posted
So, we're looking at getting another laptop and I find myself in need of a little advice. I was thinking about one of the low-end Alienware laptops, but they raised the price before we made up our mind.
We've got a budget of $1500 including tax and shipping. Now, I could go to Best Buy tomorrow and pick up a Gateway or Toshiba or HP laptop with reasonable specs (processor, memory, wireless), but I'm a little leery of those brands. It seems like for every person I hear say a good thing about those brands, there's at least one more that says a bad thing.
On the other hand, IBM does make a laptop that's within reach. The T42 would be great, but the only way I can afford that one is with 256 MB RAM and no MS Office. But I could get the R51 with 512 MB RAM and Office Basic (which is really all I need in terms of productivity software). The graphics aren't as good, but this won't really be for gaming anyway.
Here are the specs:
IBM Thinkpad R51: Pentium M 715 (1.5GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 400MHz FSB) 512 MB RAM 30 GB HD Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Intel Extreme Graphics 2 14.1" XGA Display CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo V MS Office, Basic Edition
So, is this worthwhile? I need it to be reasonable portable, as I will be going back and forth from San Diego to Huntington Beach a lot over the next 6 months. I mainly want to have internet access, word processing, and the ability to do light web development. Games will be reserved for the desktop.
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posted
I'm not qualified enough to get into specifics, but I'd say you should look harder for memory and not so much for processor speed for what you have planned. Really all those applications seem like they wont take much processing power at all, but if they upgrade they'll take up more memory much faster than more processor power.
posted
Portability has a lot to do with weight, at least with my laptops. Despite my Gateway having better overall numbers and performance(1G of RAM for instane) it weighs 7.5 lbs. So instead of clunking it around, I take my less than spectacular but serves well specs Averatec because it only weighs about 3 lbs. Huge difference. The averatec is like having another book in my bag, while the gateway is like having a brick.
Both do web development, word processing, general internet crap easily. The difference is the RAM, basically. The gateway is noticeably faster, especially when I use dreamweaver or adobe photoshop. The difference in RAM is 1G vs. 512MB. But the Averatec's four lb weight difference makes it win over the Gateway if I have to tote it ANYwhere. The extra processing time is a more than fair trade off with the lessened weight. If I'm at home and have to do a good deal of development or photo processing, I go straight to my gateway.
Both laptops of mine take a good beating. I've dropped the averatec at least 10 times (I'm rough on computers, okay? I REALLY need one of those ballistic ones at some point in my life, like after I win the lottery) and the gateway even more. Both are absolutely fine...I had to replace the hard drive on the gateway once, but that was after 2+ years of use (and I had JUST backed it up the week before. What the hell?)
posted
It occurs to me that the 12-inch iBook would probably suit my computing needs just fine, and it's considerably cheaper than the Thinkpad, although it also has a slower clock speed. Does anyone know if I'd be able to connect it to my existing wireless home network (which is all PCs)?
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posted
Yes, you would. Sharing files would be the tricky part, though. MS files would share just fine. But you could go online on your nbetwork, if that's what you mean.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
It's funny you should bring this up. I just bought a laptop with the money I got back from my refinancing. I shopped around online to see what a machine customized to my preferences would cost. But here's the thing: I don't like to order computers. If I'm going to lay out over a grand on something, I don't want to wait for it, and I want to see it in front of me before I commit to it. So I did this pretty much just to get a feel for what a computer I would like would cost me. Then I went shopping in the stores to see where they came in on comparable machines.
Our first laptops were Toshiba Satellites, and we had awful luck with them. And yet, here on Hatrack, I've read people swear they are terrific. We went through two, much faster than we should have, and we decided to never buy one again. Last night at Best Buy, I talked to the salesman about this, and he said it was because the low-end Toshiba laptops were made by another company, so the high end ones were pretty good, but the cheaper ones were not. (He also told me that Gateway had gotten a mixed reputation before, but now their laptops were actually made by e-machines, and were considered to be better.) Both of our Toshibas were the cheapest laptops we could find. My second laptop was an HP. (So is our desktop.) I actually had a lot of problems with both, and yet I've been reasonably happy. Both needed to go in for warranty work, and in the case of the laptop, I had to get pushy to get stuff covered. In the case of my desktop, it came back from warranty the first time more broken than when I sent it in. But uiltimately, the problems were resolved, and I got three good years out of my laptop, and my desktop is still going strong. Cor's second laptop is a Sony Vaio. It is incredibly light, and she hasn't had the slightest problem with it. It is also the most expensive computer we have ever bought. Perhaps you get what you pay for.
