posted
We don't hate you Jay! We just disagree. A lot. But that's okay!
And for all of you who are not Jay...
quote:IF YOU WERE JAY THAT'D BE OKAY. I MEAN 'CAUSE, HEY, I'D LIKE YOU ANYWAY. BECAUSE YOU SEE, IF IT WERE ME, I WOULD FEEL FREE TO SAY THAT I WAS JAY...
YOU CAN COUNT ON ME TO ALWAYS BE BESIDE YOU EVERY DAY, TO TELL YOU IT'S OKAY, YOU WERE JUST BORN THAT WAY, AND, AS THEY SAY, IT'S IN YOUR DNA, YOU'RE JAY!
posted
I am quite conservative myself, but for some reason obnoxious conservatives bug me more than obnoxious liberals.
Maybe a part of me says "well, what do you expect" when somebody who disagrees with me is obnoxious. But when somebody is obnoxious in agreement with me, I have no such recourse.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I have a problem with anyone who attaches a label to themselves, and then dogmatically defends it. The world is not black and white, and those who try to force everything to fit into the view that it is miss the nuanced shades of gray that most of us live in.
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posted
Jay isn't getting hassled for being loudmouthed, or conservative. He's getting hassled for being rude. The martyr complex is just a bonus.
And I think it would be one thing if he were really trying to learn the culture of the board. He's not, though; every time someone criticizes him, he assumes it's because he's conservative (i.e., "in the right") and we're a bunch of liberals (i.e., "out in left field"). He puts on a big show about how people like Belle and Dagonee aren't "TRUE Republicans" and how everyone hates him and is against him, but isn't that just too bad, because he's so, so RIGHT! He is not trying to come to grips with the fact that this is, by and large, a very friendly, very (politically and culturally) diverse community. Once he does that, and tempers the grandstanding, I'm sure he'll fit in fine.
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he's had plenty of time to adjust. and as mack said, it's the martyr complex that's the problem. that, and the TomD bashing which is, though oddly amusing, out of place and unwarranted.
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posted
I wonder if it's just that more people on Hatrack are constitutionally incapable of ignoring Jay's type of annoying than are capable of ignoring other people's type of annoying.
I appear to be physically incapable of staying out of abortion threads. I have managed to build up a resistance to homosexuality threads though it still gives me the shakes. And Goodbye Cruel Hatrack threads tempt me not at all.
Jay, so far, hasn't bothered me in the slightest, largely because he hasn't attempted to integrate. He'd be a much more annoying if he were fun most of the time with occasional outbursts of obnoxiously rabid conservatism.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Jay, I'm not sure if you were replying to me or not. I'll reply to what you said, though. Understand that people's objections to you have NOTHING to do with your political beliefs and EVERYTHING to do with the way you behave. The sooner you understand that we don't really care how you feel about the president, but instead how you treat other board members, the more likely it will be that you will quit being "hassled" and instead be listened to and responded to with the same respect that you give to others.
Again, this has nothing at all to do with your views on the president, or even more generalized political views. Treat others with respect here, and they will treat you with respect in return.
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posted
To me, he's just like that itch that you can't quite reach it to scratch. But every so often you still try, manically.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Yes, calling someone a liberal is sooooooo mean. Cheering for the State of the Union is so obnoxious. Guess I’m just not seeing it. Oh well. Guess this is sort of like the time the one guy said I couldn’t think (instead of talking about the point of the discussion) and I came back with the degree thing and got bombarded with attacks on how insensitive I was. I laughed at the absurdity there. Or maybe like the time we has to get into the tedious discussion about “the most” or “the single most” for pages never ending. Oh well. Guess I’ll try and call people liberal more nicely!
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Pixiest, I know. My first post in here was addressed generally. My second post was in response to one of Jay's posts. I'm actually thinking he enjoys the hassling, because it lets him play up the persecution complex.
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posted
By and large I do succeed in ignoring people who seem unaware that they aren't on Ornery. But I foolishly stepped in the "Who deleted" cowpie. Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Yes, calling someone a liberal is sooooooo mean. Cheering for the State of the Union is so obnoxious.
Not at all. That's not the point, and never has been. What's annoying is the constant attitude that "liberal" equates to "pond scum," that everyone that disagrees with a single point Bush has ever made - even the contradictory ones - is therefore a liberal by definition, which means that anything anyone says in opposition can be utterly discounted because, after all, they're liberals. That and the feeling I get whenever I read your political posts that you're clicking on "Add Reply" while screaming "in your face, liberals!"
I don't mind different, even opposing views on anything. But scorn turns me right off.
