posted
The nurse at the kiddos' new school called me this morning, concerned because my children's shot records don't have proof of the chicken pox vaccine. Apparantly, this is now required in the state of Indiana. I replied that they'd already had chicken pox a few years prior. The nurse asked in a shocked tone, "So they've had the disease?" I guess she was thinkin' I was a real doozy of a mom, because then she went on to say, "I noticed that your daughter hasn't had her Pertussis either (long pause)." I replied that's because she had epilepsy and the vaccine was not recommended for her.
I then asked what a parent would do if they didn't want their children to have the chicken pox vaccine. She said there was basically nothing they could do. Apparantly you can do a religious objection, but it's an all or nothing thing. So, I said as just a sidenote that I was surprised to hear that it was required now and that it concerned me as a parent that I didn't know that before now.
I don't think she liked that. She answered that surely I was more concerned about my children's health and that it was now required because there had been deaths.
Am I missing something here? I mean, the flu causes deaths every year....are we going to eventually see a day when that's required too? I'm not against vaccines as a rule, but this is making me wonder what else is going to be added. I know that many more parents now refuse vaccines for different reasons. But for some reason this required chicken pox thingy bothers me.
posted
It always seemed to me that if a kid dies of chicken pox there was another preexisting condition that contributed to his or her death. I know the Pox vaccination was on the list for my nephews from the time they were babies, but I can't imagine they would have had any serious problems with it, they all seem to be quite healthy. Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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And isn't there mercury in most vaccines? I'm glad the kids will be healthy, but isn't this kind of a silly way to do it?
I think I'm exempt from the Hep B vaccine requirement since I'm not going to live on campus, but I'm not sure. I'm in a monogamous relationship. Why on earth would I need a Hep B vaccine? I think the vaccines are getting out of control.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Growing up a Christian Science kid, I faced the vaccine requirement thing a lot, for school enrollment and summer camps. We went along with the basic requirements, because it was just easier that way, but nothing more. If I was in a doctor's office, you could bet I was starting camp a few weeks later. There was no other reason for me to go.
I'll probably do the same with my kids, get whatever shots are required for them to be enrolled in school and other programs, and nothing else. Hopefully they won't make everything mandatory by then.
I am a little surprised that the school nurse was shocked that your child had had "the disease". Isn't chicken pox in children pretty harmless?
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
No, CP can lead to death, although it is rare.
The biggest problem is the is is HIGHLY contagious, and some kids are highly sensitive to it. My sister had it two or three times, she had a hard time developing immunity to it.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
The vaccine/shingles link ignores two points:
First, only adults who have had the disease are at risk. So in the future, if everyone were vaccinated, the vaccine would not present this risk. We basically have to figure out a way to get past the initial problem.
Second, if exposure to the virus prevents shingles, why would we rely on the haphazard distribution system of exposure to children with chicken pox rather than something verifiable such as a booster.
Clearly, more study is needed. But even the facts already presented don't justify abandoning the idea of a CP vaccine.
As a side note, the link seems to say that 1 in 37,200 children die from CP, or about 100 per year.
posted
adam, the nurse said the vaccine was required beginning this fall, so this is a brand-new thing.
I first began hearing about the vaccine itself *thinks* probably about 5 years ago or so. At the time I decided against it because I didn't feel enough was known about it.
posted
Tha vaccine was approved in '95 and became mandatory sometime later. I believe it's nationwide - a quick google search popped Illinois, North Carolina, and Tennessee up at the very top.
Edit: Most of these seem to have a requirement for babies born in 2001 or so and later.
posted
AFAIK, the chicken pox vaccine is still voluntary in my area.
I can't imagine the flu vaccine becoming required. It doesn't protect you against all flu viruses and must be taken every year. If someone started spouting nonsense about requiring it, I would strongly oppose it.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
CP vaccine has been available in Illinois for roughly the last 5 years, based on my own experience. Heather's 11 and it was never offered as an option for her. Missy is 7 and was given CP vaccine at age 4, and I seem to recall her doctor saying it was "relatively new" when I asked about it. By that point, Heather had already gotten a mild exposure so he opted not to immunize her at the samt time.