This time, I debated between going with a new brand, and sticking with the unreliable but cheap HP. I looked at many light laptops, but in the end, having the specs I wanted meant more to me than weight. When I carry my laptop around, I carry it in a padded section of my backpack, wo weight is just not the end-all for me. I ended up with this Gateway. It was in your price range before I added the warranty (I always get extended warranties on laptops, after our Toshiba experiences). It has an AMD Athlon 64 processor, 2.0 GHz speed, 512 MB RAM, a widescreen display, S-Video out (irrelevant to most, but a must for me), 80 GB hard drive, and built in wireless card. And I got to use 37 Best Buy Bucks on it!
quote: Do you have Office for your desktop? Because you're allowed to put it on another machine as long as you own it.
This is NOT what I've heard. I own three copies of Office. Can you document this? Is this a change in policy?
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posted
It's not the sharing that can be a problem, its the compatibility that can sometimes be tricky. At least, trickier than if all the computers were the same. But what do I know, I've just done it at home.
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posted
What files are you talking about? I've never had any problem with common data file types; executables are of course platform specific. Document files operate cross platform (in by far most cases), image files are cross platform (check out GraphicConverter to take care of some of the more obscure ones), movie files are cross platform (actually, this is the one there's potentially the most problem with, but except for some of the latest wmv formats you can cover pretty much everything between real, quicktime, vlc, mplayer, and wmp).
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Um, Powerbooks start at $1599, which puts it outside my price range even before tax, to say nothing of memory upgrades.
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posted
Oh, and paragraph 1.1 of the MS Office EULA reads:
quote:Installation and use. Except as otherwise expressly provided in this EULA, you may install and use one copy of the Software on the Computer. The Software may not be installed, accessed, displayed, run, shared or used concurrently on or from different computers, including a workstation, terminal or other device.
My copy of Office came pre-installed on my desktop, and it's possible that OEM installations have a different EULA but I doubt it.
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posted
It's been three years since I've had to deal with it, so I remember the difficulties more clearly than the specifics of it. And if you wanna tell me that things have improved since then, well, then I can't argue.
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(The thing is, I suspect that three years ago you would have insisted to me that there were no issues in that regard. )
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posted
Prolly not, OS X was still new then and there were annoyances popping up all over the place. Though there was a cheap application for OS 9 (and OS X too, I think) that could convert most any document format into a more common one.
3 years is a long time in computer-land.
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posted
So, here's what may be a rather dumb question: how do you install and uninstall applications on a Mac?
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posted
Some applications have an installer (and those usually come with an uninstaller). However, its almost always drag and drop.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Yah, mack's right: most eveything about a mac is majic - all lights, mirrors and deception.
In our New Media program at Uni, we use mac's and pc's, and I was raised in a very anti-mac home. (Seriously!) So I've had to humble myself to use the ones at school, but I kind of enjoy it now. I can see myself owning a mac one day - as a 3rd or 4th computer. Oh, and mac's are always more expensive than similarly configed pc's by a few hundred bucks at least. Keep in mind though, most mac users I know hang on to them for a LONG time.
saxon, if I were you I'd totally grab the thinkpad. IBM's laptops, unlike the rest of thier consumer products, get rave reviews across the board - they know what they're doing with portables. You'll notice you get less spec for the buck with a thinkpad, but like the VIAO's, the Thinkpad's extra cost almost always translates into longer reliable life span. I know guys that've been using the same thinkpad for 5 years, without any warranty issues.
About MS Office - the new educational versions have a 3 liscense pack, and you should be able to pick it up for roughly $150 us from Staples or some such place. Make sure it's the educational one, though, 'cause it's the only one I've seen with the 3 lisc. deal. The downside to the educational version is that it's not upgradable when MS 2006 or whatever comes out, but considering the upgrade packs are MORE expensive than the edu pack, it's not a big risk.
Something else to think about: Ever tried Open Office? It's FREE.
posted
Except since macs keep their value longer, owning a series of macs is cheaper than owning a series of similarly featured PCs. Plus macs, while having slower processor (and usually graphics as well), tend to come with a range of additional features that makes them relatively price competitive if they're useful to you. For instance, a powermac has GigE, and Firewire 800, and optical audio jacks (which are somewhat unusual features in a PC), and operates near-silently. Particularly putting together a similarly featureful computer which operates at the same noise level is difficult to do at the same price level (actually, I'd love to see someone on hatrack try -- not just performance parity, which is easy, but true feature parity with a powermac for the same or lower price).