[ February 03, 2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I'm not going to "lay off" if by lay off you mean stop politely pointing out when he's being rude. It's the same kind of obliviously rude condescension we're trying to train out of my brother, and it pushes every one of my buttons. If we ignore him, I don't think it's going to get better. He needs to know when what he says is out of line and why so he can learn not to do it.
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Maybe you are right. I guess I've just lumped Jay into the dude "catagory" and lowered my standards, kind of like all of the fat guy attractive wife sit-coms.
I still think that there is something wrong when I open one of his threads and find five people talking about what he said and 30 people talking about how he said it.
posted
I've never said anything about pond scum. You must have been reading into my thoughts on liberals.
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posted
Irami, when he learns to say it in a more socially acceptable way, maybe more people will talk about what he says.
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I don't know if it is that simple, or if it should be. All manners of evil are socially acceptable.
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posted
I'm also having trouble seeing him as a poster who's good for the community when he pretty clearly thinks most of the people on the board don't deserve to be spoken to respectfully. I'll cut him some slack when he starts behaving like a polite adult.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Irami, do you believe that his responses are polite and respectful? It's pretty clear that many people do not, so I'm not alone in thinking this. That would seem to indicate that the trouble is not with me alone.
Yes, it's an interesting question; as a community, what sort of behavior do we demand of our members, and how much deviation from that expected behavior can we take before the community offers an increasingly harsh series of penalties (from saying, "hey, cut that out!" to reporting posts, etc.)?
I'm reminded of Deet's community theories in OSC's story "The Originist."
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Irami, do you believe that his responses are polite and respectful?
No. My opinion of him is neither respectful nor polite, though I wonder if the word polite has the sense of what I think it does, but that's another discussion.
It's just a queer sort of entitlement that leads people to believe that they shouldn't listen to people who don't treat them well. There is something juvenile about [both] sides.
posted
Entitlement, eh? I think that society as a whole, and this community as a microcosm of that, should demand that its members behave well. Also, I do feel justified in disregarding the points of someone who makes points using rhetoric that is clearly intended to be offensive. You know the phrase "Form follows function"? To my mind, if his points had substance, he wouldn't need the form of obnoxious rhetoric. I read what he posts, and I have yet to see anything substantial, other than a general love for the current administration.
I'm not sure where entitlement comes into it, and it certainly has nothing to do with "sides," as you put it. I'm just not going to listen to someone whose primary rhetoric consists of:
YA YA YA! I'm right, and you're WRONG! and STUPID to boot! and I'm the only one that's right, ever! and if you disagree with me, you're WRONG! STUPID <insert hated group>! You just wish you were as right as me!
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Sorry to interrupt: I find Jay very annoying. So, I just ignore him and never answer to any post of his. Why don't everybody who feel the same do that until he shows hes capable of normal human interation?
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I forgot the word "both" before sides when I typed. I do that often.
The problem is that, it's been my experience:
"YA YA YA! I'm right, and you're WRONG! and STUPID to boot! and I'm the only one that's right, ever! e=mc2 and if you disagree with me, you're WRONG! STUPID <insert hated group>! You just wish you were as right as me!"
If one ignores it, one runs the risk of missing the fact that mass and energy can be equated.
I work with kids who aren't respected or spoken politely to, and I've been a kid who wasn't respected or spoken politely to, and if I had the attitude exhibited by those who were hard on Jay, I very well could be in jail.
Here is an example where that attitude constitutes entitlement.
posted
Farmgirl, I think he's just shopping for attention, and here he found the perfect crowd for his antics. Did you notice how much attention he's been getting, just because of his vehemence? His lines are always the same! He goes on and on and on. Quite boring, to tell you the truth. Like other trolls, stop feeding him and he'll go away or change his ways.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
So, to clarify, you're saying we should look for the pearls of wisdom that pop up in Jay's strings of cheerings and jeerings?
And, as for the last bit, are you saying that if you had demanded respect, you'd be in jail?
I simply think that in this situation, where it is possible and even good and necessary for people to be respectful to each other, the community as a whole should demand that its members be respectful to each other. That's what people are doing when they are "hard on Jay."
And, as I said earlier, I'm to the point where I think he's actually enjoying the attention and the chance to act put upon. I generally do not respond to him at all in threads when he's being rude, although I have interacted with him in fluff threads (and do so even as we speak). However, I did feel the need to respond to the idea that Jay was being persecuted, because I do not feel that is the case (at least, any more than any member of a community is persecuted when that member does not follow the standards of behavior demanded by that community).
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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