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Author Topic: Osama Captured?..The newest rumor I've heard.
Little_Doctor
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I haven't seen anything aobut this but I heard that the Bush administration found and captured Osama Bin Laden a few weeks ago. The "plan" is that Bush will release this knowledge to the public just before the election. I was just wondering how many of you had heard this, and what you thoguht of it?
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Morbo
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I've heard variations on this all year. Idoubt there is anything substanstive to it. "October Surprise" rumors abound in an election year.
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Sara Sasse
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I wouldn't be surprised to have seen versions of this rumor going back many months and without substantiation.

Can't speak as to the absolute truth of it, but I cling to my skepticism.

[Or, what Morbo said. [Embarrassed] ]

[ September 19, 2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]

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MrSquicky
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In the interests of consistency, this stupid rumor has been circulating for at least a year now. If the Bush camp does actually pull Osama Bin Laden out right before the election, then, yeah, it's at least possible that they really are that sneaky and conniving, but I rather doubt it. If Osama shows up captured any time soon, there is going to be some serious scrutiny itno the details of his capture.

Until that time, unless you can source this "rumor", it doesn't really have a place in serious discussion.

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plaid
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The New Republic had an article back in June or July, I think that's been the main reputable source about this sort of thing:

(you may need to register to read it, bugmenot.com account name = cowlick, password = hairbrush)

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904

quote:

This spring, the administration significantly increased its pressure on Pakistan to kill or capture Osama bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman Al Zawahiri, or the Taliban's Mullah Mohammed Omar, all of whom are believed to be hiding in the lawless tribal areas of Pakistan.

...

This public pressure would be appropriate, even laudable, had it not been accompanied by an unseemly private insistence that the Pakistanis deliver these high-value targets (HVTs) before Americans go to the polls in November. The Bush administration denies it has geared the war on terrorism to the electoral calendar. "Our attitude and actions have been the same since September 11 in terms of getting high-value targets off the street, and that doesn't change because of an election," says National Security Council spokesman Sean McCormack. But The New Republic has learned that Pakistani security officials have been told they must produce HVTs by the election. According to one source in Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), "The Pakistani government is really desperate and wants to flush out bin Laden and his associates after the latest pressures from the U.S. administration to deliver before the [upcoming] U.S. elections." Introducing target dates for Al Qaeda captures is a new twist in U.S.-Pakistani counterterrorism relations--according to a recently departed intelligence official, "no timetable[s]" were discussed in 2002 or 2003--but the November election is apparently bringing a new deadline pressure to the hunt. Another official, this one from the Pakistani Interior Ministry, which is responsible for internal security, explains, "The Musharraf government has a history of rescuing the Bush administration. They now want Musharraf to bail them out when they are facing hard times in the coming elections." (These sources insisted on remaining anonymous. Under Pakistan's Official Secrets Act, an official leaking information to the press can be imprisoned for up to ten years.)

A third source, an official who works under ISI's director, Lieutenant General Ehsan ul-Haq, informed tnr that the Pakistanis "have been told at every level that apprehension or killing of HVTs before [the] election is [an] absolute must." What's more, this source claims that Bush administration officials have told their Pakistani counterparts they have a date in mind for announcing this achievement: "The last ten days of July deadline has been given repeatedly by visitors to Islamabad and during [ul-Haq's] meetings in Washington." Says McCormack: "I'm aware of no such comment." But according to this ISI official, a White House aide told ul-Haq last spring that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July"--the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Boston.

The Bush administration has matched this public and private pressure with enticements and implicit threats. During his March visit to Islamabad, Powell designated Pakistan a major non-nato ally, a status that allows its military to purchase a wider array of U.S. weaponry. Powell pointedly refused to criticize Musharraf for pardoning nuclear physicist A.Q. Khan--who, the previous month, had admitted exporting nuclear secrets to Iran, North Korea, and Libya--declaring Khan's transgressions an "internal" Pakistani issue. In addition, the administration is pushing a five-year, $3 billion aid package for Pakistan through Congress over Democratic concerns about the country's proliferation of nuclear technology and lack of democratic reform.

But Powell conspicuously did not commit the United States to selling F-16s to Pakistan, which it desperately wants in order to tilt the regional balance of power against India. And the Pakistanis fear that, if they don't produce an HVT, they won't get the planes. Equally, they fear that, if they don't deliver, either Bush or a prospective Kerry administration would turn its attention to the apparent role of Pakistan's security establishment in facilitating Khan's illicit proliferation network. One Pakistani general recently in Washington confided in a journalist, "If we don't find these guys by the election, they are going to stick this whole nuclear mess up our [*******]."

Pakistani perceptions of U.S. politics reinforce these worries. "In Pakistan, there has been a folk belief that, whenever there's a Republican administration in office, relations with Pakistan have been very good," says Khalid Hasan, a U.S. correspondent for the Lahore-based Daily Times. By contrast, there's also a "folk belief that the Democrats are always pro-India." Recent history has validated those beliefs. The Clinton administration inherited close ties to Pakistan, forged a decade earlier in collaboration against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. But, by the time Clinton left office, the United States had tilted toward India, and Pakistan was under U.S. sanctions for its nuclear activities. All this has given Musharraf reason not just to respond to pressure from Bush, but to feel invested in him--and to worry that Kerry, who called the Khan affair a "disaster," and who has proposed tough new curbs on nuclear proliferation, would adopt an icier line.


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plaid
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(Thinking about this some more) any administration has the right to try to show off its accomplishments in an election year. I think it becomes objectionable when:
1) If something happens too close before election day (and especially if something is ANNOUNCED right before an election, if the event announced actually happened much earlier)
2) If the administration cuts corners in order to produce the accomplishment by election time.

Here's a similar issue to the capturing Osama Bin Laden thing... In Bob Woodward's book Plan of Attack, he mentions that Saudi Prince Bandar promised Bush to lower oil prices before the election. If I remember right, Bandar was quoted as saying that this isn't anything new, they did the same thing for Carter and Clinton, so that it's not just a pro-Republican thing... on the one hand, it's good to know that the Saudis are being friendly to whoever's in the White House. On the other hand, I don't like that kind of deal happening, and I wish the White House (ANY White House Administration) would be more upfront about that kind of thing ("My fellow Americans, as is their tradition, the Saudis are sucking up to us once again...")

(Later: here's the relevant link and quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/20/bush.oil/index.html

quote:
"I don't say there's a secret deal or any collaboration on this," Woodward told CNN's "Larry King Live" Monday. "What I say in the book is that the Saudis ... hoped to keep oil prices low during the period before the election, because of its impact on the economy. That's what I say."

The Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who appeared on the program with Woodward, said his characterization of Saudi policy was "accurate."

"We hoped that the oil prices will stay low, because that's good for America's economy, but more important, it's good for our economy and the international economy," he said. "This is nothing unusual. President Clinton asked us to keep the prices down in the year 2000. In fact, I can go back to 1979, President Carter asked us to keep the prices down to avoid the malaise."



[ September 19, 2004, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: plaid ]

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The Pixiest
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I hear CBS has all the documentation on this.
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Kwea
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LOL

No, but I trust Woodward more than Bush...

[ September 20, 2004, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]

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pooka
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Heh heh heh. Saw this in a recent post search and thought it would be a hoot to bump it. Seriously, if Bush did already have Osama, could there be a better day to announce it? Though he may want to wait until the Mt. St. Helen's media frenzy has died down.
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CStroman
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I heard the new rumor is that OBL is behind the Mount St. Helens eruptions and that he did it to destroy the WMD's that he got from Iraq.

It's possible.... [Wink]

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