quote:Republicans say filmmaker Michael Moore should be prosecuted for offering underwear, potato chips and Ramen noodles to college students in exchange for their promise to vote for John Kerry.
The Michigan Republican Party has asked four county prosecutors to file charges against Moore, charging that his get-out-the-vote stunt amounts to bribery.
Moore, a Michigan native, is touring the country and imploring "slackers" who usually don't vote to head to the polls this year, saying they could make the difference in the presidential race. He has made stops at three Michigan universities as part of a 60-city pre-election tour.
During each program, habitual nonvoters are invited on stage to pledge to vote for Kerry. First-time student voters are offered gag prizes such as clean underwear.
...
The GOP said Moore also offered students a clean dorm room, a year's supply of Tostitos and a package of Ramen noodles.
The GOP said it asked the prosecutors to charge Moore with violating Michigan's election law, which prohibits a person from contracting with another for something of value in exchange for agreeing to vote.
These people need to relax. Yes, it's probably a violation of the law, depending on what "something of value" means. No, it shouldn't be prosecuted, at least as long as it's just part of a stage show. This is exactly what prosecutorial discretion is for.
posted
I heard that on the news as well. I think it's a stupid assertion as well.
Yes it's against the law, but like you said, it's part of his flamboyant style and shouldn't be counted against him or any other person doing the same whether they be republican or democrat.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Besides, it's like handing him a size 18 boot and bending over with a "kick me" sign on your butt.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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But that's pretty much because I really, really don't like him. Oh, if only that were enough to lock people away. (Not if ANYBODY doesn't like them...but only if I don't like them.)
posted
I dunno...underwear, ramen noodles and potato chips? Giving those to college students is tantamount to giving a wealthy person a fancy new car.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
So heartening to see people addressing the important issues in a passionate, respectful manner. Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I don't know if he should be prosecuted, but honestly - offering to buy votes? That's not a vote of confidence in your candidate. That's pretty dang skeevy. For all the outrage about undercutting democracy, why make a mockery of even pretending to be principled? Why would he do that?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I have the problem with making people publicly pledge to vote for a certain candidate. Isn't there a reason we go to so many pains to make voting private? The underwear is neither here nor there.
And I also wonder about the policy of getting uneducated "slackers" to vote. Is this really what we want to promote? Rather than seeking out the politically ignorant and getting a pledge from them, shouldn't we be concentrating on informing the public and getting them to make their own educated decisions? Of course, that only works when you're promoting the democratic process...
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I think Moore really only wants his side to vote.
I see no reason why people should not be allowed to sell their vote. Anyone silly enough to support a candidate who will later oppress them deserves what they get.
Posts: 281 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Annie, that's a concept that's lost on so many...
I was on IRC's undernet #politics channel after the first presidential debate and there was a girl on there boasting that she had registered 3000 Kerry supporters. I grilled her about it. I pointed out that she should be registering anybody. She said she only asked Kerry supporters, but she would have given the form to anyone. I asked how she knew they were Kerry supporters and she said she went to an area where she knew they were all Kerry supporters. I made a comment about that being stereotypical to whatever area she went to. THEN she said she didn't go anywhere at all and had all 3000 people in her backyard. Mmm Hmm...
I know she's a private citizen, but I don't think ANYBODY should try to go out to register only one side. If you want people to go out and vote, it shouldn't matter who they vote for. I think it is like trying to fix the election.
posted
I think prosecuting this point would be silly, but the dark side of me would keep me from being anything but amused if they actually did prosecute.
posted
Hmmm...how low can he go...yet all but one on here have focused ENTIRELY on the offer of underwear. Why not mention the Ramen noodles? Or the potato chips? Whose mind is in the gutter...
posted
Hmmm...people that hate others who publicly support candidates. So I need to take my yard signs down? Remove the bumper stickers? Voting is private but choosing doesn't have to be. I am surprised that the Republicans are throwing fuel on MM's fire, too. That is just a bad play. Whereas not one misstep can stick to Bush, not one media fiasco goes by without MM making more headlines. I enjoy MM and his movies but geez...everyone knows the BEST way to get rid of undesired behavior is to simply ignore it. Celebrities LOVE to get taken to court. Woody Harrelson made a career out of it in his pledge to get marijuana laws changed...get arrested and taken to public court. It is like free advertising. I mean, compared to one 30 second ad on TV, court costs and legal fees are nothing compared to free news coverage. Sheesh.
posted
Whoah... I guess the Moonies have totally taken over editorial control of the WashingtonPost. The offer was "...a clean room, a lifetime supply of Tostitos, and a packet of Ramen."
posted
Personally, I just find that hilarious... Not because I support Bush... But because, who would accept a bribe like that? I mean c'mon!
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
What part of politics is not some form of bribery? From getting people to vote for certain canidates, to special interest groups, its what politics is really all about.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
That was my point: the underlying facts are deliberately distorted&misreported in a manner more in keeping with the WashingtonTimes than with any journalistic standard.
