Some is wrong with this. Here we have the governor of California, and a big supporter of personal responsibility explaining his use of steroids away. There is something wrong with hiding behind the excuse that the Doctor said it was okay and that it was legal. The man has made his money thanks to steroid use, and I'm not convinced that he has stopped.
I don't care what kind of message it sends to the kids. I'm worried more about what kind of message it sends to me. Why is his use appropriate? Is it? I don't like countenancing cheating. I don't like the casual use of drugs. And I don't like his success abolishing all rightful claims of his impropriety.
There is something wrong with his use because it is directly linked to his fame and success. For some reason, I wouldn't have cared nearly as much if it were recreational use of some other drug. But this is something more sinister and pervasive.
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So he should have known it was wrong anyways? When he was taking them people didn't know the things they do now. He also didn't take them recklessly in that setting, he made sure to do it with a doctor. This sounds like just another partisan attack to me.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:So he should have known it was wrong anyways? When he was taking them people didn't know the things they do now. He also didn't take them recklessly in that setting, he made sure to do it with a doctor. This sounds like just another partisan attack to me.
People did know, it's just that Congress was a decade behind in legislating. It's the equivalent of identity theft or virus creation in the mid-ninties. People knew it was wrong, they just hadn't gotten around to making laws against it. As to the doctor, you can find a doctor who will say anything.
This kind of stuff is important. Not the taking of drugs, but excuses and explanations I think further the idea that anything is appropriate as long as it results in winning.
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Wasn't his steroid use many years ago? I can certainly imagine steroids looking new and exciting and completely OK to take when their effects on athletes was first discovered. Hey, doctors advised nervous patients to smoke once upon a time. I'd have to know a lot more historical information before I could condemn him for it.
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:People knew it was wrong, they just hadn't gotten around to making laws against it.
No, some people said it was wrong. No different than the chemicals you could order online before the July 2004 busts, and are still not specifically scheduled. Get your kicks in before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote: Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has acknowledged using steroids during his years as a champion body builder, said he doesn't regret using the performance-enhancing drugs.
When were his body-building years? In the 60s and 70s, right? And as I think about it, the German Olympic swimming team won a whole bunch of medals in 1976 (11 of 13?), same time period, generally speaking.
I'm not saying what he did was right, but in the context of time and location, I think it becomes somewhat more understandable.
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He said he had no regrets, and if it was legal and the other athletes were doing it and it made him who he is today, then why would he regret it?
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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I think, as govinator of california, Arnie has some responsibility. Role model, etc, I know it's been said. Really though, even if he doen'st regret using steroids he should take a firmer stance against them. Coming from a man with a body/proffesion like him it might actually mean something to some people, even if he doens't mean it.
Am I encouraging hypocracy here? Eh, maybe. Some hypocracy is needed I think, especially in government. Seriously.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Why? High-ranking politicians, not to mention former actor/bodybuilders, can lie all they want about how all the pot, coke, and steroids they took hurt them, or at least never did anything for them, but minors are not stupid. Look at their positions and careers. Look at the Governator's physical stature. Sure, kids are stupid, but they are not that stupid.
Edit: and Irami, in that case I am even more straight-laced than I thought!
Um, does the fact that he has had heart problems convince you. I'm sure his wife would kill him if he was still on them as well.
A> He never said he would do it again. B> "But he said he had no problem with athletes taking nutritional supplements and other legal substances" C> Get off his back about his past. Let me dig in your closet. I'm sure you have absolutely no skeletons.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Nope, when the Governor was my age, he was still doped up. And any mistakes I've made were mistakes. You aren't going hear me give any jive about how it's okay because it's legal and everyone else is doing it.
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I think that our friend the govenatior is taking the correct stance. He was elected on the promise that he'd fix California's problems and he'd never lie to them.... He's telling the truth, and for that I admire him, even if his movies were terrible.
And speaking as a former athlete who did take performance enhancing drugs, I'd like take this opportunity to point out that when done under a doctor's care, It's very safe and very easy to do it legally.
Oh and I just want to take this opportunity to tell Irami to stop ranting about a topic he has no experience with.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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There is no clear cut moral misdeed here. He was within the law and practicing the use of this substance under the guidance of a physician. Your attempt to paint him as a doper is made only in light of subsequent findings. Many of us take vitamins daily to improve our body and our mind. Would you retroactively villify us if future doctors decried their use?
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Mar 2004
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He's telling the truth, and the truth is that drugs work, and he is famous, and it's too bad that the young body builders weren't training in the seventies and eighties because they were huge.
The problem with depending the propriety of his action on whether the steroid use was legal is that what is legal and illegal is an accidental inclination of congress. I think that most people understand this. Nothing becomes better or worse because it is legal or illegal. Maybe it's just my world and understanding of American institutions, but legal doesn't mean too much to me, and it's not an excuse to do something that's wrong.
