quote: Engineer 'unable' to vouch for Big Dig safety Tuesday, March 15, 2005 Posted: 7:56 AM EST (1256 GMT) BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- The independent engineering specialist who led an investigation into leaks at the $14.6 billion Big Dig project says he can no longer vouch for the safety of its tunnels.
"I am now unable to express an opinion as to the safety of the I-93 portion of the Central Artery," Jack K. Lemley wrote in the March 9 letter to the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority, a copy of which was obtained by The Boston Globe.
The project -- formally called the Central Artery and Third Harbor Tunnel project -- buried Interstate 93 underneath downtown Boston and connected the Massachusetts Turnpike to Logan International Airport.
Lemley told lawmakers in November that there was no public safety risk to people driving through the tunnels.
In the latest letter, he said new information has surfaced that more than 40 large sections of tunnel wall contain construction defects and that fireproofing material has been damaged by leaks.
He also wrote that project officials have blocked him from obtaining records and data related to the new problems. Lemley added that his change in position also was driven by the apparent lack of any formal plan by Big Dig officials to address the leak problems.
posted
Yikes! We watched one of those "engineering disasters" shows on the History Channel the other day, and I have to say, it gave me a newfound respect for Civil Engineers. There was stuff I'd never heard of, like a walkway collapse in the lobby of a hotel caused by some really stupid decisions, and an insane fire in Ohio caused by a petroleum leak because no one really understood what the limits of the container were... I'm sure this stuff is covered in day one of Civil Engineering school, but man, that's scary! I really take for granted the safety of the structures around me. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
"engineering disaster" has a specific meaning. Like buildings and bridges collapsing, due to poor design under ordinary circumstances. The Twin Towers collapse is sort of classified as one, even though a plane of that size crashing into it wasn't "ordinary circumstances".
Civil engineering students in particular are assigned to study they major collapses of the past century because normally each time there was a collapse it ushered in a new wave of engineering design.
posted
Also my impression is that Chicago is as mafia-ridden as New Jersey but even the less honest Chicaco inspectors that I'm aware of wouldn't pass on the defective concrete that they are describing in the Big Dig.
quote:He also wrote that project officials have blocked him from obtaining records and data related to the new problems. Lemley added that his change in position also was driven by the apparent lack of any formal plan by Big Dig officials to address the leak problems.
Oh, good. Don't think about the problem and it'll go away. (to the officials, not Lemley)
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Yeah, in all of my non-professional wisdom, I'd have a hard time blaming the engineers involved in building the WTC. Especially because, according to one of the specials I saw on it, they actually DID design it to withstand the force of a jet impact. They just didn't plan on jets getting bigger and carrying more fuel.
After watching that show, now, every time I splice a wire together or nail something to the wall, I think to myself, I wonder if THIS is going to be a failure that makes the nightly news?
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
In country they only have about 5 engineering disasters that they can hash out, from the past century in this country. I've heard them all, first from my father and now from Steve... so when you think about it in those terms, you don't have to worry too much Zeguma.
If you go globally there are a few more to add, but most of the time it is because inferior materials were used, though there was the gassing of a bunch of people in India, when a chemical plant had problems.
posted
Let me just say that the media's representation of the situation is very one-sided. The "big-dig" is a one of a kind project that was spec'd out in 1985. Show me anything that accurately models financial fluctuations over a 20 year period, and compare it against actual costs on this project. The initial bid was $2.6 billion, and final costs are predicted to be $14.6 billion. Again, let me point out the 20 year gap between start and finish. This was no simple road extension or tunnel, this was:
• 161 lane miles of highway in a 7.5 mile corridor, about half in tunnels, including four major highway interchanges; • installed 26,000 linear feet of steel-reinforced concrete; • the largest tunnel jacking operation in the world; • the largest use of soil mixing in the U.S.; • the greatest use of slurry walls in the U.S.; • the first concrete immersed highway tunnel in the U.S.; • built the widest cable-stayed bridge in the world and the first hybrid and asymmetrical design in the United States; • used enough reinforcing steel to wrap a one-inch steel bar around the earth at the equator; • built a seven-building ventilation system, one of the largest highway ventilation systems in the world; • added 150 acres of new parks and open space; • moved 29 miles of gas, electric, telephone, sewer, water and other utilities, operated by 31 separate companies; • coordinated 118 separate construction contracts; • a safety record that is the envy of the industry.
Plus, the hype surrounding leaks has been blown out of proportion. The leaks that are being addressed now were built into the original project plan. What most of the articles fail to mention is that chasing down leaks is part of every construction project that occurs below the water table. Also, since construction is incomplete some roof sections have yet to be installed. There are open holes where beams that used to support the old elevated artery once stood. Manholes and utility conduits are not yet sealed. Covering or sealing such pathways is a scheduled part of finishing the project.
I know that it's too much to ask for fair and balanced news in our age of flash over substance, but have all of our journalists lost their credibility, or is it just the ones who get printed?
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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So tell us then, why is this guy blowing the whistle? And why won't the documents get released? I'm quite sure that the majority of engineers and inspectors at the Big Dig are honest. But all it takes is one crooked one to turn a blind eye, and a couple of shoddy sections and you could get a chain reaction problem in spite of overdesign.
posted
A task force consisting of Bechtel, PB, and the Commonwealth was formed in 2000 and has monitored all leaks occuring on the project. If a Commonwealth task force refuses to hand over documents to a Commonwealth investigator, then it sounds like Massachusetts has an internal problem that is not truly representative of the high-quality caliber of this project.
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
It wasn't the impact that knocked down the towers. It was the burning jet fuel.
But this goes along with the assumption the plane would be landing, and thus, not have much fuel aboard. The planes the hijackers used were Boston-California planes. They were LOADED with fuel for the trans-continental flight.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I believe part of the problem in the WTC was that the asbestos fireproofing on the structural members stopped before the top of the building, since it was made illegal during its construction. Other less effective fire retardants were used on the upper floors. This is significantly less of an issue on newer building as alternative fire retardants have had a while to advance.
I could be wrong on this...
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
The point is, that we *don't* want the big dig to become an engineering disaster. Disasters are *bad* no matter how much we learn from them.
And I'm on the side of spend more money if it needs to be spent regardless of the yammering, because it's better to spend the money than have people, lots of people, die.
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(to the officials, not Lemley)
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