posted
Does anyone here support amnesty for illegal immigrants once they've been here for a certain period of time? Why or why not?
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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I think the only reason not to allow universal free immigration is because we have a welfare system.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I may be a little simplistic, but I figure we should either have a BCIS or we shouldn't. If someone comes here without going through the established channels, then they should be held accountable.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I've been thinking about this today. Some show on the History Channel about the border patrol got me doing that. From what the show said, the biggest problem isn't the people that cross, but the drugs that sometimes cross with them. Anyway, I think that if someone enters the country illegally and shows that they are actively working to be a hard-working, stable member of society, (for example, the Mexican man I met a few years back who had two kids with a fiancee he couldn't marry because he crossed the border after graduating from college and being denied for a Visa several times) then sure, let them have amnesty and a chance at citizenship.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
last I heard they changed the INS to the BCIS. I forget what the acronym stood for. However, upon looking for the link, I came across this link. I assume it has now changed to the USCIS (United States Citizenship and Immigration Services).
With all the post 9-11 stuff going on, I guess the INS/BCIS/USCIS is undergoing constent chang.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
My first post was brief, so I'll elaborate on my exact question and why I ask it.
I work with a man named John from Latin America. He came here legally, but he knows a lot of people who have been illegal for long enough to have children and raise their family in America. His litmus test for a candidate in this election is amnesty. He knows a lot about the issues, and although he doesn't agree with many of his policies, John is voting for Kerry solely because he's promising to give John's friends citizenship. That is the only issue that he cares about enough to vote on. We had a long discussion about it last time I worked with him. I don't agree with his position on this particular issue because:
It is encouraging people to come to America illegally, making it more difficult to control our borders.
It is rewarding criminals at the expense of people who respect our laws.
I don't feel bad for his friends because they had a chance to go through legal channels and they turned it down.
His only reason for approving of amnesty is because he feels sorry for the immigrants. I was just wondering if anyone else feels like my friend does, or if anyone agrees with me. I was also wondering why people feel this way so that I can see the issue more clearly from both sides. Any help would be appreciated.
posted
I am undecided on the question, but I can give you a few of the reasons for it.
1)Stop abuse of illegal immigrants. They can be paid for less than minimum wage, then robbed, beaten, and raped, and they allow this to happen because they fear being deported more than their abusers.
2)Once they are given legal status, they can be tracked and taxed better.
3)Once they have legal status they can travel back to their home country without having to worry about the difficulties of crossing. This will make such immigrations seasonal and temporary. Now, once they get here its easier to stay than to risk another trip.
4) Without some form of legal id, such workers can not get loans to purchase cars neccesary for some jobs, or to get all but the most dangerous of rooms. Much of the overcrowding in the Illegal Immigrant community is due to these facts. This is a health risk for disease and fire to them and their neighbors.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I agree with you. I am not sure what to do with illegal immigrants when you find them. If they became productive, it seems harsh to uproot a family. On the other hand, it seems unfair to do nothing. I would rather reward someone for following the laws of the land.
I was intrigued by what President Bush said in the third debate. I am not sure I understood him clearly, but it sounded like he proposed an idea to give a temporary work card. The work card would guarantee minimum wage, and it would make tracking taxes easier.
It seemed to me that the employer could only offer employment to people with temporary work cards IF no one else applied for the job. It seems like a plan to offer work and minimum protection in a compassionate way to people who are here illegally without trumping jobs, rights, or status from people who came here legally.
Does anyone else know about this temp-card thingy? I had never heard of it till last night, and I have no idea if it is being tested or how it would be implemented. I was impressed with the theory and logic behind the plan.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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1. Make a world state - unfortunately I don't think I'll live to see it...
2. In this case *all are equal* would really have to mean *ALL are equal*. So: no more immigrants. If you afford to go somewhere and, once there, work for your life, and for the benefit of those around you, by all means GO there!
Anyway, we're waaaay too immature as a species to be able to create a world state right now... Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote: Anyway, we're waaaay too immature as a species to be able to create a world state right now...
I disagree.
I think ourreal problem with having a world state has not been our tendancy to break out into violent conquest or defense of territories, but our ability to communicate.
It seems to me that as our technology to communicate has increased, our ability to sustain larger countries. Our tolerance of other cultures has also increased, and I believe this to be a direct result of communication rather than some increase in human intelligence or compassion.
We already have global communication, not only from news but now it is interactive through the internet. This effect will take a while to seep into our culture, but I honestly believe this is the first step in a world government.
The next step would be to have a global economy, which I am all for. It HAS to happen eventually, there is already so much international commerce going on. And now, it isn't just large corporations involved, but individuals buying single items from shops or other individuals out of their country.
Borders will break down. Hopefully we'll get either a major reform of the very corrupt UN or a replacement. We'll start to see universally applied laws that actually make a difference. Eventually, I think every country will have about the same kind of autonomy as the states do in the USA, allowing for some flexibility but dependant upon global policy.
Posts: 438 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Those are all very good points and worthy of consideration. Unfortunately, they'd work just as well as arguments to completely deregulate immigration and give everyone citizenship as soon as they cross the border. I don't think we want that.
The problem I see with amnesty is why would you bother to pass a law if you're going to say it's okay to break it? It's like saying that it's illegal to practice medicine without a license, but if you can get away with running a successful fake practice for a certain number of years we'll make you a doctor. Rewarding someone for illegal behavior will only encourage that. I'm not a fan of mixed messages. If it's okay, let's make it legal across the board, and if it's not let's prosecute it as severely as the situation calls for in every circumstance. If anything, people should be punished more severely for spending so many years as a criminal.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
A lot of our immigration policy is crafted so that we get immigrants that are most likely to be productive contributors to society.
If they have already proven themselves to be that kind of person, I don't have a problem letting them be citizens.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote: His only reason for approving of amnesty is because he feels sorry for the immigrants.
Probably because John knows that just about everyone with any status in American is descended from immigrants.
Nothing sadder than driving through the reservations out of Grand Canyon. Of course, they have larger cities and these are the members of that community who chose to be isolated, but still. Even the school roof is a sheet of scrap metal with tires piled on to keep it in place.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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