In not regretting his steroid use, he is tacitly admitting that if they were legal today, he'd still use them, if he wanted to. It's a blithe approval of performance enhancing drugs. And maybe that's how he feels, but that's where we are going to part.
quote: Many of us take vitamins daily to improve our body and our mind. Would you retroactively villify us if future doctors decried their use?
punwit, I'm not going to quarrel with vitamins, but I do believe that there is something sinister about all of these drug commercials on televison. It's not that I believe that they should be banned by some legal fiat, but I'm disturbed by the alarming rate at which people are willing to mess with their body's chemistry, especially considering the way these "medicines" are developed and tested.
There is also something a little wicked about deciding what is right or wrong by a measure of congress. It's placing personal responsibility on some governmental agency where it doesn't belong. I think he knew that they the steroids are dodgy, I think he didn't care because everyone else was doing it and he wanted to be the best. I think he'd do it again, under the same circumstances, I just don't believe that these are responsible priorities. In other words, I don't need some future doctor's approval to retroactively vilify you, I'll vilify you right now.
quote: I think he knew that they the steroids are dodgy, I think he didn't care because everyone else was doing it and he wanted to be the best. I think he'd do it again, under the same circumstances,
If you can supply something besides your gut to substantiate these claims I might be willing to buy your arguement. Nothing in your link provided evidence that he knew he was skirting the law or any moral line.
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Irami, There are a lot of things that have been found to be not good for you over the years, but were once considered safe and even at times healthy.
I don't see him saying or implying that he would do the same thing today, because even then he was using them under doctors supervision. Keep in mind that in todays day and age there has been a lot more research about the damage they can do, but back then the negitive effects were not widly known.
JT, tell the pro wreslers who's livers are failing and who are sterile how safe steroid use is under doctors orders....or tell the families of teh kids who died last year how much safer thier kids would ahve been if the team doctor could have legaly dispenced them. That just isn't true.
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I don't see that it is a big deal. At the time it was legal, and he was a weight lifter...so it is not surprising that he not only did steriods, and says that he doesn't think he did anything wrong.
If he was saying that people should use them NOW, then I would have a problem with it. I think his comments about women are far more disturbing than his comments about steriod use.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
My understanding is that although not a legally controlled substance, exogenous steroids were generally accepted to be antithetical to sportmanship. Since there was no way to test for them, they were not on the IOC's initial list of banned substances (issued in 1968). A reliable test was introduced in 1974, and they were added to the IOC's list shortly thereafter. Most international sports federations either followed the IOC regulations or had their own lists of banned substances, including steroids.
Schwarzenegger's bodybuilding under the influence of steroids was not done in the context of "gee whiz, it's all new, nobody says it is wrong, anyway." Long, long, long before exogenous steroids were added to the US FDA's list of controlled substances (in 1991), they were considered unethical and unsportmanslike for training, despite their widespread use. This was a matter of general contention as well as the specific policy of international sports federations.
quote:WADA was set up as a foundation under the initiative of the IOC with the support and participation of intergovernmental organizations, governments, public authorities and other public and private bodies fighting against doping in sport. The agency consists of equal representatives from the Olympic Movement and public authorities.
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I think a large frustration in competitive sports is performance-enhancing anything. As in, what's the line? Some people will do anything for a win, even if it ruins the spirit of the competition. On the other hand, if you are a competitive athlete, and so many others are using performance enhancing anything, then you're put on the downside in the competition.
I even run into this in fencing. There's new timings out for the boxes that keep score for the electric fencing. Basically, the tip of your weapon has to stay depressed for a certain number of milliseconds on your opponent's target area. This time frame has gotten longer (and a few milliseconds in a HUGE deal in a sport this fast). A new tactic for keeping tips from sticking long enough on the target area is the use of chest plates. They're protective plastic plates meant to protect the chest. Yet now men are wearing them between the jacket and lame (the conductive vest that marks the target area) so that tips will slide off. Very recently, this practice was made against the rules, but people will still do anything to get that chest plate as close to the outside of their clothing as possible, so tips will slide off.
For ME, it takes the fun out of it. I won't do it myself (women can do this as well, but have been wearing plates to keep their breasts safe for awhile and it's required by the fencing governing associations), I use the other type of protectors.
But this puts me and others who won't do that at a distinct advantage. Yet, for us, it isn't worth it to win, because it's against the spirit of the sport.
However, if you're extremely competitive and will do anything for the win...then anything legal is fair game. I fault Arnold for his steroid use and I don't. I don't know. I think I'm bitter at the moment anyway, because I watched my tip slide off someone's chest three times in a row yesterday.
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When I was teaching, grade inflation became a similar issue for me. I didn't want to artificially inflate grades, but as my students would be compared against others with inflated grades, well ... it was a vicious cycle. Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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