posted
I'm no longer interested in political discourse. The election last night, in my mind, proved several things about America.
1) We've proven that we aren't interested in forging a world wide alliance of democracies towards the ends of containing war and spreading liberal democracy.
2) We've proven we're comfortable with our role as aggressor nation, and, hence, we've proven that we're comfortable as a nation with imperial goals.
3) We're comfortable with the idea that religion should be public, and that non-christians aren't REALLY welcome as equals.
4) We're comfortable voting our hatreds and fears, both foreign and domestic.
5) We're comfortable screwing over people who need help, while we help out those who need none
6) We're comfortable with the concept that private life shouldn't be private
7) We value illusionary safety more then our freedoms.
The list goes on, but its fairly boring reading.
I'm not proud to be an american, today. The single biggest reason for this is, we re-elected a president who invaded a nation that had not attacked us, nor attacked our allies, nor had any plans to do so. That makes us an immoral nation, in my book, and irredeemably so for at least 4 years.
The populations of other liberal democracies, world wide, look at the results, and see the same thing I do. That we are NOT a peace loving nation. That war is how the US will solve its problems.
Unfortunately, what that means is, we will lose ability to project power. Nations may help us, but the nations we want to help us, when they do so, will only be through coersion and fear, with the possible exceptions of Britain and Israel. Even in Britain, the population mostly won't believe we are a moral nation, either, even though the government may continue to support us.
With a dwindling ability to project power, and growing power in China in particular, we will become less and less capable of protecting our real interests, both diplomatically and militarily, which will have been lost because "We shouldn't change horses in mid-race."
Which brings me to another point... we've now proven that the surrest way to win re-election is start a war, even one that is a war of aggression, about 18 months before a bid for re-election. It won't matter... we don't love peace, so we'll re-elect you, in order to "stay the course."
I'm no longer interested in discussing these matters. We've chosen our man, and it makes us immoral. All of us. We are all less moral today then we were yesterday, for standing up, and saying to the world "War is the appropriate means of solving your problems!"
God help us if we have to try to prevent an invasion of another country... because nothing extant will.
You're mostly great people here, but I'm completely dissillusioned. Our country is not a country of good will.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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Obviously I disagree with mostly everything you've said about politics, Ev, but I really do hope your goodbye ain't to Hatrack in general but to discussing politics in particular. Take care either way, man Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Because he doesn't want to talk about it, and all we do at hatrack, by virtue of being a discussion board, is talk?
I'll probably be scarce for at least a few days, too, until the discussion has moved on to other things. It was bad enough before the election, when I still had hope. And I know life will go on, and I believe America will survive this... but I do not believe it is what's best for our country, and I'm not ready to deal with it yet, and especially not to deal with people who believe it is.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I dunno. I hate politics. It bores me. So I just ignore the political threads. And news. And basically, just hide under a rock my entire life.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
kat, I don't think Paul does, from what I know about him, after all the Hatrack/Ornery writings, and meeting him a couple times. He just needed to vent. He's upset... To the point that he feels he's out of here.
posted
It's human nature kat. You want to be heard and understood, you want people to notice you and you want to be missed.
Posts: 3771 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Ok, it was still EXTREMELY CLOSE. If you want to say that the majority disagrees with you there is still a *huge* minority (approximately 48%) that agree with you. I think that should be encouraging, and one shouldn't feel that they are alone and isolated as a result.
posted
Bok-- my point was that if Paul didn't want to talk about it, why post ~500 words on the subject? That ain't no lite post, right there.
This indicates, and I'm not one to really know, honestly, that he DOES want to talk about it, but doesn't want anyone to question his conclusions, or make him responsible for them.
Which no one has, as far as I can see.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:I'm not proud to be an american, today. The single biggest reason for this is, we re-elected a president who invaded a nation that had not attacked us, nor attacked our allies, nor had any plans to do so.
Iraq had plans and desires to attack Israel, which is a US ally. Saddam gave money to the families of suicide bombers, apparently, in support of their brand of terrorism.
quote:we've now proven that the surrest way to win re-election is start a war, even one that is a war of aggression, about 18 months before a bid for re-election. It won't matter... we don't love peace, so we'll re-elect you, in order to "stay the course."
Bush Sr. disagrees with this stance.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
It is not my fault. I neither voted for Bush nor expressed any support for the Iraq war. On the contrary, I have stated on multiple occasions that I care nothing for the people of Iraq, or for that matter the people of Israel. I was more than willing to let them overthrow their own dictator, and fight amongst themselves. Do not blame me for the opinions and actions of others.
Posts: 281 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I'm going to agree with Scott here. If he really was so disillusioned he didn't want to discuss politics he could have said the following:
"I'm no longer posting here, because the election has me disillusioned and I don't want to be anywhere that is talking so much about politics."
Or better yet, just leave.
The last time I left this place (and all internet forums for that matter) I just did. I stopped posting. I stayed gone for months. Then, I felt like coming back and I did.
Taking a break can be a good thing - I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with obviously trying to have a last word and refusing to discuss anything with someone who doesn't agree with you.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I've lost count of how many "Goodbye, Hatrack!" threads have been made - heck Belle, you wrote quite a few yourself - and I guess there's always a reason.
I have this theory that when people leave dramatically, it is not because of something the forum did, but because of something they did and don't want to deal with at the moment. In other words, I think this is more fallout from last week's drama.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
No, Badnarik. I was going to write in no confidence, but they do not count write-in votes unless the candidate had filed an intent to run. Kentucky was about 60-40 Bush-Kerry, and I did not have a coin in my pocket, so I was not going to risk voting for a man I detested without the cash already in my hand.
Posts: 281 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I don't see him coming into this thread to debate anything said. He wanted his words heard. He vented. *shrugs*
Funny...this does happen all the time here. He may be back, he may not.
If he comes back, this thread shouldn't be that big of a deal. Forgetta bout it! If he doesn't, well, we'll know why.
Posts: 3771 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I can understand why he feels sad and disillusioned and why he needs Hatrack to hear why he feels that way. There’s no need to make this a political discussion. If Kerry had won, someone else might have been writing a similar post, to explain their emotions and their (perhaps temporary) abandonment of this forum. Let’s just hope that he comes to see that he can make a difference here and other places even if it seems unlikely to him right now.
As for making a dramatic sortie – doesn’t it come with the territory?
Posts: 99 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
For the record, I have always hated politicial discourse and I still come here. I hunkered down for the months before the election, though... O_o
I hope Paul will be back. Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote: And if a Kennedy follows this, please don't let it be Teddy. Please.
I think Ted lost all his chances of Presidency about three decades ago.
As for what Paul said, all of it is generalization. If that was his reason for hoping that Kerry would win, and if that's how most of Kerry's supporters felt, well, there was no way he could win, because that means no one who supported him was voting for HIM. They were voting for an Idea. I'll admit, its an idea that may not be entirely false, but Idealism doesn't run a country.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Good point. But only to snark at him - is this is a case of any attention is better than no attention?![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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