I don't know if having either the CP vaccine or a documented exposre is now required in Illinois. Since I have one of each, I don't have a personal reason to research it.
WRT the flu vaccine... given that there seems to be a different combination every year - or is that merely a marketing ploy to ensure a continuing customer base? - I'm not sure how easily such a requirement could be enforced. I would hope that if it were to become required, the insurance companies would then be responsible for full payment of the vaccine instead of it being an out-of-pocket expense for the recipient. And what if we have another shortage like in this past year? Would that waive any mandated vaccination for the year or would the fact of mandated vaccination be sufficient incentive for the drug companies to prevent shortages?
quote:The new state law mandates that children entering kindergarten for the first time after July 1 must have received one dose of varicella (chickenpox) vaccine on or after their first birthday or provide proof of having had the disease.
In addition, all children 2 years of age or older must have had the chickenpox shot on or after their first birthday or provide proof of having had the disease if, on July 1 or later, they enter for the first time a child care facility or a pre-kindergarten program, such as nursery school, pre-school, early childhood or federally funded Head Start center, operated by a school or school district. Illinois is the 35th state to enact a school or child care requirement.
posted
You know Goody, I know several people who believe that the shortage of flu vaccine is a ploy by drug companies. No one in my family gets it, so luckily I've never had to worry about the availability.
I think over the last several years I've become much more anti-medicine, which is probably why I'm feeling weird about this additional required vaccine. I will go to the dr. when I'm sick, but I tend to try natural methods first - such as a warm cloth on my head instead of taking ibuprofen. My kids *might* take an over the counter med every six months or so.
I just hate the thought of putting things into my body that don't occur there naturally. I'm not completely anti-meds, of course. I think much of my current feeling stems from my daughter's seizure condition earlier in her life. That was the first time I'd been exposed to *strong* meds. At one point the dr. was worried that her liver had been damaged from her med - and she was 3 years old...ugh. So I guess this has caused me to adopt a more cautious outlook on medicine in general.
posted
Natural does not always mean something is actually better.
While there may be problems with how the vaccines are delivered, and certainly counter indications, I think vaccines are one of the best things to ever happen in medicine. That is because these basically give the body a clue so that if it does get exposed to the nasty virus, it can react to it without having to figure out just which antibody in it's vast library that it needs to activate. Our body is very, very good at getting rid of viruses if it has the antibodies for it. Normally, when there has been no previous exposure, the body has to try mixing and matching to create an antibody. But once there has been exposure, a LOT of that particular antibody is made and those hang around in the bloodstream, sometimes for months, for years, and sometimes for the entire lifetime. Once a second exposure occures, that antibody gets reactivated and more are produced. But the process is much faster, so that typically none of the body's other defenses ever come into play and the exposed person never knows it happened.
Why not give our body this advantage? Especially with diseases that have a high mortality rate, or make a person extremely miserable. I, for one, am glad my kids get to skip chicken pox and ruebella, both of which I had. Pox diseases are not only uncomfortable, they can cause scaring as well.
And I do remember a very healthy girl who got very seriously ill with chicken pox. She got them everywhere, and several occured on her brain. She survived. But why go through that when it can be prevented?
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:You know Goody, I know several people who believe that the shortage of flu vaccine is a ploy by drug companies.
There are also people who believe in aliens.
The problem with the flu shot is there is simply not much money in making it. Governments won't pay much to buy the doses, and it is expensive to make. If you guess wrong and don't make enough, you will have a shortage (and will not be able to make enough to boost your supply before the season is over) and if you make to much they have to be trashed at the end of the year because the flu mutates. There is also a lot of guess work of which strains to vaccinate against. Like the number of doses made, this has to be decided in advance, since once the season has started it is to late.
Scientists are working on other ways of creating a flu shot that would make it cheaper, so maybe in the future more companies will start making it.
As for it being required, I find it very unlikely that this would ever happen. It would have to be given every year, and it is not as effective as other vaccines (since there are so many strains of flu).
