffey Jr. or Barry Bonds or Aaron Boone, I would feel such jealousy. Why did they have fathers in the game, and I did not even know who mine was? And why did they always hit so many home runs in extra innings? I would be so envious that I wanted to hit them all in the head with my pitches. And I usually did.
"And then I visited my old, beloved aunt, the Expos, in Montreal this summer. She said that she would be moving soon, she did not know where, and that I should know the truth about my father in case she never saw me again. She said that the Yankees were my Daddy and that though they were dishonorable and had treated my mother very badly by not marrying her and never once paying child support, I must seek them out and resolve our relationship, though perhaps I should have my agent phone first.
"It was painful to learn, but at least now I know the truth. The Yankees are my Daddy and I look forward to reuniting soon and getting to know him as a son should know his father, perhaps beginning next season if he will offer me a four-year, $60 million contract. Perhaps he will even take me to the World Series.
"But the truth about my father is not the most amazing thing I learned. No, the strangest part is what else I discovered.
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pssst... mack, Elizabeth... now y'all need to say something to defend your team's honor... you know, "Wait 'til next week!" or something like that...
(yeesh, it's sad when a Yankees fan has to offer help to the Red Sox fans...)
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