Doing it prebuilt's not possible, I'm pretty sure.
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quote:I'd love to see someone on hatrack try -- not just performance parity, which is easy, but true feature parity with a powermac for the same or lower price).
Comparing the baseline Apple PowerMac at $1499.00 From monarch computer: $1387.98
Motherboard: Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce4: - Gigabit LAN - IEEE 1394 (FireWire) - Athlon64 3000 Video: - GeForce 6600 128MB PCI-X graphics Sound: - Audigy 2 ZS Platinum (with optical output and frontside breakout box) RAM: - 512MB PC3200 DDR RAM Hard Drive: - 80 GB Samsung 7200 RPM drive Cooling: - 80 mm Thermaltake variable speed fan. Max noise 30DB/A Drives: - Samsung 16x DVD/CD-RW (monarch doesn't offer a DVD-R/CD-RW) Operating System: - Windows XP Home
It's unclear if the noise level would be comperable, since I know exactly how quiet a PowerMac is. I also couldn't get a DVD-R. I imagine that a more-savvy shopper would be able to assemble the extra components I'm missing.
EDIT: I also used a motherboard that might be a bit overkill. The A8N-Deluxe SLI is brand-new and rather expensive. I just loves it so much. I'm getting one in a few months. *glows*
EDIT AGAIN: It's also has twice as much RAM as the baseline PowerMac and a significantly better graphics card.
posted
In addition to the DVD-R, you're missing the firewire 800. However, you're going to save some money because the motherboard includes the optical audio. You should upgrade it to XP Pro, though, as that's more on feature parity with OS X (if we're trying to be precise, might as well be anal ).
posted
Here's my comuter... AMD XP3000+ (Overclocked, of course ) 1 Gig Ram 160gig HD Total Audigy 2 Platinum ZS (Oh, and Fugu, many PC's come with optical out audio, USB 2.0, and Firewire on board now, just so you know) GeForce 6800 GT DVD ROM CD Burner etc. All for a nice, crisp $1100 I beg a Mac to beat that.
As for Laptops, saxon, check out Sager . They were the manufacturers of Alienware's original Laptop line, so they're pretty high quality. And while IBM makes a fairly good system, companies like IBM, Dell, Compaq, Sony, and HP are hardly known for speed and quality.
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posted
Yes, optical's getting more common. FIrewire 800's not, particularly. I didn't even mention USB 2.0, and you're completely missing the point of what I said.
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quote: In addition to the DVD-R, you're missing the firewire 800. However, you're going to save some money because the motherboard includes the optical audio. You should upgrade it to XP Pro, though, as that's more on feature parity with OS X (if we're trying to be precise, might as well be anal [Wink] ).
DVD-R's cost 40-50 dollars. XP pro costs 50 bucks more than home. The BEST Macintosh comes with a maximum of a 9800 pro video card. that's about a year or so behind the curve in technology. That leaves the only little perk of a Mac as firewire 800...Wow. I'm really going to pay 300+ dollars for JUST THAT!!! (Especially since I never use Firewire)
edit: Just checked the price on Firewire 800 cards...54 dollars for a card. Just not convincing me that Apple is worth it man
[ December 11, 2004, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Boris ]
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It does pretty much come down to if you like the operating system. I'm not trying to convince you to switch, though I'd point out the large numbers of uber-geeks that use apple laptops might suggest some appeal . But if nothing else the comparisons when we try to bring in actual feature parity aren't all that far apart in price for their range.
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posted
Guys, the whole PC vs Mac debate is worthless. Take it from a hard-core A+ certified nerd who, until this year, swore that he'd never give a mac a compliment in his life.
My quick and dirty analysis: OR Mac vs PC
Mac's: You pay more for a mac for a reason. Mac's last longer. (That is, mac's have a longer useful life time) Mac's TEND to crash less, especially withy high end video/audio/content creation software. (Mac's can and do crash, I've heard some horror stories... but they have the advantage of a more unified harware base, which is why they're usually more stable than PC's - software developers have to take dozens of brands and specs for hardware into account for PC based software, while mac hardware is pretty tightly controlled by Mr. Jobs) Mac's have always been "easier" for certain user groups. (Ever notice how PC power users really get into thier hardware? It's like car guys who could build a muscle car from a pile of junk-yard parts. PC users know so much because thier pc's keep on giving them problems they have to solve. But most mac power users (not fugu13, who knows so much it's scary) are just that: power USERS, not builders or solvers. They know thier software, but give em a box of old mac parts and they couldn't build anything useful, let alone identify what the parts were.) Mac's are fashionable. (Admit this one - Apple has brought the cool back to computing (like it was ever there! )) So, yah, there are some things that mac's rock at. Definately better than pc's, in some ways. (Part of me feels dirty saying this.)