Look at the first sentence of the quote that Dagonee posted. Underlying facts, my tushiary regions. The article was meant to push a lie: it didn't even include that "a clean room, a lifetime supply of Tostitos, and a packet of Ramen" was a paraphrase/quotation from Moore's schtick.
Now tell me, is it plausible that Moore meant to fulfill or that anyone could believe that Moore meant to fulfill an offer of "a clean room, a lifetime supply of Tostitos, and a packet of Ramen"? Oh, I'll grant the 8cent packet of ramen is possible, but there was an "and". Do you think that Moore could purchase a lifetime supply of $3 per bag Tostitos for everyone who signed up? Clean rooms for every college student? Yeah, like he's gonna hire a maid to trail around after everyone who registers. Even the underwear was a pun for the purpose of getting some college kid to go up on stage and be the butt of joking. Gimme a break.
Lying via plausible deniability maybe acceptable in politics, but it ain't acceptable in reporting.
posted
"please tell me where it says he promised these things to every college student"
That is the point: the article doesn't. Which is a deliberate distortion of what is occurring at Moore's rallies. Changing theater of the absurd into plausible offers through wordplay is not reporting.
posted
He asks people on stage. He offers those people the underwear, tostitos, etc. At least, this is how I've heard about it from the two people I know who went to one.
You've made a great case as to why it would be ridiculous for him to make the offer to anyone. So why would you put such a ridiculous interpretation on the story which specifically says:
quote:During each program, habitual nonvoters are invited on stage to pledge to vote for Kerry. First-time student voters are offered gag prizes such as clean underwear.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you called a reporter who at worst made a careless mistake in not clarifying things to your liking a cultist, even though the facts as presented in the story are accurate.
What's it like to live in a world where everything you disagree with is a sinister conspiracy? I've heard they have pills for that.
posted
You should take some. You're the one who sees conspiracy talk everytime someone points out an obvious foul-up which doesn't agree with your agenda.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I am still stymied that the Republicans bit. I read on Moore'a page a bit more about it. He put it like this...he asked people up to the stage who didn't vote in the last election but could have. If they register, he gives them a three-pack of underwear, some doritos and a package of Ramen noodles. There. And a slacker is now registered to vote. That person can vote any way he likes, as the choice wasn't made for him. And it isn't like the audience is filled with Bush people just there to register to vote...which is, let's face it, why the Republicans are so desperate. There have been gigantic get out the vote drives and Moore, who may just be overestimating (I mean, he is Mr. Moore), says they have registered a record number of voters nearly 100,000. Which is a pretty big freaking deal if you are Republicans and know that, chances are, those votes are not for Bush.
Moore isn't the only one. ACT has been in Ohio registering folks to vote like crazy and are having a similar impact. The thing I keep hearing is that Republicans are loyal voters and are already registerd. It is the "Slacker Tour" of Moore that has done more to get out the vote with young people than decades of youngster apathy. And for that, they want him arrested. Too funny, and to be honest embarrasing on the part of worried Republicans.
Please, tell me about a campaign that doesn't "bribe" voters and I will tell you about a great deal on a piece of land in Florida. And if it only takes three pair underwear and a dime bag of Ramen to get a vote for Kerry, then I would think that Bush really ought to be worried.
posted
No offense, but asking someone to vote for Kerry is one thing. Actually GIVING something to someone in order for their vote for Kerry is another thing and it's against the law.
Anyone can set up a booth to get people to vote and vote for their candidate. When you give something to someone in return for them promising to vote the way you want them to, is illegal.
Why?
Because it opens the doors for corporations to tell their employees, "I'll give you a raise if you vote for ________". Or repurcussions for NOT promising to vote a certain way.
As long as he was giving the same items to people who promised to vote for Bush, then there's an arguement.
But anyone who is stupid enough to think MM was encouraging/bribing people to vote in an unbiased way is a few marbles short of one.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
And how can one give a substantive reply to rhetorical statements solely meant to insult, Dagonee?
However, you are correct in pointing out that my "Moonies" analogy/reference/hyperbole -- to the WashingtonPost article being more in keeping with the crud regularly put out by the WashingtonTimes than with journalistic standards -- was obviously too obscure.
quote:"It's ironic that Republicans have no problem with allowing assault weapons out on our streets, yet they don't want to put clean underwear in the hands of our slacker youth," Moore said. "The Republicans seem more interested in locking me up for trying to encourage people to participate in our democracy than locking up bin Laden for his attacks on our democracy."
posted
It's statements like that, filled with half-truths and obviously incorrect accusations that time and time again keep me from having any sympathy for Moore whenever he receives his own dose of unfair criticism.
posted
.Which is what makes it so funny that the article implies that he's driving around, throwing underwear and ramen at anybody who says they'll vote for Kerry.
THERE's an image from a political Mardi Gras on crack. *giggle*
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Like girls flash their Kerry signs at him and are adorned with underwear? I'm not sure how much more wholesome that is than the orginal premise for Mardi-Gras.
posted
Students will say they're going to do anything for free stuff. I doubt MM made any difference at all.
I do agree that although he shouldn't be prosecuted he should have been condemned. Bribery, however pathetic, is still bribery.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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