posted
Hi all Yes, this is a "do my homework for me" thread. I'm teaching a sequence of lessons on the life of Moses to my year 7 (7th/8th grade) students, and have got to the Burning Bush event. The topic outline I'm following hasn't got a particularly good lesson on this, and to me it's one of the central events in the life of Moses. I suppose I see it as Moses' "first revelation" experience and I want to get across the idea of how powerful that experience was for him. What do you guys think are the main things that young people should learn from the story of Moses and the burning bush?
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posted
That with God, all things are possible. Even the impossible liberation of an entire enslaved people by a verbally-impaired exile.
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posted
I like that, Jeniwren - I think I'll try and use that as a theme for the rest of the sequence.
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posted
Verily, Thou Shalt Not Do Heavy Drugs On An Empty Stomach.
No, seriously. Humans can accomplish impossible things if inspired? Humans can take inspiration from many sources?
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posted
I'm assuming it's a religion class. I guess it couldn't really be anything else.
This story is a good time to introduce or to enlarge upon the idea of "holy ground," since Moses was required to remove his shoes for this reason.
It is also one of many good stories that get into the idea of prophetic callings, along with such events as the passing of the mantle from Elijah to Elisha, the dreams of Joseph, the making of the covenant with Abraham and its restatement with Isaac and Jacob, etc.
As a turning point, it is useful to use the event to talk about Moses' life before and after, and the ways in which he might have been prepared in his earlier life for his later calling.
Finally - although this can get a whole lot deeper than is appropriate for his age group, perhaps - it can be used to talk about direct contact/communication between God and Man in general, and even the nature and characteristics of God.
posted
I would use it as an opportunity to show that we can "barter/pray for changes" with God. They had a discussion. Moses was not just a passive listener.
Point: We can have a relationship with God.
If I believed the story, I think that would be very powerful.
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posted
The other key event: From that point on, Moses lived almost exclusively for God. He made a decision to turn his life over entirely to God and do as he commanded. I think people gloss over that aspect of it - few events in a person's life can be that transforming.
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posted
Becoming a parent, perhaps? Might not be appropriate for the age group, but an interesting parallel. Especially since turning your life over to God is pretty much the opposite of parenthood : You are letting someone else make the decisions.
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posted
KoM: No, though I like to think that when we are inspired we can accomplish a lot more than we think we can. But that isn't what I think "with God, all things are possible" means. To me it means that when God wants to accomplish something and he calls you to do it, if you submit, you will be equipped to make it happen. Moses didn't do it alone. He *couldn't* do it alone, I don't think. It's an awesome thing that happened to Moses at the Burning Bush. He was called to do the impossible and while I think he wasn't entirely convinced about the project, he was at least willing to suspend disbelief. That's huge. Bigger than I think we realize at first glance. Sure, it's pretty spectacular to listen to a talking bush while it burns merrily unconsumed. But even with that, can you imagine God telling you to single-handedly make Saddam Hussein to let all his prisoners go? Wouldn't you think it was insane, impossible, totally stupid? Imagine too that you have a speech impediment and a death warrant out for you specifically in Iraq. Just to go there would mean death. I think actually doing what the bush says goes beyond being merely inspired. Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Thank you guys - I think I'm going to make the focus of the lesson on "turning points" and bring in some of the ideas you've mentioned - especially the idea that we can have a relationship with God, that with God, all things are possible and that the call was essentially asking Moses to live for God (and making comparisons between that and the Buddha's experience of enlightenment, which they have already learned about). I'd like them to do a piece of creative writing about it, but I'm not sure their literacy is quite up to that. I'll have a go, though, and I'll let you know how it pans out.
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posted
Well, jeniwren, I see what you are saying, though an Egyptian Pharaoh is hardly a match for Saddam in sheer nastiness. Doesn't have the technology for it, just for starters. But you have to remember, I don't believe in God. So, if I am to believe in Exodus as actual history, and there is IIRC some proof, then Moses is in fact doing that all by himself. Possibly, as I said, inspired by eating too many desert mushrooms, but impressive nonetheless.
In fact, I'm not all that impressed by Moses' decision if indeed God is real. Any idiot can force Saddam (or Pharaoh) to back down with the Lord Jehovah of the Hosts in his back pocket. Choosing to submit in that case is just aligning yourself with the winning side. Nothing very brave or special about that.
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posted
KOM, There's a big difference between not believing in something and needing to come in on something like this with unhelpful and innapropriate comments. The second, frankly, comes across as weakness.
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posted
I may have phrased it a bit inappropriately, but I was actually trying to be helpful. Nothing was specified about the context of this class; it could be something like comparative religion, or lessons from all the religions of the world. And there are indeed lessons in Exodus even for an atheist, some of which I suggested.
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posted
Just to clarify - I didn't find your comments unhelpful, KoM. While this is a religious studies class, it's supposed to be multi-faith, not inculcating the students into any one particular faith, thus it's useful to have an atheist's perspective as well as those of believers. However, my class being the way it is, I doubt I'd be able to get that point across to them... if I can get them to understand what happened and why it was a powerful experience, that'll be quite an achievement, I reckon.
