quote: "I've seen who DC elects - they shouldn't have a say in anything."
Wait- does this mean the District of Columbia doesn't get to vote? I've read something about something like this but I couldn't really believe it, but this just adds to it.
What's with the District of Columbia?
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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So... you don't have any thoughts on Marion Berry being re-elected after he was finished with his jail term? I have to admit I have no idea who is in office now. I mean, I don't agree that it is a reason for D.C. to have no say in anything. I don't think a lot of the elected heads of my state all the time.
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quote: "If we hadn't created Israel we wouldn't be in this mess."
Sure, but the US wanted Israel to be present. Besides, Israel, over the past 57 years, made life in the Middle East a lot easier. That is, in '67, '69 and '73.
They have "home rule" that can be overridden by laws passed by Congress and signed by the President. They have no representation in Congress, but they get a vote for president as if they were a state.
D.C. is allowed to self-govern, set taxes, and enact laws. However, Congress dictates funding levels, and has the power to overrule most D.C. governmental functions. The citizens of D.C. do not belong to Maryland or Virginia, and have no representative in the House or in Congress. 90% of people work work in D.C. live outside the city, so D.C. bears the overhead for infrstructure support and repair. It has one of the largest police forces in the country, in large part because it is the seat of the federal government.
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Fugu13, that is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. Most of Detroit is black, but they are allowed to self-govern. D.C. is the capital city. It was decided that no state should be given the prestige of hosting the nations capital, so instead was given the land it now resides on.
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But WHY, though? I mean, that seems somewhat undemocratic. I mean "Everyone gets represented... except you."
EDIT:
Oh, so I can imagine it doesn't get a Senator but how come no representative? Did they run out of chairs or something in the House of Representatives ?
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Fugu, DC didn't exist when those rules were made. Expansions to home rule occurred after DC was majority black.
The Federal district was set up to not be part of a state, so that it would be independent of state control. The lack of congressional representation is a holdover of this.
My proposal is 1 Senator and the number of Representatives they would be eligibile for as a state.
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I don't like the idea of having an odd number off senators, though. Don't ask me why. Perhaps it's time to allow them to vote for representatives in one of the neighboring state. Sort of a political annexation if not an actual one.
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Not to mention that the number of people relative to the representation they would have would make DC residents vastly OVERrepresented.
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But... surely they should have representation?
Also, how does the whole "No taxation without representation" thing line up with an underrepresented city? I know that's an ancient mantra, but I think it fundamentally has got the right idea. Are there taxes in D.C.?
Why aren't the D.Cions clamoring angrily about all this?
quote: I don't like the idea of having an odd number off senators, though.
It because it looks better when they line up neatly in pairs. The senators came in two by two, hurrah, hurrah...Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I can name, off the top of my head, three states that have fewer residents than DC: Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming. Posts: 241 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Also, how does the whole "No taxation without representation" thing line up with an underrepresented city? I know that's an ancient mantra, but I think it fundamentally has got the right idea. Are there taxes in D.C.?
Why aren't the D.Cions clamoring angrily about all this?
They are. In fact, they have official license plates with "Taxation without Representation" on them. Link.
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Well, either way. I think this is undemocratic and kind of... odd, especially in a country that is as forward as America.
You Americans are Crazy!
ps. isn't there somekind of "all citizens should have the vote" in the constitution that causes trouble with this?
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I know that not having the vote when there's no reason (or excuse) is undemocratic.
Dag: *pat pat* If it's any consolation you helped a poor undereducated Canadian become angry about the state of a couple thousand Americans .
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I hate to stick my tongue out at you, JH, but
And I mean Americans in the United States of America sense. When I mean Everyone On the American Continent, I say North, Central or/and South Americans.
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I was thinking in large part of this part of Dagonee's statement:
quote:They have "home rule" that can be overridden by laws passed by Congress and signed by the President.
DC didn't even get that limited capability (a commonly elected mayor, and a council that could decide anything but the banal) until long after its founding, and it was because it was mostly black. People should do a little reading on Theodore Bilbo for examples of one guy who worked to keep home rule out of the hands of black people.
edit to be clear: entire post is not really directed at Dag
quote: Why aren't the D.Cions clamoring angrily about all this?
We are. But not many people outside the District actually care enough to listen. For example: about a year ago (I think) I posted a thread about this very issue. It died mighty quick.
The situation in DC is a catch-22. Those of us who it affects have no vote in Congress to changed anything. Those who can elect voting members to Congress aren't affected and probably won't fight for us.
Just one note: we do have one representative to the House of Representatives. She just doesn't get to vote.
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D.C. is the federal seat of power, and as such cannot be given a status that is equal to those of its constituent parts(i.e. states). The separation of State and Federal government will not allow D.C. to have any more influence in national matters than it already does. That doesn't mean that some form of representation is not needed, but most people dismiss any notion of D.C. being given more governing power because it is generally couched in the context of statehood. D.C. cannot become a state. The sooner the residents of D.C. come to grips with this, the sooner progress can be made to address legitimate concerns.
Also, if all else fails, and residents are hell-bound for their "state" right, they could move to Maryland or Virginia. Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Miro: I'm upset. And I'm not even an American.
If I was your one Representative in the House I would be very Loud and Insistant until someone listened.
You just don't go about depriving random groups people of votes, it's unconstitutional (except not in America).
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DC does have those Taxation without Representation liscense plates. Huh. That sounds oddly familiar....
Part of the problem is that while DC is the seat of power, most Washingtonians have no direct say in what happens on Capitol Hill or elsewhere. It's kinda sad; for instance, when the World Bank heads down there to do whatever they do, protesters come from far and wide saying that they indend to block the streets "shut the city down"-- forgetting that there are people who live there.
There was that plan in the House of Delegates here a looooong time ago to "adopt" DC. I'm not sure what happened to it, though.
quote:Also, if all else fails, and residents are hell-bound for their "state" right, they could move to Maryland or Virginia.
This kind of crap really pisses me off. I don't think you quite realize the severity of the issue here. Congress has ultimate control of basically everything that happens in DC. I'm not just talking about security issues and such. This affects schools, parks, taxes, everything. And yet those of use directly affected by the decisions that Congress makes have no say in what those decisions are. The injustice is mind-boggling.
I think part of the problem is that most people don't realize that there is more to DC than just the monuments or the federal government. There's an actual city there, with people who have the same types of everyday concerns as any other American. Imagine if New York City were in the same situation that DC is in. It's not that outlandish an idea, Congress did sit there in the 18th century. Should the people of New York City have to move to New Jersey just to be able to experience the realities of democracy and self-government that are supposed to be the foundation of the United States?
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Miro, I fully understand the situation. I've lived in this area for 20 years, and every five years we get to hear about the push for D.C. to become a state. The same arguments are presented again and again. I'd imagine that what becomes frustrating is that the core issues are never fully addressed. It's not even like this is a new situation. The law governing the rule of D.C. has been in effect since 1801, and there are sound reasons that explain why the Constitution was interpreted this way.
If you truly want to make any progress toward more self-rule, then you have to abandon the false idea of statehood and begin looking at other ways of making progress, because the reality of the situation is that our existing structure allows no room for interpretation.
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