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If anyone has any experience with the legalities behind Universities and fraternities, could you please send me an email at RynDrythorn@aol.com or catch me on AIM?
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I don't know much about the legalities, other than they vary greatly from school to school. Have you checked the school's policies?
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Well, I didn't know a whole lot before. I know more now.
Seems the problem is that the university is worried that we have no oversight body, no administration that has jurisdiction over us.
We started our organization 32 years ago as a student activity. Everything was peachy. 15 years ago, they changed the parameters for what constituted a student activity - and they strictly ruled out any type of pledging.
We have apparently slipped through the cracks for 15 years, and a letter from a psycho parent [who basically kidnapped his son's girlfriend (who was pledging - coed, remember) to keep her away from the fraternity] drew the university's attention.
So, the fraternity is no longer allowed to exist as a student activity and has been told to cease and desist all operations.
Unfortunately, the fraternity cannot become part of the interfraternity council, either, because there is no national organization - we are unique to our school, having broken away from a national service fraternity 32 years ago (we wanted to admit women, they didn't).
So, our options appear to be as follows: a) Disband utterly b) Become a student organization with no pledging and no dues - essentially a service club c) Become a non-sanctioned fraternity, which would eliminate all affiliation with the band and school (which would preclude recruiting members at rehearsals, and essentially destroy the fraternity in a few years) d) Disband and join a national fraternity e) Somehow ally with a national fraternity as a sort of satellite f) Become a national fraternity ourselves, by starting 9 more chapters at other schools
None of these are exactly desireable, though the last two have at least some promise.
As it is now, they have told us we no longer exist, and that we are no longer allowed to congregate as a fraternity or have pledges at all.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Is it possible that the university might give you some time to FORM a national fraternity? Since they've turned a blind eye to the organization for 15 years or so, maybe they'd be ammenable to serving as an "incubator" for a new national fraternity.
Good luck. I hope you find a lawyer to help with your case.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:We have apparently slipped through the cracks for 15 years, and a letter from a psycho parent [who basically kidnapped his son's girlfriend (who was pledging - coed, remember) to keep her away from the fraternity] drew the university's attention.
WHAT???? A parent kidnapped another kid (not their own) to prevent the other kid from joining a group that the kid wanted to be in? <reeling>
Can you contact the original national that you broke away from and see about rejoining? If the only reason for the split was the willingness to allow women to join, and it's been 32 years, national may have changed their stance on that matter.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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You might look at how groups like APO(Alpha Phi Omega) do this. This group is a co-ed service fraternities. While it is national it might be interesting to see how your university treats them. My school did not treat APO as a "fraternity" instead it was treated as a campus organization. We weren't required to perform our pledging during the same time as the other fraternities or anything else.
Posts: 872 | Registered: Mar 2002
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See, those would be the two "join a national" options we'd have, I'd think.
We sort of have a traditional dislike for our parent national (and hiss whenever we hear their name), and the split was over more than just the coed thing. Mostly it was over money, because their dues were seen as being far too high for what our chapter was getting back from the national. We called a meeting with a representative from the national about the financial and coeducational concerns, and he basically said "tough cookies" on the money issue and told us they would revoke our charter if we pledged women.
We did. They did. We formed our own fraternity. They have since become coed (only a few years later, I think), and have repeatedly requested that we return. This issue is brought up once a year as a matter of tradition and voted down unanimously.
If nothing else, the current brothers would need to repledge that fraternity and learn all their rituals, and all alumni brothers of my fraternity would be left out in the cold - their fraternity dissolved beneath them. That's not really an option that's being considered.
As for APO, we have a pretty good relationship with our school's chapter. They are protected by the fact that they have an overseeing body, which is their national. They have someone to answer to, and we don't. So they're cool in the University's eyes, and we're not. All we have is a faculty advisor.
It might be a thought that we could somehow fall under their umbrella for a time, as a "music service" satellite of their "community service" fraternity. I don't know if this is possible, though, or if we would need to pledge APO as well.
And yes, that wacko grabbed this girl and held her in his car for several hours to keep her away from her pledge brothers and the brothers of the fraternity. Trust me, we're as outraged as you are over that little tidbit.
But he wrote a nasty letter about "hazing" (which is unfounded), which subsequently called attention to the loophole we'd existed under for 15 years. And we're told if there's any retaliation against him in any form, the entire executive board will face judicial action.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Even legal "retaliation"? It seems that girl would have a pretty good case against him for something. It is ridiculously illegal to hold someone against their will.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oh sure, she would. She can probably take whatever legal channels she wants. But any sort of retaliation on the part of other brothers of the fraternity is what's at issue.
Meaning, going up to the guy and telling him off for what a wacko nutjob he is would be a Bad Idea (tm).
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Well, yes, but that's generally true . If one is "official" in any capacity one avoids stirring the waters if one wants to continue.
It seems to me the issue is the membership test, so to speak. Which is a thorny issue. However, I would bet that there are some more "loosely organized" national fraternities that exist to shelter more independent fraternities. Also, the position is a bit odd in some ways -- I wonder how this college expects there came to be national chapters.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Does the oversight have to include groups from other universities? What about an “oversight board” in the form of an alumni council of some sort?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Well, I went to a meeting tonight (the first in several years) which had a high turnout of alumni offering support and advice to the active brotherhood.
They are certainly in a predicament.
No decisions were made, but I think they are going to drop the words "fraternity" and "pledge" (as well as cease any and all rituals) from the organization's constitution and register as a "club" for the time being. That way, they can continue to do their service as a recognized organization (in this case a "service club") while they figure out what else they can do to preserve the fraternal nature of the group.
It'll be a stopgap measure until they figure out another way to resolve the problem, but it will allow them to continue their service to the band.
So far, everyone they've dealt with at the school has been very supportive and has tried to offer alternatives and solutions.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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. If one is "official" in any capacity one avoids stirring the waters if one wants to continue.
