posted
I'm disappointed in my state. To say the least. Except for Douglas County, which some of you know as the location of Lawrence and the University of Kansas. 18th state to pass the amendment, and supporters here claim to be gearing up for a federal amendment.
posted
I knew that I knew someone in Lawrence! the name came up at work today. (although I have to admit it was Farmgirl and Ivygirl that came to mind when we were having the discussion)
And what is this constitutional amendment that's being voted on?
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§ 16. Marriage (a) The marriage contract is to be considered in law as a civil contract. Marriage shall be constituted by one man and one woman only. All other marriages are declared to be contrary to the public policy of this state and are void.
(b) No relationship, other than a marriage, shall be recognized by the state as entitling the parties to the rights or incidents of marriage.
posted
I thought section (b) would swing some of the moderate voters the other way. Guess not. The answer from Kansas is not just yes, but HELL yes. (70% vs. 30%).
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posted
Sorry, I should be more sensitive for the people who live in Kansas.
I'm in favor of gay rights and I don't like this amendment anymore than you do. My last comment was just a stupid way of saying that the voters in your state really didn't feel ambiguous about this issue.
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Most voters appeared to brush aside critics’ arguments that the amendment could have unexpected consequences, such as preventing companies from offering health benefits to employees’ partners, gay or heterosexual....
“The way marriage is in the Bible, God says it’s between man and woman,” said Sharon Kent, 58, of the Kansas City suburb of Mission. “I don’t have a problem with gays being together, living together, but I have a problem with them getting married.”
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The Rev. Terry Fox, senior pastor at Wichita’s Immanuel Baptist Church and a leader of the campaign for the proposal, said he expects opponents to challenge the amendment in court, though he is confident it will stand up.
“We always felt like if Kansans were given an opportunity to vote, they would vote strongly to protect marriage and defend marriage in the way it has traditionally been defined,” Fox said. “The real winner here was marriage itself.”
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Kansas became the 18th state with such a prohibition in its constitution. Alabama, South Dakota and Tennessee plan elections next year on constitutional bans, and proposals are pending in 13 other states, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
Meanwhile, Connecticut’s Senate was prepared to vote Wednesday on a bill that would allow same-sex couples to enter into civil unions. The bill has broad support in both Democratic-controlled chambers of the Legislature.
[ April 06, 2005, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
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posted
Meanwhile, thinking people still wait for someone to explain what meaning the phrase "Defense of Marriage" has beyond being an anti-gay buzzword.
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posted
That bench looks comfy. Mind if I join you?
For all the people who have talked about gay marriage being wrong, not one that I have ever seen has offered a coherent explanation of how allowing homosexuals to marry each other would do a whit of damage to heterosexual marriage.
I value marriage a great deal, and I'd like to see it taken more seriously in this country. But what about those drive-through wedding chapels? Why isn't anyone campaigning to have those abolished if they want to "defend" marriage? It seems to me that two heterosexual morons getting married the night they met because they were drunk in Vegas does considerably more harm to marriage as an institution than allowing two homosexuals who have been together for years and are truly in love with each other would.
posted
"not one that I have ever seen has offered a coherent explanation of how allowing homosexuals to marry each other would do a whit of damage to heterosexual marriage."
On the other side, there's a "Thank you, OSC" thread on this topic in which Geoff explains his belief that keeping homosexual marriage distinct from heterosexual marriage promotes a unique minority without confusing kids by presenting them with too many equivalent sexual lifestyle options.
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I'm actually really curious about how our Kansas residents voted on this one.
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I'm looking at the link on accesskansas.org, where I can view each county's preliminary results. Like I noted before, Douglas County has a large college student population in the form of the Univeristy of Kansas, and therefore, I'm not surprised it's the lone "no" county. Preliminary results show the split was (yes-no) 37%-63%. Almost the exact opposite of the statewide ratio of 70%-30%.
Riley County, home to Kansas State University, voted "yes," on a ratio of 54%-46%. There's probably several factors at work there. KSU isn't as tolerant as I would like to think. In fact, when I attended a few years ago, I remember a time when members of the student government walked out rather than listen to an activity fund request from the Queer-Straight Alliance. KSU is also much smaller than KU. The entire population of KSU is about 20,000. Riley County alone is 45,000. Students can have a large say, but they obviously didn't in this case.
Some other interesting numbers, from my perspective: My home county, Phillips, voted YES, 83%-17%. I'm not surprised... Saline county, where I attended college, voted YES, only 56%-44%. Given how conservative that town tends to be, I'm surprised. Lots of the rural counties voted by a ratio of almost 9-10 for this amendment.
posted
Which, depending on your politics, goes to show that rural counties are hopelessly backward or the last stalwart defenders of good ol' fashioned morality.
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posted
Gotta head to work, sorry. Tom, I'm not sure if it's not a mixture of the two.
I will say this, they're only backward in certain ways. Tolerance of other ethnicities is the standard, for example. I'm not sure some of it isn't just lip service, but it's the impression I get.
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posted
Sorry to kind of derail, but I love my hometown.
And his wife was my kindergarten teacher and they live up the street. Hooray for small-town politics (Also interesting from that election is that the incumbent's, Katie Maloney's, brother-in-law is my dentist.)