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posted
KoM, please understand that I'm not trying to convince you that God exists, just discussing the role of God in the context of the story.
I think you make two mistakes in viewing Moses, Pharoah and the burning bush.
First, nastiness is technologically irrelevant. You can kill someone with drawing and quartering, or you can kill them with the latest designer poison gas. The victim is just as dead, and the killer is just as untouched by the value of human life. It's silly and naive to think that today's despots are worse than those we find in history simply because they have better tools for killing.
That aside, I think you also underestimate Moses' humanity. He was as human as you. I don't know if you've ever experienced stage fright, but you can't talk yourself out of stage fright. It's still as scary, even when you know there's nothing to be afraid of. Along that same vein, even if God were a genie in the bottle to be weilded like any tool (which is not how God is portrayed in this story or anywhere else in the Bible), only a mentally ill person would stand fearlessly before the despotic ruler of a country and say "Let my people go." I think Moses believed to his very toenails that God would be with him every step of the way, but I cannot imagine that he wasn't scared when he had to get up and do the talking.
fwiw, I'm enjoying this disucssion. I like thinking about this story and imagining it. And I like having my imagination challenged, especially by someone who obviously does not have the same religious beliefs.
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posted
Well, if you belive what the Jewish historians have decided, Pharoh was the sort of man would bathed in babies blood and used their bodies as cement. Not fun.
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And Moses came before the god Of Egypt and his throne, “Release my men, you petty wren, Or I shall twist your bone.”
And though he did not speak like that, His tone was fierce and harsh; For he did scare (with his own glare), To make Egypt a marsh.
And Pharaoh with his boasting soul Rejected Moe’s wise threat; For a plague which was ague, Was not in his mind set.
And yet old Moses said to him Who thought his seat was firm, “Your land of sweet won’t be discreet, And that I can confirm.
My people shall be free once more, Without your ‘dear’ concern; My men will be once more so free, And you’ll scald like an urn”.
The blood and frogs and lice were there, And animals’ attack; And many more made his heart sore, He yearned for death by rack.
He set the people free, for once, And chased them like a hawk; His death, no less, was a big mess, For he was a great gawk.
Moses and his men were free, And travelled to their land; What they knew not, was that they’d got Forty years’ of sand.
I remember that Joshua 5 had a similar situation to the Burning Bush... At least that's what we got on the test from a great commentator's grandson.
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jeniwren, it looked to me as though you were assuming that I assumed that God really exists in the story. It can be read that way, certainly, or it can be read as a tale of what a madman can accomplish. I just wanted to make sure you knew where I was coming from.
Now, about technology, I agree that boiling someone in oil is about equivalent to using poison gas. The thing is, poison gas is cheap; you can do really nasty killings on a very large scale. And, further, technology makes it easier to stay on top of your empire. Decent men could conspire against an evil Pharaoh, secure in the knowledge that their rooms were not bugged. Try that with Saddam.
Now, it's true that an irrational fear can't be talked away. But the fear of Pharaoh was nowise irrational; he really did have the power to order Moses killed. As an analogy, consider a fear of snakes. It is rational to be afraid of a poisonous snake in the same room as you; that fear can be removed by removing the snake, though. The sort of fear you're talking about is equivalent to being afraid of the snake even when you're 100% certain it has gone away. It seems to me that the assurance of God that he won't let Moses be killed is equivalent to removing the snake.
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posted
But KoM, within the story, you must suppose that God exists. To deny it would be like saying Peter doesn't exist in Ender's Game.
*thinks more* Or, I guess it could be like the hallucinatory characters in A Beautiful Mind. In which case, Moses would be a madman and the rest of the story would make absolutely no sense given the supernatural plagues further on.
What was your point again?
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posted
waitaminute...*goes back and re-reads posts*
I think the difference is that you're looking at the story as it were a history with nuances that you dispute since you don't believe in God. Is that correct? And that's your point?
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quote:comparisons between that and the Buddha's experience of enlightenment
Oh good. Then we can make the point that when you go up on the mountain, or out in the woods, or under a fig tree, looking for God, the devil will be there too.
You had better know the name of your god when it comes time to call out for help.
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posted
What's supernatural about 'em? Egypt had locusts every twenty years anyway. In fact, when you think about it, it's amazing how natural-seeming those 'miracles' are.
Edit : Oops, didn't see your second post. Basically, yep.
[ January 13, 2005, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: King of Men ]
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posted
Um, back on-topic, if no one minds too much . . .
To me, what is most striking about the incident with the burning bush is Moshe's (Moses') response. He is awed, but he is unwilling to just take God's assurances for granted. On behalf of his people, he will go up against anyone -- even God Himself.
That is part of what made him such a strong leader. (It's also what got him in trouble later, but that's another story.)
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posted
I like rivka's point. I always like to think of the Moses/burning bush story (and of the Angel Gabriel/Mary story) whenever I hear someone going on and on about how "true believers" aren't supposed to have questions. Moses (and Mary) had plenty of questions, and they wanted them to be answered before proceeding.
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