PC's PC's have the largest user-base by far. (Even though Linux is rising in popularity, it still runs on pc hardware. Linux machines are PC's, would you agree?) PC parts are easier to aquire. (IBM's original PC jr specs have evolved into the free-market maelstrom we have to day - and that's a good thing. Even though mac's may last longer, pc parts are less expensive and more easily attainable. Mac stuff is notoriously hard to come by outside of a city with a decent population while pc shops are EVERYWHERE.) PC's have a larger base of knowledge and versatility. (From hardware to software, most of the brains and effort in the personal computing field go into PC product development. There's no restrictive copyrights and such to prevent Joe Coder or John Electro-Engineer from doing what they want to with thier PC's - all the nitty gritty details are easy to find, and no one's going to dance on your face if you develop something that does a better job that the market-leader. Those of us old enough will remember Steve Jobs and the Apple clan taking down mac clone start ups and such. PC's are part of an innovation driven free market pattern, which is why games, apps and viruses come to the pc first.) PC's promote diversity. (This is more cultural than technical. The PC camp, being full of different OS's and hardware vendors, isn't a single coherent group controlled by one company. PC users argue between Intel and AMD, Linux and Windows, NVida and ATI, etc... mac users wear black turtlenecks and jeans and drool when the iPod comes out in a new colour. There's a reason mac users are stereotyped as ignorant, artsy-fartsy snobs - they ARE ignorant, artsy-fartsy snobs compared to PC users. The mac community is rigidly bound by the innovation of ONE company, while the PC community is endlessly mutating and changing.)
The verdict? Whcih one is better? Well, uh.... both. I've been a PC user all my life - I game, I edit photo's, I edit video, I create music, I model in 3D, I create websites, etc. But having begun to use macs from time to time, I cannot honestly say that PC's are always better.
Feature sets and bells and whistles will come and go, but as long as Microsoft is there to bail them out when they start going under, Apple will continue to make darn good computers that do darn good things, sometimes better than a pc does. And when they come out with something that totally destroys thier company, all they'll have to do is clone Steve Jobs and get him to pull them out of thier mess.
posted
And for the sake of saxon, who I'm sure had no desire to start a mac-vs-pc flame war, I still say go with the Thinkpad. (Or maybe another VIAO - they are shiney and pretty and usually work very well.)
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quote: they ARE ignorant, artsy-fartsy snobs compared to PC users.
Uh... good job there insulting an entire group of people, almost all of whom you don't know. Ignorant? How so? Artsy-fartsy snobs? Please. Lots of average people use Macs. Just because most graphic designers and the like use Macs doesn't mean everyone who uses a Mac is an "arsty-fartsy snob".
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posted
Thanks for all of the input, folks. I ended up going with the iBook. I'm liking it so far. I'm definitely not going to be forsaking PCs--I like gaming too much--but this thing definitely has its uses.
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quote: companies like IBM, Dell, Compaq, Sony, and HP are hardly known for speed and quality.
Eh? Sounds awfully anecdotal. While their desktops are rumored to be cruddy, Vaio laptops are not known to me to be anything other than high quality. And I don't just mean my wife's, but everyone I've talked to, including people who work with a variety of laptop brands for a living, and colleagues who have them, is that they are excellent. Pricey, but good.
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posted
I'm not sure about reliability, but my understanding of Sony laptops and PDAs is that if they do happen to break, getting them serviced is a giant pain. At least, a co-worker of mine had lots of problems in that area.
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posted
I managed to do some nice damage to a Sony Vaio laptop in a fall that both my Gateway and Averatec have taken numerous times without issue, other than me swearing.
Also...
Does anyone know of a cooling pad that ISN'T made for the big laptops? I have a little laptop and the cooling pads I can find are twice the size of my laptop.
[edited to add]
Sony DOES have an "act of god" tier in their warranty policy.
My computer's attempt at computercide didn't fall into that tier. Instead, it would've cost $750 or so to have Sony fix it.
posted
Adding a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel has eliminated any lingering reservations I had about my new Mac. And the nice thing is that I didn't even need to get a new one; the mouse that we were using with our Dell laptop works just fine.
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