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Kayla, Cheri(my wife) wants to move somewhere more cosmopolitan/liberal. She constantly complains that our community is full of stubborn rednecks. I have a more circumspect view of the town I grew up in. I like it here very much and I've learned to accept the benefits as well as the negatives of living in a small town that is overflowing with devout churchgoers . She did mention that she wouldn't mind Lawrence.
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quote:“We always felt like if Kansans were given an opportunity to vote, they would vote strongly to protect marriage and defend marriage in the way it has traditionally been defined,” Fox said. “The real winner here was marriage itself.”
Just like America was the real winner last November, right?
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posted
punwit, tell her that Lawrence is just a larger version of the rest of Kansas. I mean, unless she plans on living in the dorms. I've been wanting to move to a real city since I moved here. Actually, I never really moved here. I came to visit and just haven't left yet.
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posted
As a "long time resident" of Kansas (even if I die in 5 seconds, I cannot be a native), I really like the prairie and open beauty of Kansas.
But recently I have been feeling like a Heinlein novel title, if you catch my drift.
Our legislators spend weeks with gay marriage and pour energy into that while the state's school finance is declared unconstitional by the state supreme court.
May I quote Goofy here without being too sarcastic.
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quote: Goody, I don't think Tstorm actually lives in Lawrence. (Do you T? And if so, why haven't we met?)
Actually, I live in Mission, KS, a suburb of Kansas City, in Johnson County. (This is listed in my profile.) So, I live really close to Lawrence. Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Hmm. You live a half hour from me, punwit lives a half hour from me, Caleb lives not too far from you. tabithecat also lives nearby, I believe. We should all get together sometime.
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quote:The marriage contract is to be considered in law as a civil contract.
This right here makes explicit the reason I oppose prohibitions on civil same sex marriage. Not because I think Marriage is merely a civil contract, but because the civil institution has been gradually reduced to that status in a way that divorces it from what Marriage, the institution, really is. And lots of heterosexuals have taken advantage of that reduction as it's happened.
Marriage as recognized by the state is not the same as what most people consider Marriage, the institution. So making the former more inclusive doesn't threaten the latter.
Edit: and any infringment on the private right to contract suggested by these amendments goes well beyond "preserving marriage." If any of them are intepreted to ban employee benefits for domestic partners and are upheld as constitutional, we will have clearly moved into active persecution, not merely defense of something.
You know, I would think that if one wanted to move, Florida would be the place to do it. What we need to do is get non-conservatives from states that the gap is huge in, to move to states where the gap is very small. Like say, from Kansas (70% conservative, 30% liberal) to Florida (pretty much, 50-50 right now, with the difference going to the conservatives.)
That's a fun map to play with. If more democrats moved to Florida, Bush wouldn't be president right now. Though, I'm still up for the United States of Canada/Jesusland split. Except then I'd be forced to move and I hate moving. With a passion.
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Especially moving to Florida. Apologies to Floridians, but I just don't want to live there. Maybe some other 50-50 state? One with seasons and fewer people than Florida.
I hate moving too. I have done enough.
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Screechowl likes cold weather, if I recall. Wisconsin was a close vote, right? Do they have seasons up there?
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Follow up to original post, I read an article in the Kansas City Star today. (I won't link to it because the Star requires registration.) One of the promoters of this amendment said something along the lines of, "We've seen that Kansas has an appetite for 'conservative causes' so we're going to pursue other issues as well." So, Hatrack, I have finally found my need for a vomitting smiley. kacard?
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posted
I'd love to have a Kansas Clump gathering, but I'd prefer that we not call it KansasCon(servative). Not only does that sound too much like KamaCon it also seems repetitive.
posted
Please don't misinterpret me. I can't denigrate folks that believe differently than I do. I would certainly welcome and cherish any Jatraquero that wished to congregate regardless of their political or religious affiliation. I was merely attempting to be witty. I just shared a ride with a couple of wonderful women that I would miss severely if we tried to exclude folks based on their views.
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"Especially moving to Florida. Apologies to Floridians, but I just don't want to live there. Maybe some other 50-50 state?"
Ohio and Wisconsin are both nicer than Kansas, and both are swing states, too. Ohio needs more help.
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I hope my sarcasm did not hide my real meaning, which is my disappointment at the passage of that legislation. That's the trouble with me an sarcasm.
I meant nothing at all against getting some Kansans together, especially such fine Hobbit folk as we have here.
Posts: 440 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Ohio and Wisconsin are both nicer than Kansas, and both are swing states, too. Ohio needs more help.
Ouch! Right to the heart. My wife is from Ohio and has no desire to go back. Too many people. On the other hand, we would not be as outnumbered politically.
Well, off to school function.
Posts: 440 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Anyway, there are 277 people per square mile in Ohio. Only 33 in Kansas. So, Colorado is only 41. It wouldn't have won the dems the election, but it would have tied it.
And screech, it's not like you have to know everyone that lives there. You just ignore them. That's the beauty of the city. You have no idea how often I long for that. I can't even mow the lawn or rake the leaves without 15 people stopping to tell me something stupid. I feel like putting up signs that say "Don't talk to crazy lady in yard!" You know, like they have at the zoo "Don't feed the animals!"
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posted
If you don't want to call it KansasCon, there's always ConKansas. Sounds sort of Spanish, and is reminiscent of everyone's favorite power company.
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My wife lived for a short time in Toledo and then Kettering, outside Dayton.
One thing about Kansas, like the South, unless you are born here the best you can hope to be is a "long time resident." Posts: 440 | Registered: Oct 2001
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