That nurse did seem a bit strange though. I can imagine some random daycare worker acting that way…but you would think a nurse would behave differently.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
The varicella vaccine (chicken pox) is also a new requirement for kindergarteners and 7th graders in Hawaii as of last year. All of my children have had chicken pox already, but we've moved since then and I didn't take them to the doctor for it since they had uncomplicated cases. I was mildly concerned that the school would not accept my word that they'd had it, but I gave them the month and year that they were ill and that was all I had to do. - My two youngest came down with chicken pox about a month after their little cousin had the varicella vaccine. My sister and I were interested to see if it would be effective, and he visited frequently while they were sick and did not get CP himself.
Professionally, I have investigated a number of chicken pox outbreaks. In many cases, children who were vaccinated still were reported with chicken pox, although they were far less ill than their unvaccinated classmates. Most vaccinated children did not have fever, and usually only had one or two localized lesions.
Currently chicken pox is only reportable in outbreaks (in a school, we consider an outbreak to be 20% of a class or 10% of the school), but within the next few years it will be considered reportable as a vaccine preventable disease in Hawaii. We're not looking forward to that and are putting it off as long as we can legally.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Space Opera...re: your OP, if your kids have had chicken pox, you should be able to take them to the doc for a titre ( a blood test which shows immunity to it in the blood) and present that to the school in lieu of the vaccine.
I live in a state with a pretty liberal vaccination exemption law, and if anyone tried to change that I would set up camp on the Capitol steps. I imagine a mandatory flu vaccine would be pretty hard to enforce, since it is yearly rather that something done two or three times.;
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Many of the cases of ADAM(my weird encephalitis)are in children. Many cases began with a vaccine. I will see if I can get more solide info on this.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
FYI: while I am entirely in favor of the CP vaccine, parents of immunized kids should be aware that it is only about 90% effective. (I believe this is lower than most vaccines, but Sara will let us know if I'm wrong .) However, immunized children who contract the disease do generally have far milder cases.
The vaccine has been available since my oldest was not-quite 2 (she'll be 11 in February). It was optional then, but at some later point became required. IMO, required is better -- you get more insurance coverage.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
(Note: not touching this thread with a ten-foot pole. Poking it slightly with a fiberoptic connection by writing this post, but that's it. )
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
A chicken pox vaccine was required for enrollment at one of the schools I applied to. I told the doctor that I had it when I was young and I got out of it. Posts: 1015 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Liz, some people believe as well that vaccines, particularly the MMR, can bring on seizure episodes. I was once part of a parents of epileptics forum and there were at least one or two people on there that firmly believed that their child's disorder was caused by a routine vaccination. I haven't seen the *hard* research on it, though. Could be that the timing of the first seizure was close to the shot, and the parents assumed causation. Could be that the children had an extremely low seizure threshold (everyone has a seizure threshold - some higher than others) and something in the vaccine set it off - an "allergic" reaction if you will. Could be that MMR really does cause some children to develop epilepsy - as I said, I haven't really read up on it.
posted
I've talked about vaccines extensively here before, and I'm a little dopey from cold medicine. I don't want to get testy.
(No hard feelings, no insinuations, just lots o' love for my tribe and an awareness of my own stupor right now.)
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
On a side note--back to the Flu Vaccine. According to a report I heard on the Radio, but that I don't have time to research now, for about 20 years in Japan, flu vaccines were mandatory for all children...the result...
a remarkable decrease in the deaths from the flu in the elderly.
Schools are a staging ground for diseases to spread. Cut the flu out there and littly Johnny can't give it to frail old Grandma at the nursing home.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I am not antvaccine at all, I have just heard mixed reviews of the flu vaccine. I also must point that ADEM is extremely rare, but vaccines and infections are the things that bring it on. And I am a bit paranoid, in general, at the moment.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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adam, the nurse said the vaccine was required beginning this fall, so this is a brand-new thing. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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.) However, immunized children who contract the disease do generally have far milder cases.![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
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